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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-11-2006, 11:08 PM
Escalado Escalado is offline
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Default How important is Eotech/ iron sight co-witness?

At the moment I have an Eotech sight on my flattop AR. I just purchsed a Vltor CASV fore-end and unbenounced to me learned that the Eotech will not co-witness with the iron sights becasue the CASV will raise the Eotech .5" . My question is how important is the co-witness in regards to accuracy? From what I have read the advantage of it is in the case of a sight failure and an easy way to zero the sight? Are there any other advantages because I want to use both..My plan is to use the Eotech and also run clip up sights...Thanks

Last edited by Escalado; 05-11-2006 at 11:27 PM..
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  #2  
Old 05-12-2006, 12:00 AM
Jicko Jicko is offline
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Co-witness is just a preference thing. If you are not setup for co-witness, you can always remove your EOtech when it fail and use your iron-sights(BUIS, if you have them installed, and zeroed prior to installation of your EOTech)

It is a GOOD idea to at least have BUIS installed, so that you can still use your rifle when your optics fail. But if this rifle is not your work rifle, and it is just your fun rifle, then, even skipping BUIS is ok (really depending on how much you think you will ever need to DEPEND your life on this rifle....).

Afteall, your rifle is NOT a battle-rifle, it is a recreational rifle.
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  #3  
Old 05-12-2006, 12:19 AM
xYourLocalAR15x xYourLocalAR15x is offline
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I never use co-witness. It just makes everything confusing. Why would you even need the rear sight to aim with the eotech? when your head isnt perfectly center with the eotech, the red sight is cocked to the side of the screen. The BUIS will just get in the way.

I adjusted my eotech to shoot out to 200 yards. A lot of people said you can only shoot up to 75 yards with it.... Seems like they were wrong?

I was shooting at the 2nd berm at angeles shooting range. maybe thats 150 yards?
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  #4  
Old 05-12-2006, 12:46 AM
Jicko Jicko is offline
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I zero my EOTech for 300 meters w/ official US Army EoTech M4 "Zero Target".

http://www.eotech-inc.com/documents/...LBS_Target.pdf

http://www.eotech-inc.com/documents/...ire_Target.pdf


Quote:
Originally Posted by xYourLocalAR15x
A lot of people said you can only shoot up to 75 yards with it.... Seems like they were wrong?
Are they mounting their EOTechs on their AIRSOFTs?(then they are not wrong!)

I have no problem hitting man-sized targets out at 200 or 300 meters consistantly.

Last edited by Jicko; 05-12-2006 at 12:50 AM..
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2006, 6:53 AM
PIRATE14 PIRATE14 is offline
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As mentioned CO-WITNESS or not too........

It's personal preference......and what style of shooting you like to do.

Aimpoint, EOTECH.....almost any dot sight is good out to about 300 yds......you can use it out farther but you have to practice your hold over.

Hold over......how high you put the sight above the intended target to compensate for bullet drop/flight path/wind.....etc.
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  #6  
Old 05-12-2006, 8:56 AM
JWC6 JWC6 is offline
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Some people actually prefer that the eotech sits a little higher, so the front sight post appears lower when viewing throught the eotech.

Larue tactical actually makes a dedicated mount that does this.

Personally, my eotech does co-witness with my FS and my ARMS 40L, but I think I would prefer the eo to be a little higher....
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  #7  
Old 05-12-2006, 9:57 AM
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why should one co-witness...cause it's so tacticool to do so.
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  #8  
Old 05-12-2006, 9:59 AM
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Aimpoint/EOtech is for quick target aqcuisition(sp) so that is why you hear 75 yards. I have shot with my Aimpoint to 200 yards with no problem. On a paper target it will cover the whole target but on a man sized target it will do just fine.

Personally I keep my BUIS flipped down when using the red dot. But I can flip it up to co witness if needed should the site fail. I don't think the red dot is designed to be used at more than 1-200 yards but that is my thought. I have an ACOG for anything over 200.
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  #9  
Old 05-13-2006, 4:01 PM
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I use the RRA dominator. Its an Eotech mount with built in rear iron sights. Its made specifically for the Eotech and co-witnesses perfect with the front sight post, absolutely no modifications, just mount, sight in and shoot.
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  #10  
Old 07-05-2008, 7:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escalado View Post
At the moment I have an Eotech sight on my flattop AR. I just purchsed a Vltor CASV fore-end and unbenounced to me learned that the Eotech will not co-witness with the iron sights becasue the CASV will raise the Eotech .5" . My question is how important is the co-witness in regards to accuracy? From what I have read the advantage of it is in the case of a sight failure and an easy way to zero the sight? Are there any other advantages because I want to use both..My plan is to use the Eotech and also run clip up sights...Thanks
Have the same problem... and this maybe a solution...

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/YHM-2...r%20yhm226.htm

http://www.uws.com/PICATINNY/RailsandMounts.html

haha.. this thread is over two years old? damn I guess I should read up on this stuff before buying a CAS-V
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  #11  
Old 09-09-2008, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTKrockeTT View Post
why should one co-witness...cause it's so tacticool to do so.
To me, its vital to co-witness as you have a ready means to verify your scopes zero.

Twice I've discovered my duty weapon sight was way off (one was armorers fault, other was loose mount). Never would of caught errors unless had BUIS co-witness to reference.

Plus, its so tacticool...
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  #12  
Old 09-09-2008, 11:00 PM
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It's important, Optics fail. You may not have time to remove your optic and use your Irons, before being bitten by a Zombie. Super important!
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  #13  
Old 09-09-2008, 11:06 PM
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I setup my BUIS in order for me to practice a good cheek weld. Some people dont realize that red dots have some parallax so a good weld fixes that.
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  #14  
Old 09-09-2008, 11:07 PM
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  #15  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:27 AM
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man... a lot of people really don't understand how co-witness works.... maybe it's better now, but it was pretty clear some of those people early in this thread didn't get it.

Maybe someday I'll make a little movie or series of pics to explain... I think the part that people miss is the concept that the dot moves as your cheekweld/eyeline moves.
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  #16  
Old 10-28-2008, 7:55 PM
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Bringing up a month old thread because I've always wondered about this too...

Is the purpose of a co-witness used to back up a failed holosight (HWS) and to use the HWS as a rear sight to align with the front sight to get you on target slightly faster/more accurately?

I thought the whole point of a HWS is so that its super fast on target. I can see how a HWS would be faster to align to the front sight but I figure its even faster (maybe less accurate) just to have the HWS by itself (with no front sight post in the way)
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  #17  
Old 10-28-2008, 7:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magmaster View Post
Aimpoint/EOtech is for quick target aqcuisition(sp) so that is why you hear 75 yards. I have shot with my Aimpoint to 200 yards with no problem. On a paper target it will cover the whole target but on a man sized target it will do just fine.

Personally I keep my BUIS flipped down when using the red dot. But I can flip it up to co witness if needed should the site fail. I don't think the red dot is designed to be used at more than 1-200 yards but that is my thought. I have an ACOG for anything over 200.
Nah, the EOTech reticle is 1MOA. It's better than the iron sights, and probably better than your rifle and ammo. It's not really meant to be adjusted for windage and elevation in the field from shot to shot, like the rear sight on an AR, but that's the only disadvantage.
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  #18  
Old 10-28-2008, 8:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelogic View Post
I setup my BUIS in order for me to practice a good cheek weld. Some people dont realize that red dots have some parallax so a good weld fixes that.
Have you looked through an Eotech or HWS? If I understand parallax correctly, HWS have very little if any parallax
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  #19  
Old 10-28-2008, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8toytruck View Post
Have you looked through an Eotech or HWS? If I understand parallax correctly, HWS have very little if any parallax
EOTech and Aimpoint seem to have next to none. They have very little at across-the-room distance (where it honestly doesn't matter), and only get better the farther out you shoot. IIRC, Aimpoint claims zero parallax at 50 yards.

After using them in action rifle shoots, I can tell you that at 50 yards and under, cheek weld really doesn't matter with an Aimpoint or EOTech.
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  #20  
Old 10-28-2008, 11:45 PM
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co-witness is a failsafe to a dead battery, damaged electronics, etc. It allows fast transitions in an emergency.

If you're building a close range rifle (which something with an EOTech or Aimpoint generally is), then in critical situations an optic failing can cost lives.

For range use it's not necessary.

Bottom 1/3 is the most useful. It allows you to prop your head slightly up above the FSB and see the dot float unobstructed in the middle of the FOV. With absolute co-witness the FSB will be in the middle of your FOV when the dot's in the middle. However, some guys prefer the absolute cowitness, especially with an Aimpoint, as you can use the circle of the aimpoint as a large ghost ring sight and still make hits.

The Aimpoint Micro series is the way to go - excellent battery life, compact, lightweight, fast and easy. It's also substantially more rugged than the EOTech, which is seeing a schlew of issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by V8toytruck View Post
Bringing up a month old thread because I've always wondered about this too...

Is the purpose of a co-witness used to back up a failed holosight (HWS) and to use the HWS as a rear sight to align with the front sight to get you on target slightly faster/more accurately?

I thought the whole point of a HWS is so that its super fast on target. I can see how a HWS would be faster to align to the front sight but I figure its even faster (maybe less accurate) just to have the HWS by itself (with no front sight post in the way)
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  #21  
Old 11-10-2008, 5:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
Maybe someday I'll make a little movie or series of pics to explain... I think the part that people miss is the concept that the dot moves as your cheekweld/eyeline moves.
Wes, I for one, would certainly appreciate something like this. Not being a "rifle guy" I need all the help I can get!
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:44 AM
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so with a 1/3 cowitness are you not supposed to have your "normal" cheekweld to the stock? because if you did, then you'd be absolutely cowitnessing with a sort of limited field of view.
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