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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 05-21-2006, 12:06 AM
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Exclamation The Official OFF-LIST List is HERE!

This accumulation of vendors and models was never intended to be complete.
The critical 'lists' are the ones shown in the CA AW ID FLOWCHART - if the markings on the weapon you are examining or considering buying are not on the lists in the Flowchart, then that weapon is presumptively legal in that aspect.

// Librarian

We've seen the Roberti-Roos '89 list. We've seen the Kasler list, but what we haven't seen yet is the California Legal OFF-LIST List!

Well...

HERE IT IS! (pdf updated to include AK Series!)
Currently not hosted anywhere...

PLEASE NOTE: This list has not been updated since 02-15-2008.

AK-47 Series are also listed in post #12 of this thread.

The California OFF-List Guide

AR-15 Series Weapons

ALEXANDER ARMS*
.50 BEOWOLF
6.5 GRENDEL

AMEETEC ARMS
WM-15

AMERICAN SPIRIT ARMS
ASA-10

ARES DEFENSE SYSTEMS, INC.*
ARES-16

BARRETT*
M468

BUSHMASTER
CARBON 15
J-15
BAR-10

CAVALRY ARMS
MKII

CENTURY ARMS*
C-15

CMMG
MOD4-SA

COLT*
CAR-A3 H-BAR ELITE
CARBINE

COMPASS LAKE ENGINEERING
MR-15

DALPHON

DANIEL DEFENSE
DD-15

DOUBLESTAR
STAR-15

DPMS
SINGLE SHOT
LR-308
A-15

DSARMS
ZM4

ESSENTIAL ARMS
J-15-F

FRANKFORD ARSENAL
XM-177
FAR-15

FULTON ARMORY
FAR-15

GLOBAL TACTICAL
GT-AR15

GRENADIER PRECISION
M4 A3
M4 COMMANDO
M4 SOC

GUNSMOKE ENTERPRISES
M-15 MATCH

HESSE ARMS
HAR-25

HIGH STANDARD
HSA-15

JP ENTERPRISES, INC.*
JP-15
CTR-02

LAR MANUFACTURING
GRIZZLY-15

LAUER CUSTOM WEAPONRY
LCW-15

LEITNER-WISE*

LEWIS MACHINE AND TOOL*
DEFENDER 2000

LRB INDUSTRIES, LLC
M15SA

MEGA MACHINE SHOP
GATOR

MGI

NOVESKE
N4

PATRIOT ORDINANCE FACTORY
P-415
P-416

RATWORX
M-7

ROCK RIVER ARMS
LAR-15

SABRE DEFENSE
X16/15A3
XR-15

SMITH AND WESSON*
M&P-15
M&P-15T

SOCOM MANUFACTURING
DIAMOND
BLACK DIAMOND

SPECIAL WEAPONS
AR47

SPIKE’S TACTICAL
ST15

STINGER ARMS

STAG ARMS
STAG-15
STAG-6.8

SUN DEVIL
SD15

SUPERIOR ARMS
S-15

TITUSVILLE ARMORY
TA-15

TROY INDUSTRIES INC.*
CQB-SPC

VULCAN ARMS
V-15
CAL1

WILSON TACTICAL LLC.
WT-15

ZM WEAPONS*
LR300

TOTAL RECORDS: 66 (114 including AK-47 Series Weapons)

*Stripped lowers not available without purchase of complete lower or rifle

Please note, many of these companies will NOT deal with Californians.

©2006 xenophobe

Last edited by Librarian; 04-21-2011 at 11:38 AM..
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  #2  
Old 05-21-2006, 12:26 AM
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Now that they're not going to list on Cat 2 we may as well sticky this and get one the AK-47s, G3 clones, and FAL clones as well. Maybe even links to FFLs and manufacturers in there as well.

I'm getting a feeling that what the DOJ is up to will just be a features ban on our fixed mag methods. Following this regulation if they don't choose to open a registration period it will probably not be hard to walk into a court room with their letter that says the Vulcan and the FALs aren't AWs and discuss with a court how they reversed that opinion and declared them AWs.
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  #3  
Old 05-21-2006, 12:32 AM
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I don't know enough about the AK or G3 clones to have compiled a list for each. If someone will do this, I'll add them to my PDF and give credit for the entire section, if someone wants to do that. I won't add credit for individual submission, it would be too tedious...

But I figured this list was necessary. Buy more receivers!!!
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  #4  
Old 05-21-2006, 12:36 AM
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What, no pictures of each model?
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  #5  
Old 05-21-2006, 12:39 AM
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You forgot the DPMS A-15
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  #6  
Old 05-21-2006, 1:02 AM
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Default AK receivers

Not sure of the model #'s but receiver manufacturers and/or completed rifles include:

Ewbanks
EMAK 7.62 x 39

Global trades/Armory
AUSA

ITM
MK99

Robinson Armament
VEPR

Arsenal of Bulgaria
SA M-5
SA M-7

NoDak Spud / D.C. Industries
NDS

Firingline
MLS99

Vulcan Armament
V47

I'm sure there are more but those are the ones I'm familiar with.

Last edited by markymark; 05-21-2006 at 1:57 AM..
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  #7  
Old 05-21-2006, 1:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markymark
Not sure of the model #'s but receiver manufacturers and/or completed rifles include:

Ewbanks
MK99

Global trades/Armory
AUSA

ITM
MK99

Robinson Armament
VEPR

Arsenal of Bulgaria
SA M-5
SA M-7

I'm sure there are more but those are the ones I'm familiar with.

The Ewbanks should read EMAK 7.62 x 39. You also forgot Firingline MLS99, Vulcan armament receivers and the DCI receivers.
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  #8  
Old 05-21-2006, 1:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charliegone
The Ewbanks should read EMAK 7.62 x 39. You also forgot Firingline MLS99, Vulcan armament receivers and the DCI receivers.
Thanks. Edited my post.
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  #9  
Old 05-21-2006, 2:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe
We've seen the Roberti-Roos '89 list. We've seen the Kasler list, but what we haven't seen yet is the California Legal OFF-LIST List!

Well...

HERE IT IS!

http://home.comcast.net/~bartelt1508/OLL-LIST.pdf


The AR-15 OFF-List Guide

AR Series Weapons

ALEXANDER ARMS
.50 BEOWOLF
6.5 GRENDEL

AMEETECH ARMS
WM-15

AMERICAN SPIRIT ARMS
ASA-10

ARES DEFENSE SYSTEMS, INC.
ARES-16

BARRETT
M468

BUSHMASTER
CARBON 15
J-15
BAR-10

CAVALRY ARMS
MKII

CENTURY ARMS
C-15

CMMG
MOD4-SA

COLT
CAR-A3 H-BAR ELITE
CARBINE

COMPASS LAKE ENGINEERING
MR-15

DALPHON

DOUBLESTAR
STAR-15

DPMS
SINGLE SHOT
LR-308
A-15

DSARMS
ZM4

ESSENTIAL ARMS
J-15-F

FRANKFORD ARSENAL
MODEL XM-177
FAR-15

FULTON ARMORY
FAR-15

GLOBAL TACTICAL
GT-AR15

GRENADIER PRECISION
M4 A3
M4 COMMANDO
M4 SOC

GUNSMOKE ENTERPRISES
M-15 MATCH

HESSE ARMS
HAR-25

HIGH STANDARD
HSA-15

JP ENTERPRISES, INC.
JP-15
CTR-02

LAR MANUFACTURING
GRIZZLY-15

LAUER CUSTOM WEAPONRY
LCW-15

LEITNER-WISE

LEWIS MACHINE AND TOOL
DEFENDER 2000

LRB INDUSTRIES, LLC
M15SA

MEGA MACHINE SHOP
GATOR

MGI

NOVESKE
N4

PATRIOT ORDINANCE FACTORY
P-415
P-416

RATWORX
M-7

ROCK RIVER ARMS
LAR-15

SABRE DEFENSE
X16/15A3
XR-15

SMITH AND WESSON
M&P-15
M&P-15T

SOCOM MANUFACTURING
DIAMOND
BLACK DIAMOND

SPECIAL WEAPONS
AR47

SPIKE’S TACTICAL
ST15

STINGER ARMS

STAG ARMS
STAG-15
STAG-6.8

SUN DEVIL
SD15

SUPERIOR ARMS
S-15

TITUSVILLE ARMORY
TA-15

TROY INDUSTRIES INC.
CQB-SPC

VULCAN ARMS
V-15

WILSON TACTICAL LLC.
WT-15

ZM WEAPONS
LR300

TOTAL RECORDS: 64

©2006 XENOPHOBE. THIS DOCUMENT MAY BE FREELY DISTRIBUTED IN ORIGINAL, UNMODIFIED FORM ONLY. OLL-LIST.PDF[/size]

+1 xenophobe

awesome list!! way to go!!
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  #10  
Old 05-21-2006, 7:54 AM
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You forgot pics of the individual receivers for easier identification by LEOs and the general public...
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  #11  
Old 05-21-2006, 11:41 AM
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Looks like we need an:

Calguns Off-List Lower Identification Guide (COLLIG)

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  #12  
Old 05-21-2006, 12:15 PM
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OFFLIST AK47 TYPE RIFLES

ARMORY USA
SSR-85B
SSR-85C
SSR-85-C2

ARSENAL
SA
SAS

DCI
NDS1
NDS2
NDS3
NDS4
NDS5
NDS7
NDS8
NDS9
NDS65
NDSY556
NDSM92

EWBANKS
EMAKM 7.62X39

EUROPEAN AMERICAN ARMORY (EAA-IMPORTER)
SAIGA

FIRING LINE
MLS99

GLOBAL TRADES
AUSA

HUNGARIAN (KBI-IMPORTER)
FEG SA-85M
FEG SA-2000

ITM
MK99

IZHMASH RUSSIAN SVD AND TIGER
MANY IMPORTERS

KREBS
KTR 03S
KTR 035
KTR 03V

MAADI
RPM
RML

NORINCO
BWK-92
NDM-86
MAK 91

OHIO ORDNANCE WORKS
AK47
MK99

OHIO RAPID FIRE
M76 (Mitchell M76 8mm clone)

ROBINSON ARMAMENT (IMPORTER)
MOLOT (MANUFACTURER)

VEPR
VEPR II
VEPR K
SUPER VEPR

ROMANIAN AK's
WASR10
WASR2
WASR3
WASR22
AKT-98
RPKT-98
SAR1
SAR2
SAR3
SSG-97
SSG-2000
CUR2
CUR MKII
PSL FPK DRAGUNOV
SA/Cugir (CAI) AES-10
SA/Cugir (CAI) AES-10B

RUSSIAN AMERICAN ARMORY (RAA-IMPORTER)
SAIGA

VECTOR ARMS
AMD
AK47

VULCAN ARMAMENT
V47-200.2G
V47-200G
V47-210
V47-210.2
V47-210.2G
V47-210G


If you have anything to add, PM me and I'll list it.

Last edited by 69Mach1; 03-13-2009 at 10:52 PM..
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  #13  
Old 05-21-2006, 12:55 PM
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What is the purpose of these lists?
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  #14  
Old 05-21-2006, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA
What is the purpose of these lists?
To give people a one stop reference as to which receivers/rifles are legal to purchase.
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  #15  
Old 05-21-2006, 1:11 PM
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Wow! Someones going to need a BIG safe to collect all of that. Some nice stuff in there.
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  #16  
Old 05-21-2006, 1:41 PM
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Mmhmm....and I saw in another thread or two that we "now officially know that the DOJ is not going to list."


How exactly do we know that?
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  #17  
Old 05-21-2006, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1
OFFLIST AK47 TYPE RIFLES

Does anyone know what's marked on a Global trades receiver?
Bottom (front of magwell):
armory USA
Houston,Tx

Bolt Handle side below trunion rivets:
MOD AUSA
SER# AA XXXX
CAL 762X39
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  #18  
Old 05-21-2006, 3:50 PM
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Man I still twitched a little reading that Xeno
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  #19  
Old 05-21-2006, 5:14 PM
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69Mach1, excellent compilation!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by artherd
Man I still twitched a little reading that Xeno
haha! Yeah, I was twiching after writing that! lmao

Last edited by xenophobe; 05-21-2006 at 5:18 PM..
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  #20  
Old 05-21-2006, 5:25 PM
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Since PWA (all) is an incorrect listing, we should piss off DOJ by importing these
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  #21  
Old 05-21-2006, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA
What is the purpose of these lists?

I would say outside of slapping DOJ - none..... It is quite useless, but feels good...
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  #22  
Old 05-21-2006, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mblat
I would say outside of slapping DOJ - none..... It is quite useless, but feels good...
I disagree.

I think Xeno has the best intentions and is just trying to help the DOJ do their job. You know, just kind of speeding along the process a bit and making sure they don't leave anything off the list.
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  #23  
Old 05-21-2006, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsreeftank
I disagree.

I think Xeno has the best intentions and is just trying to help the DOJ do their job. You know, just kind of speeding along the process a bit and making sure they don't leave anything off the list.
Sometimes I wonder if DOJ has an internal forum. If they did, I can see the hysteria right now; they listed! they listed! Their list is out! (see our May 9 reaction)

Xeno, what are the chances of writing a "memo" (remember not to sign it either)

As usual, fantastic job.
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  #24  
Old 05-21-2006, 10:40 PM
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Well, they stated that they weren't going to list, so it's only appropriate for us to know exactly what we CAN buy. No more "is this legal, is that legal"... well this list is for US.

(...and if it makes the person who was responsible for building a list at DOJ look bad, good for us. And if you hadn't noticed, I'm mocking the Kasler list look and feel )

Oh, and it's kind of neat... over 113 off list receivers are available to us!

Last edited by xenophobe; 05-21-2006 at 10:42 PM..
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  #25  
Old 05-21-2006, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe

(...and if it makes the person who was responsible for building a list at DOJ look bad, good for us. And if you hadn't noticed, I'm mocking the Kasler list look and feel )
You should add some entries like:

Doublestar
(All)

Stag Arms
(All)

...

Great work.
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  #26  
Old 05-21-2006, 11:35 PM
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Default no love for the FALs as usual

IMBEL
FAL
L1A1

DSA
FAL/SA58
L1A1

Century
FAL
L1A1

Entreprise
FAL
L1A1

DCI/NDS
FAL
L1A1

WAC
FAL

Hesse
FAL

And there are probably more that I don't know about, maybe some Argentine receivers? I'm just praying DCI gets some ready before the list actually does come out or I'll be scrambling for some DSAs I guess. Maybe even Entreprise in a pinch.
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  #27  
Old 05-21-2006, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedrickel
IMBEL
And there are probably more that I don't know about, maybe some Argentine receivers? I'm just praying DCI gets some ready before the list actually does come out or I'll be scrambling for some DSAs I guess. Maybe even Entreprise in a pinch.

There's no list to be updated for the FAL or for any other semi-auto rifle out there that's not an AR or AK type rifle. So take your time.
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  #28  
Old 05-21-2006, 11:42 PM
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Wow. Over 1000 views already.
Great work on the list Xenophobe.
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  #29  
Old 05-21-2006, 11:43 PM
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Also, you forgot Tom Sawyer Mfg for the AR list.
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Old 05-22-2006, 12:20 AM
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I haven't decided whether to include non AR or AK Series rifles, because no other type of rifle (FAL, G3, M96, etc...) is considered a 'series' in California, and for the DOJ to ban them, they will need to go through a lengthy and time consuming court add-on, as opposed to AR and AKs which just need to be promulgated through normal regulatory channels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EBWhite
Also, you forgot Tom Sawyer Mfg for the AR list.
Does he even offer his own brand of receiver? I thought all he did was engrave other receivers...
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Old 05-22-2006, 2:04 AM
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No he will produce a receiver with his name on it, however, you get to make the model...he is the maker though...
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  #32  
Old 05-22-2006, 5:36 AM
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Nodak hasn't made the NDS-1 or NDS-2 yet.
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  #33  
Old 05-22-2006, 7:15 AM
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DPMS? Anyone brave enough to DROS those yet?
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  #34  
Old 05-22-2006, 8:30 AM
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If they ever decide to list, all the work has been done for them with the exception of photos.
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Old 05-22-2006, 8:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1
There's no list to be updated for the FAL or for any other semi-auto rifle out there that's not an AR or AK type rifle. So take your time.
Yeah, I know FALs aren't officialy "list-worthy" but I'm pretty sure by now they're coming after all the centerfire self-loading rifles out there, and FALs gotta be the next domino. At least, that's what this detachable/capacity to accept BS indicates to me.
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Old 05-22-2006, 8:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford8N
Nodak hasn't made the NDS-1 or NDS-2 yet.
The NDS-2 is ready for heat-treat and should be ready for shippment shortly afterwards. I suspect the NDS-1 will follow right after. They are already taking orders for the NDS-2 receivers.
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  #37  
Old 05-22-2006, 9:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobrarlc
If they ever decide to list, all the work has been done for them with the exception of photos.


Exactly what I was thinking.
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  #38  
Old 05-22-2006, 9:52 AM
TheMan TheMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedrickel
Yeah, I know FALs aren't officialy "list-worthy" but I'm pretty sure by now they're coming after all the centerfire self-loading rifles out there, and FALs gotta be the next domino. At least, that's what this detachable/capacity to accept BS indicates to me.
But at that point, they wouldn't be listed by make/model. The whole idea behind the detachable BS is that they DON'T want to have to add new stuff to the list.
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  #39  
Old 05-22-2006, 11:43 AM
WeThePeople WeThePeople is offline
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Did someone list Cobb MCR?
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  #40  
Old 05-22-2006, 12:00 PM
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knight_dive knight_dive is offline
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CAVALRY ARMS
MKII
xenophobe[/size][/QUOTE]

Are you sure about the Cav Arms Mk II since the pg is integral to the molding? If anyone has dros'ed one let me know, and please let me know where you can get a Cav Arms MKII receiver with a fixed mag. These are incredible recievers. They're now marketed through Eagle Arms (div. of Armalite) as the Poly-15 also.
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