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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 08-18-2010, 7:31 PM
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Default Unloaded Locked Gun on School grounds?

What is the legality of having a firearm on school grounds if it is locked in a container and sealed in a backpack or in the car? Is that okay or not?

Does it matter if it's a college campus or a K-12? I'd like to be able to keep my firearm locked in a box in the back of my car or preferably in my backpack locked up in a case. I often go to the range right after and I'd like to skip the trip back home to get it as it's pretty out of the way. I DEFINITELY don't want to break any laws, any clarification would be great. Cal Guns wiki says CCW and Unloaded Locked Concealed Carry is fine but I've heard otherwise
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  #2  
Old 08-18-2010, 7:35 PM
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this is the text of the CA GFSZ law:

Quote:
626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) shall not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful.
(2) The firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container
or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
This section shall not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in
accordance with state law.
see subdivision C section (2).

But if you are a student the Code of Student conduct will apply to you.
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Old 08-18-2010, 7:36 PM
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If you keep it locked up where no one can see it, keep your mouth shut about having it, and don't do anything that would allow cops to search your car, you're good to go. Then you don't have to worry about the legalities.
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Old 08-18-2010, 8:00 PM
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In zones, unloaded locked-in-a-box is OK.

On campus - k-whatever - you need either CCW or permission.

That's why I don't have any car guns - my vehicles to to schools a lot.
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Old 08-18-2010, 9:45 PM
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Thank you for the clarification gentlemen.

I was under the impression that even with a CCW, carrying on school grounds was a no go. I believe a lot of counties have that as a provision on the license?
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Old 08-19-2010, 6:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveyourmile View Post
Thank you for the clarification gentlemen.

I was under the impression that even with a CCW, carrying on school grounds was a no go. I believe a lot of counties have that as a provision on the license?
CCW is a stated exemption from the zones/campus prohibition. 626.9(l)

Sacramento County makes that restriction for school zones (including campuses), I believe; I think I recall hearing about other jurisdictions with similar rules.

But those rules would get your CCW revoked; there would be no crime under state law.
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  #7  
Old 08-19-2010, 7:00 AM
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If you have a Sacramento CCW with that prohibition and your travel involves you frequently going on school grounds and your Good Cause extends to those times, you should ask Sacramento SD for a waiver on that restriction. Our information is that this will usually be granted.

Presumably, if this restriction is added by other departments, the same would be true for them.
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  #8  
Old 08-19-2010, 9:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveyourmile View Post
Thank you for the clarification gentlemen.

I was under the impression that even with a CCW, carrying on school grounds was a no go. I believe a lot of counties have that as a provision on the license?
Correct - at least for Tulare Co.

In the "Restrictions" (If any) section of the CCW permit, "Never carry a weapon on to any school campus or school property"
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
CCW is a stated exemption from the zones/campus prohibition. 626.9(l)

Sacramento County makes that restriction for school zones (including campuses), I believe; I think I recall hearing about other jurisdictions with similar rules.

But those rules would get your CCW revoked; there would be no crime under state law.
If the statement is printed on the CCW stating that you cannot carry within 1,000 feet of school property, then the CCW is invalid in the school zone. Carrying in a school zone is only exempt if you have a valid CCW.
Looks to me like carrying in a GFSZ in this case would definitely violate 626.9.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:04 AM
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Even if you leave the gun at home, be sure you don't have ammo with you if you go onto school grounds. From 12316:

Quote:
Unless it is with the written permission of the school
district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school
authority, no person shall carry ammunition or reloaded ammunition
onto school grounds...
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by GrizzlyGuy View Post
Even if you leave the gun at home, be sure you don't have ammo with you if you go onto school grounds. From 12316:
That is simply retarded. There are multiple school zones between my house and Big 5. How am I supposed to purchase ammo and bring it home now?
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:08 AM
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That is simply retarded. There are multiple school zones between my house and Big 5. How am I supposed to purchase ammo and bring it home now?
No problem, 12316 only applies if you go on school grounds. Traveling through the school zone is fine.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:08 AM
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I think this falls under the dead hooker in the trunk is okay as long as you don't have a broken tail light or something?
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by GrizzlyGuy View Post
No problem, 12316 only applies if you go on school grounds. Traveling through the school zone is fine.
Ah... Ok... I thought for a minute you had ruined my whole day.

Good to know I am ok to transport in that manner.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
If the statement is printed on the CCW stating that you cannot carry within 1,000 feet of school property, then the CCW is invalid in the school zone. Carrying in a school zone is only exempt if you have a valid CCW.
Looks to me like carrying in a GFSZ in this case would definitely violate 626.9.
CAL. PEN. CODE 626.9 : California Code - Section 626.9:

"(l)This section does not apply...to a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4..."

I always thought you were good to go. I do not have my CCW yet I never knew that. Thank you for posting that as others may not know as well.
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Old 08-19-2010, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
If the statement is printed on the CCW stating that you cannot carry within 1,000 feet of school property, then the CCW is invalid in the school zone. Carrying in a school zone is only exempt if you have a valid CCW.
Looks to me like carrying in a GFSZ in this case would definitely violate 626.9.
Y'know, (the generic) we have kicked this idea around here a few times before, and I'm not convinced that's right.

My thinking is that until the CCW is revoked, there is no crime committed; carrying in violation of the stated restrictions carries just the penalty of revocation.

However, I certainly am not aware of any case law on the point, so you may be correct.
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Old 08-19-2010, 8:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Y'know, (the generic) we have kicked this idea around here a few times before, and I'm not convinced that's right.

My thinking is that until the CCW is revoked, there is no crime committed; carrying in violation of the stated restrictions carries just the penalty of revocation.

However, I certainly am not aware of any case law on the point, so you may be correct.
I'm with Deco - breaking a printed restriction invalidates the license and subjects the holder to the same potential prosecution that someone without a license has.

Reality is that this is extremely unlikely - but I think it could stick if the DA was vindictive enough. I would guess that the DAs most likely to prosecute this sort of thing are in the same jursidictions that have very low issuance rates. Then there's the whole 'problem' of getting 'caught' in the first place by a CCW holder violating a written restriction. It becomes a needle in a haystack....
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Old 08-19-2010, 8:22 PM
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No firearm is allowed on a state university campus unless you have direct permission from the campus police department.
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Old 08-19-2010, 8:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Y'know, (the generic) we have kicked this idea around here a few times before, and I'm not convinced that's right.

My thinking is that until the CCW is revoked, there is no crime committed; carrying in violation of the stated restrictions carries just the penalty of revocation.

However, I certainly am not aware of any case law on the point, so you may be correct.
Most holders Ive spoke with belive this to be true. They claim their right to protect themselves doesnt stop on the fringe of the school zone and are willing to bring a case if need be. Worst case scenario, loss of license.
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Old 08-19-2010, 9:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
CCW is a stated exemption from the zones/campus prohibition. 626.9(l)

Sacramento County makes that restriction for school zones (including campuses), I believe; I think I recall hearing about other jurisdictions with similar rules.

But those rules would get your CCW revoked; there would be no crime under state law.

This may sound like a stretch, but I'd seriously like to know. If you are ccw'ing while driving past a school, and you get pulled over for a routine thing, is there a possible problem legally if you are within 1000 feet?
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Old 08-19-2010, 9:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveyourmile View Post
Thank you for the clarification gentlemen.

I was under the impression that even with a CCW, carrying on school grounds was a no go. I believe a lot of counties have that as a provision on the license?
My CCW has actual school grounds listed as a no-no. But that is at the discretion of the issuing agency.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CJSdrftFlat View Post
No firearm is allowed on a state university campus unless you have direct permission from the campus police department.
I'm sure they want you to believe that, but 626.9(l) says differently for CCW holders (excluding the discussion about issuer-provided restrictions).

Students who may carry might be expelled; employees who may carry might be fired; but we 'public' should merely be asked to leave, under penalty of trespassing charges.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalMama View Post
This may sound like a stretch, but I'd seriously like to know. If you are ccw'ing while driving past a school, and you get pulled over for a routine thing, is there a possible problem legally if you are within 1000 feet?
There shouldn't be, but there is that unresolved issue of issuer-restrictions that might be a problem. If your CCW does not have such a restriction, that conduct ought to be safe.
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