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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 09-03-2010, 9:16 AM
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Default mp5 clones good or bad?

im interested in getting a mp5 clone and it seems like there are a lot of mixed reviews of them. ive searched around here and found some good info and ive narrowed it down to 2 companies. ati/mke (company that does the gsg-5) and turners fabrication.

turners fabrication seems to do custom one off builds from the ground up. ati is mass produced off the shelf item. the thing i dont get is why the turners is almost $1000 more than the ati. is their build quality really that much better? i havent been able to come across any info that shows the turners product warrants the higher price.

anybody here have a clone from either of the companies or able to shed some light on their products? thanks.


turners fabrication:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct741.aspx

ati/mke:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct864.aspx
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  #2  
Old 09-03-2010, 9:22 AM
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No help for you on this, but everytime I see your avatar ihear
"Look my shneegrows I had a strizoke in my brizain"
In my head, and I laugh hysterically. Thanks for that, people think im crazy.
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  #3  
Old 09-03-2010, 9:23 AM
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Forget the turner fabrications.

The American Tactical Imports is from Turkey, built on genuine HK tooling, so probably of better fit and function. If your looking for a rifle, the ATI MKE AT-A2 is limited to a proprietary 10 round magazine due to import restrictions, but I have seen statements from Atlantic firearms that they can be removed to accept any mp-5 style magazine, but definitely 2x check with them again....4 Da Shorteeeeeeeez!
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Old 09-03-2010, 9:27 AM
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So is that Magazine a 10/30?
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Old 09-03-2010, 9:37 AM
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"I want candy!"

Nah the mag is a 10/10, but the magwell requires modification to accept normal mags.

I myself really like the MKE AT94K pistol.
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Old 09-03-2010, 9:45 AM
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I've only handled one ATI. Very dissapointing in the fit and finish. It was about on par with my cheapo century WASR
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  #7  
Old 09-03-2010, 10:01 AM
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The long and short of it is. . . bad. HK is hard to duplicate. Vector was widely considered one of the "better" mp5 clones and mine has been back to the factory 3x now and has had multiple HK parts installed and it STILL doesn't run 100% I love shooting it, but it's not my SHTF choice if you know what I mean.

Everyone thinks they can build an HK in their garage like an AK. No way!
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  #8  
Old 09-03-2010, 10:26 AM
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so far everyone is confirming all the stuff ive heard everwhere else. hk is very hard to duplicate and get working 100% of the time.

i think it was on hkpro forums that quite a few people have turners rifles and their fit,finish, and function are all perfect from what their saying. everybody seems to be in agreement that ati's fit and finish is lacking.

i seem to be seeing a lot of people with the ati pistols and they are very happy with them. not really finding much about the rifle though. just going to have to do some more research.
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  #9  
Old 09-03-2010, 3:38 PM
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I'm picking my mke ati at-94A2 in 30 min. I'm going to shoot it tomorrow. I'll be back with the skinny tomorrow.
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  #10  
Old 09-03-2010, 3:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdaughg View Post
im interested in getting a mp5 clone and it seems like there are a lot of mixed reviews of them. ive searched around here and found some good info and ive narrowed it down to 2 companies. ati/mke (company that does the gsg-5) and turners fabrication.

turners fabrication seems to do custom one off builds from the ground up. ati is mass produced off the shelf item. the thing i dont get is why the turners is almost $1000 more than the ati. is their build quality really that much better? i havent been able to come across any info that shows the turners product warrants the higher price.

anybody here have a clone from either of the companies or able to shed some light on their products? thanks.


turners fabrication:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct741.aspx

ati/mke:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct864.aspx
Save yerself some dough git the Masterpiece Arms 9mm Carbine. It's numba one in da hood G. I got mines at PRK ARMS.
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  #11  
Old 09-03-2010, 4:15 PM
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Get the ATI. closest thing we can get to a real HK. I'm assuming that you don't plan on using it has a sear host so having a auto carrier block doesn't matter.

And make sure you get the pistol version. Do not get the carbine version unless you want to get stuck with using proprietary 10rd mags.
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  #12  
Old 09-03-2010, 6:25 PM
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Get the ATI. closest thing we can get to a real HK. I'm assuming that you don't plan on using it has a sear host so having a auto carrier block doesn't matter.

And make sure you get the pistol version. Do not get the carbine version unless you want to get stuck with using proprietary 10rd mags.
i really just dont like the pistol version despite all the good things ive read about it.

the special 10rd mags for the carbine is a major deterrent for me though. id much rather just make 10/30's from regular mags. if the proprietary mags were $10/ea then i wouldnt mind so much. i doubt thats the case.

also from my understanding the lower and stock assemblies are a one piece unit so swapping out the stock would be a royal pain.

the benifits of the turners doesnt warrent a $1000 price increase either. i know either way the carbine will have less original hk parts due to 922 compliance.

im definitely looking forward to zero's review of the ati. just might be the deciding factor.

thanks everyone for your input.
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  #13  
Old 09-03-2010, 6:28 PM
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does it HAVE to be an mp5? the rifle caliber offerings seem to be pretty reliable. ive got 2 hk clones in .223 by century, of all people, and they work just great! best $700 i ever spent. twice.
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  #14  
Old 09-03-2010, 7:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sevensix2x51 View Post
does it HAVE to be an mp5? the rifle caliber offerings seem to be pretty reliable. ive got 2 hk clones in .223 by century, of all people, and they work just great! best $700 i ever spent. twice.
its either an mp5 or build another ar15 in 9mm. no matter how i do it im going to be into it for a few bucks when its all said and done. at the moment i have enough ar15 variants so thats why im really leaning towards the mp5.
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  #15  
Old 09-03-2010, 7:14 PM
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hmm.. and its gotta be 9mm? cuz if you have a .45, then theres usually some cool stuff in the member section. if only i were born a rich man...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=331222
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  #16  
Old 09-03-2010, 7:19 PM
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Here is my MKE MP5. Awesome Quality. I just took it apart. Beautiful inside parts. Its a ati 30 round mag that I modded to be notched like the stock mag. I put 2 wooden dowels and epoxied the bottom to make a permanent 10 rounder.


Last edited by zeroescence; 09-03-2010 at 7:21 PM..
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  #17  
Old 09-03-2010, 7:33 PM
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I would think about your long term intentions. I tend to lay out the bucks for something I collect long term and is somewhat rare(like this). If I'm gonna flip it I go cheap. At least your trying to make an educated decision. Good luck.
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  #18  
Old 09-03-2010, 8:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdaughg View Post
i really just dont like the pistol version despite all the good things ive read about it.

the special 10rd mags for the carbine is a major deterrent for me though. id much rather just make 10/30's from regular mags. if the proprietary mags were $10/ea then i wouldnt mind so much. i doubt thats the case.

also from my understanding the lower and stock assemblies are a one piece unit so swapping out the stock would be a royal pain.

the benifits of the turners doesnt warrent a $1000 price increase either. i know either way the carbine will have less original hk parts due to 922 compliance.

im definitely looking forward to zero's review of the ati. just might be the deciding factor.

thanks everyone for your input.
Ok...now I'm curious, what don't you like about the pistol version? It's identical to a regular HK carbine except it takes regular HK style stocks and lowers and magazines. You don't get any of that by going with the carbine version.

what's not to like?

You do realize that they make two types of pistols right? One is the SP89 style(MP5K), and the other is a full size MP5 (HK94) style pistol.
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  #19  
Old 09-03-2010, 10:44 PM
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Ok...now I'm curious, what don't you like about the pistol version? It's identical to a regular HK carbine except it takes regular HK style stocks and lowers and magazines. You don't get any of that by going with the carbine version.

what's not to like?

You do realize that they make two types of pistols right? One is the SP89 style(MP5K), and the other is a full size MP5 (HK94) style pistol.
i want something longer. unless i put a longer barrel on the pistol i cant put a stock on it. plus they just look really funny without a stock. funny looks didnt stop me from building an ar pistol though.

im definitely looking for something to last. i dont plan on selling any of my stuff so i dont mind spending a few buck more for something that will hold up over time. if i can spend $1K less and get the same quality then ill take the cheaper one and not think twice about it.

zero: nice pic. if it works as well as the pistols are supposed to then you should be having a great time tomorrow and ill probably have my new gun picked out.
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:55 PM
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Thanks, I'll fill you in as so as I return home. Wish me luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdaughg View Post
i want something longer. unless i put a longer barrel on the pistol i cant put a stock on it. plus they just look really funny without a stock. funny looks didnt stop me from building an ar pistol though.

im definitely looking for something to last. i dont plan on selling any of my stuff so i dont mind spending a few buck more for something that will hold up over time. if i can spend $1K less and get the same quality then ill take the cheaper one and not think twice about it.

zero: nice pic. if it works as well as the pistols are supposed to then you should be having a great time tomorrow and ill probably have my new gun picked out.
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  #21  
Old 09-04-2010, 4:05 AM
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We have the Vector MP5 rifle and can offer this in a CA Legal format also.


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Old 09-04-2010, 10:38 AM
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Well I have to say it ran flawless. 350 rounds no ftf and no fte. Super dead accurate at 10,20,50,and 110 yards with iron sights. I love my new gun. If I had to do it all over again it would be the same gun purchase from the same company. Tracy rifle and pistol.
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:34 AM
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Here is my MKE MP5. Awesome Quality. I just took it apart. Beautiful inside parts. Its a ati 30 round mag that I modded to be notched like the stock mag. I put 2 wooden dowels and epoxied the bottom to make a permanent 10 rounder.

Nice! More pictures!

Haven't run into/shot any horror story ATI MKE clones yet and haven't run into ATI's that didn't shoot right out of the box. Thought of ways of putting a fake can/shroud on the barrel?

Detailed pics of the magwell differences would be helpful to everyone.
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:38 AM
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the barrel diameter is .435 inch so im having a barrel shroud made by E&L. Its my new favorite gun.

Last edited by zeroescence; 09-07-2010 at 8:33 PM..
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:42 AM
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Heres the magwell. 2 little bars welded in there.


Last edited by zeroescence; 09-04-2010 at 11:54 AM..
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  #26  
Old 09-04-2010, 11:46 AM
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I wonder if Turners Fabrication sells the foregrip from their SP89 K Style 9mm Pistol separately:



It looks a helluva lot better than the stock SP-89 foregrip:




And you don't need to register it as an AOW since it doesn't have the vertical pistol grip of the MP5K:

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Old 09-04-2010, 12:01 PM
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i want something longer. unless i put a longer barrel on the pistol i cant put a stock on it. plus they just look really funny without a stock. funny looks didnt stop me from building an ar pistol though.
That's what I've been trying to tell you. In particular, the FULL SIZE Mp5 pistol made by MKE that ATI offers.

While it's a pistol it already comes with a 16" barrel. So you can drop a standard MP5 stock on there (along with 922r parts) and bam you got yourself a carbine. That's the reason why they imported it with a 16" barrel. So the end user can readily convert to a legal rifle and get around the silly mag blocks and proprietary stock set up.

And of course once you convert it to a rifle you cant' go back to pistol unless you SBR it. But that's not a problem since you wanted a stock on it anyway. Only downside is you have to get your own forend, but it already comes with all the push pins you need.

http://dealer.americantactical.us/products?product=1216

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Last edited by darkest2000; 09-04-2010 at 12:14 PM..
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkest2000 View Post
That's what I've been trying to tell you. In particular, the FULL SIZE Mp5 pistol made by MKE that ATI offers.

While it's a pistol it already comes with a 16" barrel. So you can drop a standard MP5 stock on there (along with 922r parts) and bam you got yourself a carbine. That's the reason why they imported it with a 16" barrel. So the end user can readily convert to a legal rifle and get around the silly mag blocks and proprietary stock set up.

And of course once you convert it to a rifle you cant' go back to pistol unless you SBR it. But that's not a problem since you wanted a stock on it anyway. Only downside is you have to get your own forend, but it already comes with all the push pins you need.

http://dealer.americantactical.us/products?product=1216

Is there a procedure required with the ATF, for converting a pistol into a rifle?
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Old 09-04-2010, 1:17 PM
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nope,you can legally convert a pistol to a rifle (but NOT vice versa). You can't go back to it's pistol form once that's done, and 922r does apply.
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Last edited by darkest2000; 09-04-2010 at 1:22 PM..
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Old 09-04-2010, 6:11 PM
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Is there a procedure required with the ATF, for converting a pistol into a rifle?

you must replace one foreign part and add five US parts to make it 922r compliant. since it has a 16 inch barrel, you can legally convert it into a carbine, but once you do so it must stay a carbine forever. if you put that stock endcap on it ,then it is considered a SBR.
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Old 09-04-2010, 6:30 PM
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you must replace one foreign part and add five US parts to make it 922r compliant. since it has a 16 inch barrel, you can legally convert it into a carbine, but once you do so it must stay a carbine forever. if you put that stock endcap on it ,then it is considered a SBR.
The number of US parts doesnt matter for 922(r) compliance. Just dont have more than 10 foreign ones.
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Old 09-07-2010, 8:37 PM
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Nice! More pictures!

Haven't run into/shot any horror story ATI MKE clones yet and haven't run into ATI's that didn't shoot right out of the box. Thought of ways of putting a fake can/shroud on the barrel?

Detailed pics of the magwell differences would be helpful to everyone.
Hers a pic with the new barrel shroud from E&L. I love the new look.

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Old 09-07-2010, 8:41 PM
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very nice. im going to stop by my ffl this week and see what its going to run me to get one transferred. thanks for the review of it.
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Old 09-08-2010, 4:51 AM
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very nice. im going to stop by my ffl this week and see what its going to run me to get one transferred. thanks for the review of it.
Hey no problems. Glad your getting a great reliable firearm. Good luck and let us know how you like it.
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  #35  
Old 09-08-2010, 8:24 AM
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Just out of curiosity since it is a non rostered pistol format, how are you guys getting them here and making them single shots? I would love to have one of these and turn it into a rifle format.
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:47 AM
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Just out of curiosity since it is a non rostered pistol format, how are you guys getting them here and making them single shots? I would love to have one of these and turn it into a rifle format.
I think you need an out of state middleman to convert it before it can be shipped to your Kali FFL.
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:49 AM
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The number of US parts doesnt matter for 922(r) compliance. Just dont have more than 10 foreign ones.
not too familiar with this MKE clone, does it have more than 10 foreign parts?
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  #38  
Old 09-08-2010, 12:36 PM
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You can have the pistol go to your ffl, just have them lock the mag and do a single shot conversion prior to Dros.
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Old 09-08-2010, 1:02 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't it need to be brought into the state as an existing single shot, rather than being converted once here, thus requiring a middle man?
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Old 09-08-2010, 2:19 PM
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Mine works flawless love it.

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