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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 08-18-2010, 2:34 PM
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Default CGF Nordyke Amicus Brief - Ban limits supply - has no crime effect

Today we filed this Amicus brief in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in Nordyke v. King. We show that there has been significant decline in access to acquire firearms while the Gun Show Ban has done nothing to decrease crime in Alameda County.

This was a HUGE Calguns team project. I'm going to forget people we need to thank, but first in the "way above and beyond the call category:

Pat Iampietro – cartography
Dan Todd – crime analysis
Ben Henslin – research and data formatting
Brandon Combs - a bit of everything
Andrew Mendez – data entry and formatting
John Simutis (librarian) – on-site ca. state library research
Bill Bierman – on-site data gathering, multiple Alameda Co. libraries
Jacob Rascon – grassroots coordinator
Watchman – web research
Jason Davis - legal support, editing, filing

Additionally, the following Calgunners made big contributions:

Chaz Konkle – web research & data entry
Ke6guj – research
Matt Crouse – collaboration
anthonysmanifesto – scout @ Sacto
Ivan Peña – collaboration & fact check
Josh Berger – collaboration & fact check
Liz Smith – data gathering
Iron Pegasus – web research
Jaymz – web research, calls
2009_gunner – web research
Connor P Price – web research
botsdots – web research
exposed – web research
cbn620 – web research

More about the brief in the next post.

-Gene
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Old 08-18-2010, 2:36 PM
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In this brief we believe that a picture is worth 1000 words so I'll let these speak for themselves.







When you see a cryptic post about phone books... well this is the kind of thing we can do with this army of davids.

-Gene
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Old 08-18-2010, 2:38 PM
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Cool to see the end result of everyone coming together.
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  #4  
Old 08-18-2010, 2:42 PM
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Phenomenally done!
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  #5  
Old 08-18-2010, 2:42 PM
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fan-freaken-tastic gooood work.
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  #6  
Old 08-18-2010, 2:49 PM
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Out ****in standing
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Old 08-18-2010, 2:50 PM
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Awesome stuff - Thank you everyone -
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  #8  
Old 08-18-2010, 2:54 PM
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That comparison of funstore locations between 1990 and 2009 just makes me sad.

But otherwise great job by all involved, huge team effort!
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Old 08-18-2010, 2:54 PM
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I've been a bit out of the fight for the last several weeks with Liz's illness & passing, but I am unbelievably proud of this intense, QUALITY, joint effort.
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Old 08-18-2010, 2:55 PM
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This is OUTSTANDING! Love to see the finished product! Great work, and thanks!
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Old 08-18-2010, 2:57 PM
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Awesome. Bravo to you guys.
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Old 08-18-2010, 3:00 PM
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I have to say that from beginning to end, this community stepped up and delivered.

To those of you who contributed and worked alongside us in the often tedious work this brief required, my deepest thanks. It's an honor to serve alongside such an amazing team of passionate and versatile advocates.

Pat, Dan, Ben and Andrew, there's not much that could be said of your efforts that would do them justice. You gentlemen were simply and utterly extraordinary. Gene, you left yourself out as is your nature, but everyone, his substantial work on this brief cannot be overlooked.

All, be proud of your achievements. This is only the beginning.
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  #13  
Old 08-18-2010, 3:00 PM
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This is really excellent.

The only comment I was going to make was that it's not clear whether or not the "yellow pages" studies accounted for general attrition from the yellow pages, since the internet has largely taken over the duties previously held by the yellow pages. However, the drop in gun stores listed in the yellow pages is so precipitous that it surely overwhelms the general yellow pages attrition rate.

The amicus brief was a real pleasure to read, as usual. It was clear, concise, and to the point. Enough so that if the judge rules against us in the face of that brief, it can hardly be due to anything other than unmitigated bias.
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Old 08-18-2010, 3:02 PM
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good work everyone
-bb
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  #15  
Old 08-18-2010, 3:02 PM
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Short, to the point, and conclusively shows the rational used by Alameda County to ban said gun-shows is complete cow plop.

What can I say but
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Old 08-18-2010, 3:03 PM
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Is that chart murders, or murders with firearms?
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  #17  
Old 08-18-2010, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
I've been a bit out of the fight for the last several weeks with Liz's illness & passing


You have my heartfelt condolences, sir. That just sucks.
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  #18  
Old 08-18-2010, 3:21 PM
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What an honor to be a part of this community!

And to think, that this group of unpaid enthusiasts can collaborate to create such an amazing work of art---it's humbling.

The other side has to dangle "pro-bono" hours and the promise of lucrative municipal contracts to get lawyers to do the kind of work Calgunners do for love of liberty.

How do they ever think that they can win?
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  #19  
Old 08-18-2010, 3:24 PM
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Thanks to all those who are on the list for contributing to what could be a favorable ruling, as well as the Counsel here for making it happen!

Erik.
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  #20  
Old 08-18-2010, 3:25 PM
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Amazing how the raw data was turned into such a useful presentation. Alameda will fail to show that a scrutiny standard justifies their ban.
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  #21  
Old 08-18-2010, 3:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
I have to say that from beginning to end, this community stepped up and delivered.

To those of you who contributed and worked alongside us in the often tedious work this brief required, my deepest thanks. It's an honor to serve alongside such an amazing team of passionate and versatile advocates.

Pat, Dan, Ben and Andrew, there's not much that could be said of your efforts that would do them justice. You gentlemen were simply and utterly extraordinary. Gene, you left yourself out as is your nature, but everyone, his substantial work on this brief cannot be overlooked.

All, be proud of your achievements. This is only the beginning.
Well said Brandon. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of it, and the CGF community. I look forward to our chats at 3 in the morning. Now I shall sit and wait with a cigar and stiff drink, and await the outcome .
Thank you everyone who has stepped up to help out.
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Old 08-18-2010, 3:38 PM
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The graph on page 18 makes it actually look like ending gun shows is the cause of Alameda's murder problem!
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  #23  
Old 08-18-2010, 4:04 PM
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I can see my house on that map!

Great work!
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Old 08-18-2010, 4:06 PM
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Nice work!!!!
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Old 08-18-2010, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdberger View Post
What an honor to be a part of this community!

And to think, that this group of unpaid enthusiasts can collaborate to create such an amazing work of art---it's humbling.

The other side has to dangle "pro-bono" hours and the promise of lucrative municipal contracts to get lawyers to do the kind of work Calgunners do for love of liberty.

How do they ever think that they can win?
+1000
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Old 08-18-2010, 4:44 PM
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Nice niche amicus brief.

Congratulations on a job well-done.

I wonder though if the yellow pages have experienced an across-the-board decline in advertisers with the increasing popularity of the internet.

If I was your opponent, I would attempt to discredit the premise of your survey. I would try to find gun dealers who didn't advertise in the yellow pages that were the subject of your survey.

Anyway, let not very good be the enemy of perfect.
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Old 08-18-2010, 4:50 PM
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After reading this thread, and for a thousand other good reasons, I am now a paid contributor of Calguns. You guys rock!
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Old 08-18-2010, 5:32 PM
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great work guys.
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  #29  
Old 08-18-2010, 5:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shotgun Man View Post
Nice niche amicus brief.

Congratulations on a job well-done.

I wonder though if the yellow pages have experienced an across-the-board decline in advertisers with the increasing popularity of the internet.

If I was your opponent, I would attempt to discredit the premise of your survey. I would try to find gun dealers who didn't advertise in the yellow pages that were the subject of your survey.

Anyway, let not very good be the enemy of perfect.
It should be fairly easy to cross check the list of dealers in the earlier yellow pages and see how many of them still exist/advertise on the internet today. Equally, to see how many advertise on the internet that are not in the later Yellow Pages. Maybe it is too late to bring that into play though.

Presumably though, the dealer list was made from the single line entries and not just from larger adverts. I certainly know of no dealer around here that does not have at least one line in the Yellow Pages, even if they don't pay for larger ads.
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Old 08-18-2010, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
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It should be fairly easy to cross check the list of dealers in the earlier yellow pages and see how many of them still exist/advertise on the internet today. Equally, to see how many advertise on the internet that are not in the later Yellow Pages. Maybe it is too late to bring that into play though.

Presumably though, the dealer list was made from the single line entries and not just from larger adverts. I certainly know of no dealer around here that does not have at least one line in the Yellow Pages, even if they don't pay for larger ads.
We ignored the "Adverts" and were using the single line listings without undercounting when there was an inline "advert." We did do a sanity check on reality as compared to the yellow pages - especially for 2009. Also, back in 1990 there is no argument that the yellow pages were the defacto local guide.

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Old 08-18-2010, 6:17 PM
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Great work guys! Can't wait to see the results of this.
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Old 08-18-2010, 6:58 PM
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From my clients and me, thanks for the the hard work. Great Brief.

It is great to see such spontaneous pubic spirit.
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Old 08-18-2010, 7:04 PM
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Quote:
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From my client and me, thanks for the the hard work. Great Brief.

It is great to see such spontaneous pubic spirit.
Aw, we just want to see you get paid.

7x57
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Old 08-18-2010, 7:17 PM
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I'm glad my phone books went towards something far more lofty than the recycling center.
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Old 08-18-2010, 7:25 PM
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Thanks to all you hard working Patriots.

CalGuns is Awesome!
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  #36  
Old 08-18-2010, 7:29 PM
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This brief is a perfect dovetail into the CRPAF amici argument that there is no evidence on behalf of the county's position, and counterpoints it with well researched and on point evidence to the contrary of the county's position.

Brilliant... counsel and the members who were able to provide data are to be congratulated.

Bravo Zulu.
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Old 08-18-2010, 7:47 PM
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Holy ****, you guys are INSANE!
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Old 08-18-2010, 9:11 PM
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Holy ****, you guys are INSANE!
QFT -you can say that again! I was a few hours late in offering to help with a couple of the tasks and the response was "already got it covered". We really have a freaking fantastic core of dedicated gunnies who pull out all the stops when it's time.

Outstanding work folks - this brief cuts right a very important social point.

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Old 08-18-2010, 9:23 PM
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Quote:
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I'm glad my phone books went towards something far more lofty than the recycling center.
They most certainly did.
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Old 08-18-2010, 9:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Lex Arma View Post
From my clients and me, thanks for the the hard work. Great Brief.

It is great to see such spontaneous pubic spirit.
If anything I have contributed has helped the Nordykes in any way it was truly my honor to help in the fight they are leading and funding for our right..
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Coyote Point Armory
341 Beach Road
Burlingame CA 94010
650-315-2210
http://CoyotePointArmory.com
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