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  #41  
Old 08-16-2010, 7:27 PM
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Originally Posted by emcon5 View Post
Really? Which Enfield? SMLE was double stack.
it was? damn it, darn google search.....

well then i have no idea of what .308 caliber single stack magazines are out there.... it ain't exactly something that is easy to search for either.... bleh

Last edited by Scratch705; 08-16-2010 at 7:30 PM..
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  #42  
Old 08-16-2010, 9:59 PM
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Does anyone happen to have a mosin firing pin with a chipped or blunted tip that you wouldn't mind parting with so I can flatten the tip completely? I plan on doing a lot of feed-testing with this thing and the dummy rounds I made don't seem to be working and I don't want to test with live ammo and an intact firing pin for fear of a slam-fire. I don't want to put a round through my garage wall by mistake (and the neighbor's wall.....and car.....and dog....and the fire hydrant across the street....and the school on the other side of the county). I tried making some dummy rounds by putting new tips into spent casings but they just don't feed right (even with my regular floorplate and follower installed). I tried grinding down the necks to bring them back to spec but I think the entire shell is just swollen and FUBARed. Live ammo feeds perfectly though.

-~D~-
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  #43  
Old 08-16-2010, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Datamancer View Post
Does anyone happen to have a mosin firing pin with a chipped or blunted tip that you wouldn't mind parting with so I can flatten the tip completely? I plan on doing a lot of feed-testing with this thing and the dummy rounds I made don't seem to be working and I don't want to test with live ammo and an intact firing pin for fear of a slam-fire. I don't want to put a round through my garage wall by mistake (and the neighbor's wall.....and car.....and dog....and the fire hydrant across the street....and the school on the other side of the county). I tried making some dummy rounds by putting new tips into spent casings but they just don't feed right (even with my regular floorplate and follower installed). I tried grinding down the necks to bring them back to spec but I think the entire shell is just swollen and FUBARed. Live ammo feeds perfectly though.

-~D~-
You must not reload. Cases swell when fired. That combined with the fact that the neck tension is probably minimal, would make for a bad feeding round. Easiest solution?

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  #44  
Old 08-16-2010, 10:23 PM
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You must not reload. Cases swell when fired. That combined with the fact that the neck tension is probably minimal, would make for a bad feeding round. Easiest solution?

CALLING ALL RELOADERS:
Send this guy some a couple dummys with no powder/primer and a bullet seated.
Thanks. I tried using some fired shells, but I only had 5 of those so I actually took the bullets out of fresh shells, dumped out the powder, loaded them into the rifle, fired the primers (sounds and smells like a cap gun. lots of fun!), then put the bullets back in, but even those rounds were still a little wonky. Some reloads done the right way would probably work for me though. Good suggestion, any takers?

-~D~-
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  #45  
Old 08-16-2010, 10:52 PM
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Thanks. I tried using some fired shells, but I only had 5 of those so I actually took the bullets out of fresh shells, dumped out the powder, loaded them into the rifle, fired the primers (sounds and smells like a cap gun. lots of fun!), then put the bullets back in, but even those rounds were still a little wonky. Some reloads done the right way would probably work for me though. Good suggestion, any takers?

-~D~-
Depending on how you yanked the bullets you could have stretched the case-mouth. Healthy crimp on a reloaded dummy will keep it seated through anything.
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  #46  
Old 08-16-2010, 11:05 PM
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I'd buy a few.....Why not try a spring from a Dragunov, they're 10rd 7.62x54r semi-autos. Wouldn't that work?????



i can just picture all the necks breaking to look over at the guy who fires the 6th consecutive shot from a mosin.......give your local ER a heads up before you try it out.
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  #47  
Old 08-16-2010, 11:24 PM
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Of all the threads i have seen of someone wanting to make a 10rd mag for a Mosin finally someone came threw and attempted to make one.
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  #48  
Old 08-17-2010, 12:20 AM
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I'd buy a few.....Why not try a spring from a Dragunov, they're 10rd 7.62x54r semi-autos. Wouldn't that work?????



i can just picture all the necks breaking to look over at the guy who fires the 6th consecutive shot from a mosin.......give your local ER a heads up before you try it out.
Scroll up. I tried that with a Dragunov PSL mag but it's a double-stack, which would be too much trouble to rework, plus the spring and follower were huge.

Haha yeah, it should be fun. It's a pretty eye-catching silhouette with the magazine installed. Changes the entire look of the gun....modernizes it almost. It's my "Evil Black Mosin", I guess. Should be a good time the first time I take it to the range and unload 10 rapid sonic booms downrange (though the mosin has more of a "bark" than a "boom")

-~D~-
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  #49  
Old 08-17-2010, 6:51 AM
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I would be willing to load up some dummies for you. Send me your mailing address in a PM.
Do you want spent primers or empty primer pockets? Can I drill a hole in the side of the cases so there's no question that it's a dummy?

And, pardon my ignorance, but why not just remove the firing pin?

Great project, it has a "Steam Punk" look that appeals to me.
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  #50  
Old 08-17-2010, 7:52 AM
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Once you get a working prototype I might be able to help this along better as far as producing a small batch. I work at a machine shop and can ask about having the entire magazine body water jeted out of stainless steel sheet and have it TIG welded together very nicely. I would then ship the bodies to you and you can install the other components and BAM, working mosin mags. I would just need a drawing of dimensions and your permission of course.

LETS MAKE THIS DREAM A REALITY!!

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  #51  
Old 08-17-2010, 9:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Flintlock Tom View Post
And, pardon my ignorance, but why not just remove the firing pin?
The Mosin Firing pin integrated into the whole bolt as its threaded into the cocking piece which holds the whole thing together. The point is moot tho, as functioning dummy rounds are a much better option than playing with live rounds in an urban setting no matter how safe you think it is.
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  #52  
Old 08-17-2010, 9:39 AM
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as functioning dummy rounds are a much better option than playing with live rounds in an urban setting no matter how safe you think it is.
This is worth repeating.
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  #53  
Old 08-17-2010, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Flintlock Tom View Post
I would be willing to load up some dummies for you. Send me your mailing address in a PM.
Do you want spent primers or empty primer pockets? Can I drill a hole in the side of the cases so there's no question that it's a dummy?

And, pardon my ignorance, but why not just remove the firing pin?

Great project, it has a "Steam Punk" look that appeals to me.
'

Thanks, Tom! I'll PM the address. I guess a spent primer would be best and I think I'd prefer to have the shells intact and I'll scratch a "D" in the side of them to show they're dummies. I worry that if I have any holes in the round, they'll just fill up with grime and oil after a while and be a godawful (unbalanced) mess.

As Vlad 11 said, the Mosin firing pin is a vital structural component of the bolt and it acts as the central support rod which everything else rotates around.

Haha I guess I can't escape steampunk, even here.

-~D~-
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  #54  
Old 08-17-2010, 11:35 AM
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Pretty soon, you'll be making all of the mag components in house and maybe you'll make a lot of $$$!
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  #55  
Old 08-17-2010, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick1236 View Post
Once you get a working prototype I might be able to help this along better as far as producing a small batch. I work at a machine shop and can ask about having the entire magazine body water jeted out of stainless steel sheet and have it TIG welded together very nicely. I would then ship the bodies to you and you can install the other components and BAM, working mosin mags. I would just need a drawing of dimensions and your permission of course.

LETS MAKE THIS DREAM A REALITY!!
Thanks for the offer, Nick. Can you do metal stamping as well? I think that's probably what I'll need here-two stamped halves that I could weld down the middle.

I don't want to get ahead of myself here though. Let me make sure I can get this one working first!


I think a lot of it is going to hinge on the follower design and getting the width just perfect so the follower doesn't have any room to bind. The spring is made for a narrower magazine so it wants to bend itself in a weird arc sometimes which makes the follower sort of kick backward.

Thanks again,
-~D~-
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  #56  
Old 08-17-2010, 12:39 PM
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Thanks for the offer, Nick. Can you do metal stamping as well? I think that's probably what I'll need here-two stamped halves that I could weld down the middle.

I don't want to get ahead of myself here though. Let me make sure I can get this one working first!


I think a lot of it is going to hinge on the follower design and getting the width just perfect so the follower doesn't have any room to bind. The spring is made for a narrower magazine so it wants to bend itself in a weird arc sometimes which makes the follower sort of kick backward.

Thanks again,
-~D~-
Unfortuneatly no, we do not have a metal stamping machine here at my shop. However, with the water jet you get a near perfect cut. TIG welding the pieces together simular to what did would get the job done. Its easy to make a jig, just need the inside demensions and you machine a block and clamp all the pieces around it and weld away. the block then slides out and simply weld the floor plate on. In theory thats how I see it being done, but I have never taken apart magazines and I'm not really quite sure what everything does inside one. Stamping would be far easier, but take in mind any shop is going to charge you a premium for prototyping as it costs more for smaller quantities, especially if they have to make the die.
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  #57  
Old 08-18-2010, 3:08 PM
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Unfortuneatly no, we do not have a metal stamping machine here at my shop. However, with the water jet you get a near perfect cut. TIG welding the pieces together simular to what did would get the job done. Its easy to make a jig, just need the inside demensions and you machine a block and clamp all the pieces around it and weld away. the block then slides out and simply weld the floor plate on. In theory thats how I see it being done, but I have never taken apart magazines and I'm not really quite sure what everything does inside one. Stamping would be far easier, but take in mind any shop is going to charge you a premium for prototyping as it costs more for smaller quantities, especially if they have to make the die.
Yeah I use a waterjet pretty extensively in my work and love them, but I think if I were to do a small production run of these, stamping would be the way to go. The lap-welded panels were just the easiest way for me to put a 1/16" (or thereabouts) step in the material on the inside surface. If I had to reproduce the magazine, welding each panel would be way too labor-intensive and would have way too much potential for warping, plus it would eliminate the cool-looking outer ridges that continue down the mag from the mosin receiver.
We'll see, I'm not quite at that point yet.

-~D~-
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  #58  
Old 08-20-2010, 1:37 PM
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Flintlock Tom was nice enough to whip up a batch of dummy rounds for me to feed-test with (thanks, Tom!) so while I was waiting for those to come in the mail, I dug my bead roller out of storage and made a nicer prototype of the magazine. I'll call this the "Mark 2 Mag". Next comes the custom follower, but I think that will go relatively smoothly. It's pretty convenient that the interrupter/ejector tab sticks out so far into the magazine because I can use that as a stop-catch for the follower (so it doesn't "SPROINGGG!" out the top of the receiver). I really wish I had a wider spring, but I'll try to make it work with this one. I also recently learned of the Finnish Lahti Saloranta which takes a single stack 7.62x51 magazine so I'll order a few of those and see if they might have a better spring.







-~D~-
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  #59  
Old 08-20-2010, 3:11 PM
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If they aren't too wide, do you think you might be able to rig up a pair of 1911 mag springs in tandem? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=638216
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  #60  
Old 08-20-2010, 3:50 PM
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i would think there would chance of binding from the two springs. keeping it 1 spring is best.
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  #61  
Old 08-20-2010, 3:52 PM
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Looks promising for a follower for your magazine. Wouldn't it be easier to adapt this magazine to a Mosin?
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  #62  
Old 08-20-2010, 4:25 PM
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Yup, that's the one. I probably would have started with that mag, had I known it existed, but I just learned about it the other day. My follower will need to be a bit longer, I think, and perfectly match the insides of the mosin. What I'm building isn't exactly a "magazine" in the classic usage of the word because it won't hold any rounds on its own when removed. I guess it would actually be more of an "internal magazine extension", so my follower has to be able to transition from the curved contour of the magazine, right into the straight Mosin receiver without binding, which will take a bit of fine-tuning and trickery.

-~D~-
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  #63  
Old 08-20-2010, 4:27 PM
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If they aren't too wide, do you think you might be able to rig up a pair of 1911 mag springs in tandem? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=638216

Good suggestion, but the springs might bind together if I used two skinny ones instead of one large one. The magazine would require them to keep a shape like '((' but more than likely the springs would keep wanting to do this ')(' or '()'

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  #64  
Old 08-20-2010, 6:22 PM
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Lookin good. Have you been able to actually feed through some dummy rounds yet?
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  #65  
Old 08-20-2010, 6:36 PM
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Lookin good. Have you been able to actually feed through some dummy rounds yet?
I haven't done much work to the follower yet, aside from just half-heartedly tack-welding a little extension onto the WASR-10 follower, so it feeds the first 5-6 pretty well, but binds up a little when you get toward the bottom. That makes sense though, considering that's where the follower encounters the most curvature. I'm optimistic that I'll get it working pretty well once I make the new follower (and/or find a better spring).

-~D~-
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  #66  
Old 08-20-2010, 7:25 PM
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Wow. Great evolution of the mag body
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  #67  
Old 08-20-2010, 7:45 PM
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I definitely like what I am seeing here. Just putting it out there, maybe we can all toss a bit of money at this project to have a calgun's Mosin Nagant magazine for the general public. I'm sure there is a market for Mosin magazines, I went shooting yesterday and had some of my buddies asking me where the magazines were for my M44.
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  #68  
Old 08-20-2010, 10:27 PM
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Ok, taking some advice from the gunandgame forum, where I stumbled across someone reposting this Calguns post, I went and threw a Provisional Patent on the mag idea. The paperwork is cooking right now, so my "patent pending" is ...pending.



-~D~-
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  #69  
Old 08-20-2010, 10:46 PM
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I am very excited about this. This is full of win.
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Old 08-21-2010, 10:27 PM
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If I did actually want to make and sell these things, would I have to get any kind of special permit or apply as an 01 FFL or anything? I mean...common sense would tell me "no, it's a metal box with a spring in it" but this is California and anything having to do with firearms, however remotely, is often a touchy subject.

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  #71  
Old 08-21-2010, 11:07 PM
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afaik there is no FFL licensing required for selling firearm related accessories (which a magazine is)

from my talks with alliedarmory, and some research on my own, you can sell everything short of the firearm itself, with a regular business reseller license you get from the city you will do business out of. (although to be clear this is just for reselling factory items, not homebuilt items.)

so what you do is, get your patent on this finalized and done, file for a business license from your city, file the paperwork associated with opening a business (city clerk should be helpful in this regard) and start selling.
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  #72  
Old 08-22-2010, 10:17 AM
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It can't wait for this. Great idea on the patent btw. Let us know when we can start ordering
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  #73  
Old 08-22-2010, 1:48 PM
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For a spring and follower?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=184288467
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  #74  
Old 08-22-2010, 2:22 PM
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Single stack feed and rimmed
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=186038877
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  #75  
Old 08-22-2010, 5:59 PM
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Thanks for the links, Trap. The Chauchat mag looks like fun but unfortunately the opening bid is $125. That's ok though. "reliably feeding magazine" isn't the first thing that pops to mind when I hear "Chauchat" haha.

Probably wouldn't be too bad if I put plexi windows in the mag cutouts.
I still have no idea what they were thinking with that one.
-~D~-
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  #76  
Old 08-23-2010, 12:01 AM
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Yeah, kind of expensive for just a mag and follower.
I've been wracking my brain all day trying to think of a single stack mag you could cannibalize to make this work. The only ones I can think of are so rare the mag alone would prolly buy you a case of Mosins.
The Saiga .410 ? I have no idea what kind of spring and follower they use, but I know there have been some Mosins converted to .410.
The OAL of a Mosin round is right at 3", and a loaded 3" .410 is just shy of that.
The follower is going to determine how the rounds stack and feed from the mag, important with a rimmed case, and the spring is going to have to have sufficient tension to lift 10 rounds.
Saiga spring, and maybe a follower from one of the old .410 bolt action mags?
Using the Mosin follower a possibility?
If you want to try to heat, bend, and re-temper a PSL mag spring to fit, I can post the process for that if it'll help. I want to see this work!
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Old 08-23-2010, 1:21 AM
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Datamancer Datamancer is offline
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Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
Yeah, kind of expensive for just a mag and follower.
I've been wracking my brain all day trying to think of a single stack mag you could cannibalize to make this work. The only ones I can think of are so rare the mag alone would prolly buy you a case of Mosins.
The Saiga .410 ? I have no idea what kind of spring and follower they use, but I know there have been some Mosins converted to .410.
The OAL of a Mosin round is right at 3", and a loaded 3" .410 is just shy of that.
The follower is going to determine how the rounds stack and feed from the mag, important with a rimmed case, and the spring is going to have to have sufficient tension to lift 10 rounds.
Saiga spring, and maybe a follower from one of the old .410 bolt action mags?
Using the Mosin follower a possibility?
If you want to try to heat, bend, and re-temper a PSL mag spring to fit, I can post the process for that if it'll help. I want to see this work!

Thanks for the footwork, Trap. I've been thinking a lot about the follower here myself and most of the problems I'm running into aren't how to make the follower work, but how to make the follower work with this crappy spring I have. Even with the too-narrow spring, I think I've got it mostly figured out. The real trick is getting the tolerances right so that the follower rides within the grooves in the mag. The original follower from the WASR mag actually fits surprisingly well but I just have to tweak the back end so it rides within that skinny rear track. This is mostly to fight the skinny spring buckling and pulling the follower forward and backward. The top surface of the follower is actually not as important as you'd think at first glance. Just a simple flat surface seems to work, like on the original Mosin follower. One thing I do have to add though is a little riser so that the last round will feed. The ejector/interrupter tab that sticks into the receiver is actually acting as a stop-catch for the follower and stops it a little low to feed the last round.

I'd still love to hear the spring-bending process though. I was actually just reading an article earlier today about making flat-steel springs (like Mauser mag springs) using the oil-quench method, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, and would be interested to hear the method for retempering coil springs, if you feel like posting it.

-~D~-
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Old 08-23-2010, 8:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Datamancer View Post
Thanks for the footwork, Trap. I've been thinking a lot about the follower here myself and most of the problems I'm running into aren't how to make the follower work, but how to make the follower work with this crappy spring I have. Even with the too-narrow spring, I think I've got it mostly figured out. The real trick is getting the tolerances right so that the follower rides within the grooves in the mag. The original follower from the WASR mag actually fits surprisingly well but I just have to tweak the back end so it rides within that skinny rear track. This is mostly to fight the skinny spring buckling and pulling the follower forward and backward. The top surface of the follower is actually not as important as you'd think at first glance. Just a simple flat surface seems to work, like on the original Mosin follower. One thing I do have to add though is a little riser so that the last round will feed. The ejector/interrupter tab that sticks into the receiver is actually acting as a stop-catch for the follower and stops it a little low to feed the last round.

I'd still love to hear the spring-bending process though. I was actually just reading an article earlier today about making flat-steel springs (like Mauser mag springs) using the oil-quench method, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, and would be interested to hear the method for retempering coil springs, if you feel like posting it.

-~D~-
That was actually going to be my suggestion. Would probably be the cheapest method, however I think the curve of the mag is what causes problems with those setups
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Old 08-23-2010, 9:44 AM
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Quote:
I was actually just reading an article earlier today about making flat-steel springs (like Mauser mag springs) using the oil-quench method, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, and would be interested to hear the method for retempering coil springs, if you feel like posting it.
Same process, you're on the right track! Important to have a good clean spring with no pitting though. Use 1000 grit paper to make the spring "in the white", so you can watch for the color change.
The wife's oven, set on the "clean cycle" gives a nice even heat. Do some experimentation, some ovens lock the door until the cycle completes. And don't get caught!
"See honey, I cleaned the oven for you today, am I forgiven for the cosmolene in your dishwasher now?"
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:09 AM
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Why not just use the old Mosin follower with a new spring?
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