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  #1  
Old 08-15-2010, 10:15 PM
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Default Draco questions

Well I did it and ordered a Draco (Drako?) from peach state guns. I was going to buy another Saiga 5.45 but none of our suppliers have any in stock, oh well...

Anyway Im planning on going 100% mall ninja on this pistol, down to the single point sling, optic, laser, Krink brake/can, etc.

In order to fulfill this vision of tacticoolness I need an ultimac setup that works with the Draco. Does such a thing exist? I intend to use the ultimac/primary arms gen 2 red dot.

And where are you guys getting cheap 7.62x39?

Thanks, Im sure Ill have more questions about this the closer I get to having it.
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  #2  
Old 08-16-2010, 4:21 AM
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AFAIK...
None of the Ultimaks fit the Draco.
Some people have shortend (cut/grind) Ultimaks to fit on the Draco, so you can try that route.

I went with a Midwest Industries universial AK rail to mount my Primary Arms Micro-Dot.
No mods were required, just followed the instructions, very easy to install and works well.
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  #3  
Old 08-16-2010, 5:07 AM
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Are the irons visible through that setup?
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Old 08-16-2010, 5:11 AM
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Congrats on the Draco. I think I saw a 5.45 at newfrontierarmory.com
I just ordered an arsenal from them. They're great to work with. J&R sports over in Livermore is accepting the transfer, I've been dealing with Joe. He has also been a great help. Plus he gave me a calguns member discount.
Just my two cents.
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Old 08-16-2010, 6:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
Are the irons visible through that setup?
Unfortunately, no.
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Old 08-16-2010, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
... Im planning on going 100% mall ninja on this pistol, down to the single point sling, optic, laser, Krink brake/can, etc.

I
100% mall ninja is the only way to go on this pistol.

7.62 ammo: http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produc...62x39-fmj-ammo
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  #7  
Old 08-16-2010, 3:32 PM
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http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/990.php
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  #8  
Old 08-16-2010, 6:46 PM
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...Draco en route!

Last edited by C.W.M.V.; 08-28-2010 at 10:51 PM..
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  #9  
Old 08-16-2010, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
So now I need an inexpensive transfer to accept these in the greater fresno area...any ideas?
Check with PRK Arms in Fresno?
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  #10  
Old 08-16-2010, 11:09 PM
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As a last resort maybe. Last I saw they charged $100 for the transfer on pistols. Ill drive a ways to save cash!
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
As a last resort maybe. Last I saw they charged $100 for the transfer on pistols. Ill drive a ways to save cash!
You do understand an FFL can charge anything they want for an out of state transfer?

From my short time down there, black rifle friendly FFL's are few and far between and an AK pistol transfer is gonna be really tough.
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  #12  
Old 08-16-2010, 11:18 PM
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Yes I do, but as a consumer its my job to find the best deal. Got to shop around!
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2010, 8:36 PM
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Well A&A is taking the transfer for it so Ill be doing the 4473 for it next week. Back on topic...
Pretty much decided on putting this on the front end...

http://www.usmachinegun.com/proddetail.php?prod=FS-AK03

and an ACE or similar stock on the rear. Still trying to find a write up on adapting an ultimac to this pistol though.
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  #14  
Old 08-21-2010, 8:41 PM
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Nice pistols guys! I have a quick question, if you moved to a free state, could you put a stock on these pistols and register it as an SBR?
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Old 08-22-2010, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
Well A&A is taking the transfer for it so Ill be doing the 4473 for it next week. Back on topic...
Pretty much decided on putting this on the front end...

http://www.usmachinegun.com/proddetail.php?prod=FS-AK03

and an ACE or similar stock on the rear. Still trying to find a write up on adapting an ultimac to this pistol though.
Are you going to turn your Draco into a rifle?
If so, you will have to permanetly install the muzzle attachment to give it a minimum 16" barrel length and you'll have to make sure the OAL is 30" or greater.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jak77 View Post
Nice pistols guys! I have a quick question, if you moved to a free state, could you put a stock on these pistols and register it as an SBR?
Yes. However, you will need to get BATFE approval for a SBR prior to installing a shoulder stock. Once you get your $200 tax stamp, you can legally install a shoulder stock.
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Last edited by Quiet; 08-22-2010 at 2:30 AM..
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  #16  
Old 08-22-2010, 4:23 AM
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Yes, bound to become a rifle. With the extension on the front and a pinned stock it will meet those requirements. Although I have considered contacting batf to start the SBR paperwork.
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  #17  
Old 08-22-2010, 11:34 AM
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Good to know! thanks! Hopefully one day I can live in a state where my freedoms arent restricted. How are you starting the SBR paperwork in cali CWMV?
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  #18  
Old 08-22-2010, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
Yes, bound to become a rifle. With the extension on the front and a pinned stock it will meet those requirements. Although I have considered contacting batf to start the SBR paperwork.
Prior to getting BATFE approval, you will need CA DOJ BOF approval for a Dangerous Weapons Permit (SBR).

BATFE will not approve the transfer/making of a SBR without having a valid Dangerous Weapons Permit from the CA DOJ BOF.

The Dangerous Weapons Permit requires a "good cause" statement.
If you are not working as a propmaster for the movie industry, you have a near impossible chance of getting approved.

If by the grace of God you get approved for a Dangerous Weapons Permit; you have to pay CA DOJ a yearly fee, have to register all the vehicles the SBR will be transported in, have to register all the locations where the SBR will be stored and are subject to yearly inspection audits by CA DOJ BOF. Transporting the SBR in a non-registered vehicle or storing the SBR in a non-registered location, is grounds to have your Dangerous Weapons Permit revoked and SBR confiscated.
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  #19  
Old 08-22-2010, 11:28 PM
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Uh...ok. Not a big deal, never said I was going the SBR route, just considering it. Still going with a barrel extension.
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  #20  
Old 08-22-2010, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
Uh...ok. Not a big deal, never said I was going the SBR route, just considering it. Still going with a barrel extension.
When you go the pistol to rifle route, don't forget to permanetly install the muzzle extension prior to installing the shoulder stock.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BATFE NFA Handbook
The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver
soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over.
Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.
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  #21  
Old 08-23-2010, 7:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jak77 View Post
Nice pistols guys! I have a quick question, if you moved to a free state, could you put a stock on these pistols and register it as an SBR?
Yes - but it's the other way 'round. You must have the tax stamp in hand before installing a stock. That's my plan (eventually). In the meantime, while I'm stuck here in CA, I'm planning to do the same as C.W.M.V. is contemplating - permanently install a muzzle device to extend the barrel to 16", then a stock to convert it into a carbine. It'll be easy to remove the muzzle device when the time comes.
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:26 PM
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Maybe this is a dumb question, but with plenty of cheap AK's around, why spend the money on a specialized AK pistol (the Draco) just to turn it into a rifle?
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  #23  
Old 08-23-2010, 12:28 PM
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dracos are kind of cheap
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  #24  
Old 08-23-2010, 1:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift Justice View Post
Maybe this is a dumb question, but with plenty of cheap AK's around, why spend the money on a specialized AK pistol (the Draco) just to turn it into a rifle?
Had to try an AK pistol just to see what it was like. Already have a RAW AK, so no worries if it didn't work out. After having it a while, it looks like a very good base for a SBR when I escape CA, so no loss on the investment.

Oh, yeah... also, because we can!
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Old 08-23-2010, 2:36 PM
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These work best as they are with a laser mounted on it preferably a tri beam here is my project so far



going to add a single point slint too
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Old 08-23-2010, 3:05 PM
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cut mine down from stock with a hack saw and used a dremel to open up the tube enough

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  #27  
Old 08-23-2010, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpyoldretiredcop View Post
Had to try an AK pistol just to see what it was like. Already have a RAW AK, so no worries if it didn't work out. After having it a while, it looks like a very good base for a SBR when I escape CA, so no loss on the investment.

Oh, yeah... also, because we can!
Amen to all of that. For me mostly because it looks cool.
This


Plus this


=Cool little carbine.

Last edited by C.W.M.V.; 08-23-2010 at 3:46 PM..
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  #28  
Old 08-23-2010, 3:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
Anyway Im planning on going 100% mall ninja on this pistol, down to the single point sling, optic, laser, Krink brake/can, etc.

In order to fulfill this vision of tacticoolness I need an ultimac setup that works with the Draco. Does such a thing exist? I intend to use the ultimac/primary arms gen 2 red dot.

And where are you guys getting cheap 7.62x39?
I like your style, here is my custom brake, green lazor and rad-dot.
I cut the rail from a UTG setup, it is very solid and for $46 looks hella super awesome.

I think ammoman.com is pretty cheap right now... $219/1000rds

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  #29  
Old 08-23-2010, 8:24 PM
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Ok anyone know where I can find an inexpensive VZ58 folding stock? Check out the black SBR here...


Last edited by C.W.M.V.; 08-23-2010 at 8:35 PM..
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Old 08-23-2010, 8:45 PM
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Cheap 7.62x39?

For bulk try:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct887.aspx

For onez, twoz try Cope's Dist;

http://www.copesdistributing.net/pro...oducts_id=2016

Yes, it is corrosive, but with proper care it's no big deal and goes "BANG" every time.

Congrats on the Draco! Lots of fun...

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  #31  
Old 08-24-2010, 10:22 PM
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http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...dir=18|830|852

Same price, but a hundred more rounds. Shipping to my zip was $50.
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  #32  
Old 08-26-2010, 12:22 PM
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I just bought the Primary Arms Gen 7 red dot and Ultimac M-1B package from PA. Im sure itll function as good as it looks when I shoehorn it onto the Draco.
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Old 08-26-2010, 1:34 PM
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That looks cool with that micro dot.
I really like it.

If I could go SBR I like this one



Too bad we can't put a vertical grip... like what it was designed for



When it comes time for me to stock back up on bulk ammo I always check

http://ammoseek.com/
and
Ammoengine.com
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Old 08-26-2010, 1:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron View Post
Too bad we can't put a vertical grip... like what it was designed for
A VFG is nothing more than a tax stamp away. Easy to get in CA.
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Old 08-26-2010, 1:38 PM
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A VFG is nothing more than a tax stamp away. Easy to get in CA.
On a pistol? or do you have to SBR it first?
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Old 08-26-2010, 1:43 PM
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On a pistol? or do you have to SBR it first?
yes, on a pistol. no, doesn't have to be SBR first.

VFG on a pistol is an AOW. Send in a Form 1 to the ATF to make an AOW with $200, wait ~3 months, get back approved Form 1 with $200 tax stamp, engrave your name, city, state on firearm, install VFG, done.
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  #37  
Old 08-28-2010, 10:56 PM
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My Ultimac and PA gen 7 micro dot sight showed up today. Looks pretty cool.

So Im thinking I may be trying to re invent the wheel here by drilling/tapping the rear trunnion, what all is necessary to install a traditional rear trunnion? How does one flatten/mushroom the rivets?

Anyway, pistol will be here on the first. Looking forward to it.
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Old 08-29-2010, 1:07 AM
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Default $219 1000/7.62x39

http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:28 AM
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Anyone? How hard is it really to install a rear trunion in one of these? What all tools are needed? My google foo fails me as i have searched to no avail.
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Old 08-30-2010, 8:08 PM
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Looks to me like you'd have to drill out the pistol trunnion rivets and drill new holes in the receiver for your new trunnion, as the pistol trunnion holes are in the same location as for an underfolder trunnion. Then you'd need to weld the old rivet holes, grind/sand, then refinish the weapon.

I remember seeing one, but can't remember if it was on here or Arfcom and can't find it. The poster specifically stated he'd had new holes drilled and the old ones welded over.

I'm definitely leaning towards the ACE stock, or the all-metal one made by CNC Warrior (I think it would make for better balance) as the easiest to install. Drill and tap two holes and it's done.

Now, I'm just trying to find something a little smaller diameter than the fake cans... maybe a barrel extension with a muzzle brake welded on to make 5+ inches.
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I'm retired. That's right, retired. I don't want to hear about the cop who stopped you today or how you didn't think you should get a ticket. That just makes me grumpy!

Last edited by Grumpyoldretiredcop; 08-30-2010 at 8:10 PM..
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