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  #1  
Old 07-26-2010, 11:19 AM
ty423 ty423 is offline
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Default Can I resize a loaded round?

alright about 2-3 years ago I bought 1000rds of 223 from a forum member. He sold a bunch of these and I happened to buy the last of it. He says they are reloads bought at a gun show. last year I took these out to the desert. In my AR every few rounds it would get stuck in the chamber and would have to slam the butt of the rifle onto the ground while pulling on the charging handle. I stopped shooting and was puzzled. I went home and tried some factory ammo and cycled it through the rifle and it went through without a hitch. Then I tried the reloaded ammo and behold it wouldn't cycle smoothly at all. Anyways so this ammo sat around and finally I've now gotten into reloading. I also bought a headspace/length gauge and found it wasn't sized correctly however the OAL is good to go. Now my question is do I have to pull all of these 900 or so bullets or can I resize in a resizing/decap die with the decap portion taken out? I have a Hornady New Dimensions die.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:44 AM
polygunner polygunner is offline
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In my experience you can not resize a loaded rifle round.
Pull the bullets, save the powder, deprime CAREFULLY, resize the brass.
Then use the components to work up a load that works well in YOUR rifle.
Good luck
Be careful
Have fun.
pg
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:49 AM
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You will have to pull all the bullets and powder off.
You might want to deprime also because you will need to lube to size them. If the lube gets to the primer it will contaminate it. If you can size and be sure that the lube will not get to the primer, maybe you could take off the decapping pin.
Good luck.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:50 AM
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Even if you could, would it be worth the risk of banging the primer and igniting the round in the die? Kabooom.

I am pretty sure the OAL of a loaded round is too long for a sizing die.

Just sell them to someone who is willing to pull them and resize them.
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:06 PM
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Hah, lazy pants.
I know, I wouldn't want to either.
Look at it this way, if he was too shoddy to size them properly, theres at least some chance that he didn't seat the primers correctly, added low or high powder charges or maybe even double primed!
Do not want...
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:36 PM
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Can I reuse everything? bullet/primer/powder? This is completely for plinking and target shooting... not looking to do anything accurate with these..
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Old 07-26-2010, 2:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ty423 View Post
Can I reuse everything? bullet/primer/powder? This is completely for plinking and target shooting... not looking to do anything accurate with these..
I would not reuse the primer. I think the primer should be out of the case while resizing, and the only safe way I'm aware of to remove live primers is to fire them in a gun after removing the bullet and powder, and then deprime normally.
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Old 07-26-2010, 2:24 PM
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Just some thoughts for conversation (I do not reload/shoot 223/5.56):

1. If my understanding is correct, 5.56 guns have a slightly larger (diameter) chamber than 223 Rem. Is that correct? Does the op have a 223 gun and 5.56 carts?

2. Can one FL resize 5.56 carts for a 223? I "think" the answer is, yes.

3. Under normal reloading procedures, there is no risk that I can think of, in resizing a primered case and, I have so done in the past. (?)

4. Under normal reloading procedures, I cannot think of any way that proper case lubing could contaminate a primer. I am of the belief that a drop of oil needs to be applied directly to the open end of a "modern" primer to eventually disable it (?)

5. If I could get ahold of a cheap spare FL sizing die, I would remove the insert and machine/grind out the neck resizing portion to allow the loaded cart to pass thru the neck size area to just resize the lower case portion only ... and resize all those carts as they are.
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Old 07-26-2010, 2:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 383green View Post
I would not reuse the primer. I think the primer should be out of the case while resizing, and the only safe way I'm aware of to remove live primers is to fire them in a gun after removing the bullet and powder, and then deprime normally.
I would remove your decapping pin, resize with the primers in place and then reload the brass.
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Old 07-26-2010, 2:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ty423 View Post
alright about 2-3 years ago I bought 1000rds of 223 from a forum member. He sold a bunch of these and I happened to buy the last of it. He says they are reloads bought at a gun show. last year I took these out to the desert. In my AR every few rounds it would get stuck in the chamber and would have to slam the butt of the rifle onto the ground while pulling on the charging handle. I stopped shooting and was puzzled. I went home and tried some factory ammo and cycled it through the rifle and it went through without a hitch. Then I tried the reloaded ammo and behold it wouldn't cycle smoothly at all. Anyways so this ammo sat around and finally I've now gotten into reloading. I also bought a headspace/length gauge and found it wasn't sized correctly however the OAL is good to go. Now my question is do I have to pull all of these 900 or so bullets or can I resize in a resizing/decap die with the decap portion taken out? I have a Hornady New Dimensions die.

Can I resize a loaded round? <- NO!! It is dangerous.


What chamber do YOU have? 223REM or 556NATO? Those rounds maybe OK in another guy. If you have another rifle, it would be better if it is a 5.56, try them out.

Or else, it would be a LOT of work....
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  #11  
Old 07-26-2010, 2:56 PM
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What a FKN hassle sell the rounds to someone who has a gun they will chamber in and get some new ones or use that $$ for new commponents.
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Old 07-26-2010, 3:08 PM
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i have 10,000 loaded rounds that came from the processor sized incorrectly...wana trade?

i still dont know what to do with them....i was hoping they made a "big" cheambered barrel so that i could shoot them up!

R
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Old 07-26-2010, 3:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ty423 View Post
Now my question is do I have to pull all of these 900 or so bullets or can I resize in a resizing/decap die with the decap portion taken out?
Great Ghu no, but let's think about this. If you set off a cartridge that isn't confined, the burn rate, being pressure-dependent, drops rapidly enough that the flying case (which usually gets more velocity because the bullet is heavier than the case) doesn't have enough velocity to do much (I've been told that by people who have actually been hit by accidentally ignited rounds). But if the case is in the die, it's a lot like being in a chamber with the ram taking the place of the boltface, isn't it? So we can expect the head to get some support, and the powder to be confined and therefore the powder to develop pressure like it was chambered in a firearm. Is your die as strong as your rifle chamber? Would you like to launch the bullet and bits of the die into your ceiling at pistol velocities? How about back into your face?

Safety isn't about doing stuff unless you *know* it is dangerous, it is about *not* doing stuff unless you *know* it is safe. You're very unlikely to actually set off the primer, since the ram shouldn't be pushing on the primer and nothing should be able to dent the cup and push it against the anvil, but you still couldn't pay me to try it.

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I have a Hornady New Dimensions die.
Oh, if that's the model with the internal adamantium coating, no problem then.

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I would not reuse the primer. I think the primer should be out of the case while resizing, and the only safe way I'm aware of to remove live primers is to fire them in a gun after removing the bullet and powder, and then deprime normally.
I've set off a primer with a Lee Classic reloader, and the hammer was blown back into my forehead and gave me a concussion that required two days in the hospital. The decapping rod went through the ceiling and into the thigh of my upstairs neighbor, missing the femoral artery by less than a millimeter.






















OK, the truth is primers ain't all that if (and only if) only one goes off. I actually did set one off with a Lee Classic, and basically nothing happened other than my ears rang a bit (albeit this was a CCI primer, and they may be a little less hot than others). I suspect that other than getting burning bits of something in your eye (magnum primers can intentionally include little bits of AL dust, for example, so they may be worse than standard primers for eye safety), it would be very tough to hurt yourself that way--so wear good wrap-around safety glasses, please.

I'd be more concerned with breathing a bit of lead or getting it on surfaces for my toddler to chew on than anything else.

As for removing primers, I have done it by just getting out the Lee classic decapping rod. I expected to set it off because I was tapping on the anvil, but to my surprise it didn't. I think I still have the primer because I didn't expect anyone to believe me. It isn't the recommended procedure, but I did get away with it.

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I would remove your decapping pin, resize with the primers in place and then reload the brass.
I would do this too, if it were me. But you're responsible for your safety, not me.

No way in the world would I do it with powder in the case though. That's just asking for a Darwin Award, and Zeus makes the breaks all go the wrong way for people who tempt the gods.

7x57
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Old 07-26-2010, 3:10 PM
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I think toby's response is correct. I had a similair problem with some 223's that I had reloaded and they worked just fine in my Contender, Kel-Tec SU16 and MAK90 (223), but had problems in my Colt AR15. So I just shot them in the guns they worked in and corrected the problem for all new reloads.
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Old 07-26-2010, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Triple R Munitions View Post
i have 10,000 loaded rounds that came from the processor sized incorrectly...wana trade?

i still dont know what to do with them....i was hoping they made a "big" cheambered barrel so that i could shoot them up!

R
That's almost worth getting a custom chamber reamer made and having a custom barrel made for them. If they were match grade 50BMGs, I'd go the custom chamber route for sure!
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Old 07-26-2010, 3:13 PM
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Those rounds maybe OK in another guy.
If they don't go in the other guy, you're definitely doing it wrong. Try not using the barrel as a buttstock.

7x57
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Old 07-26-2010, 4:44 PM
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If they don't go in the other guy, you're definitely doing it wrong. Try not using the barrel as a buttstock.

7x57
i read that, and was very disappointed when the next person to post didn't capitalize on it. thank you 7x57. I'm glad it didn't go to waste

ty423...as stated previously no you can't re size the loaded round. even if you removed the expander rod you'd ruin your brass and bullets. the sizing die reduces the neck diameter to less than spec. that's why you have an "expander", to expand it to the correct size. at the very least you'd have some extra skinny bullets when you were done

it sounds like a major PITA pulling down 900 rounds just to then reload them. i'll agree with toby. if you can find someone who's gun will eat them selling them would be the easiest route.

but yes you can reuse all the components. if you can remove the decapping pin from your die then great. hit those cases with some oneshot or similar non petroleum case lube, and size away. also I've made enough mistakes to know you can safely remove live primers. It's not my favorite thing in the world, and I don't recommend it. but I have done it on a couple small batches, and expect I'll do it again someday. just be gentle with that upstroke and wear hearing and eye protection. the worst I can imagine happening is the primer detonates and blows itself out of the case B.F.D. It's not contained, and with no powder charge I can't see any possible way for it to make your die into a grenade.
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Old 07-26-2010, 8:09 PM
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It sounds like a small base or full length body die might work. You could try contacting the die manufacturer to see if it is recommended or likely to result in death. On a more practical note do you really want to shoot ammo loaded with poor quality control?
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Old 07-26-2010, 8:49 PM
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Yes you can resize loaded ammo, in a small base die or a bushing die. Is it 100% safe? Probably not.

Yes you can resize primed brass, in any die. Is it 100% safe? Pretty much.

Yes you can decap live primers, unless they are crimped in (military). Is it 100% safe? Pretty much. Wear ear and eye protection.

Yes you can pull the bullets. Is it 100% safe, with an inertia type puller? Nope, but they work great and don't scar the bullets.

If you reload long enough, you will encounter all sorts of "issues". One must simply be smart about dealing with them...
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Old 07-26-2010, 9:02 PM
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If you reload long enough, you will encounter all sorts of "issues". One must simply be smart about dealing with them...

Sounds like a potential tagline...... and sound advice.

To me, being "smart" is "risk management"........ Is the "risk" of possibly losing my eyesight worth saving "X-dollars"? Answer: Sometimes Yes, Sometimes No... the experience is knowing when "Yes" and when "No".
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Old 07-26-2010, 9:33 PM
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I would go ahead and try those in a few other rifles, I've been in your shoes before and what I found was that my newer less fired 30-30 wouldn't eat them but my dads "old faithfull " 30-30 had zero problems with them. If you don't have another rifle, sell them to someone else with multiple rifles and disclose the problems you had. If they work in my Mini-14 I'd buy em'.
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Old 07-26-2010, 9:38 PM
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You can resize them in a Redding body die. It only sizes the case body and leaves the neck alone.
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Old 07-26-2010, 9:41 PM
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I'd pull the bullets resize them to chamber in your AR. resizing primed case is not dangerous and oil is NOT a reliable way to Kill a primer it may kill it it may NOT.. use imperial sizing wax or one shot with no issues.. If you do them in small batches it will not be too much of a PITA.. I'd weigh each charge of powder and make sure they are all about the same, shooting other peoples reloads is much more dangerous than resizing primes cases. B2B


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Old 07-26-2010, 9:54 PM
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A body die only costs $20. Much faster than pulling 1000 rounds.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:05 PM
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ive got a feeling they are not trimmed

so sizing wont do squat
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:17 PM
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the problem with getting that custom reamer is that some of the rounds fit and some dont...i was going to test them in my buddies galill.....i am hoping that they will work there....i also have another 10k~ of 223 that the primers blow out because the brass was bad to begin with! i cant really even shoot that in a bolt.... i hate brass......

the question at hand...i would not recomend sizing them because basically you are putting a live round in a "chamber" (ie the die) and it has the potential of going off....its not worth it....but you can find a kid down the street and tell him to pull it for 5.00 a hour....

my .02

R
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:24 PM
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One issue I see is what powder was used to make these rounds? If you don't know for sure, I wouldn't reuse it...
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:12 AM
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thanks for the input guys... I am waiting on the powder and primers I've ordered... I'll try a batch of 10 or more first before anything...
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Old 07-27-2010, 6:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Bolt2Bounce View Post
I'd pull the bullets resize them to chamber in your AR. resizing primed case is not dangerous and oil is NOT a reliable way to Kill a primer it may kill it it may NOT.. use imperial sizing wax or one shot with no issues.. If you do them in small batches it will not be too much of a PITA.. I'd weigh each charge of powder and make sure they are all about the same, shooting other peoples reloads is much more dangerous than resizing primes cases. B2B
B2B LIVES!!!!! He also speaks the truth. I would not count on oil deactivating a primer either!
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Old 07-28-2010, 1:03 AM
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Ty423 since you already have fired those rounds, the reloads that is, take apart 3-5 of the ammo and weigh the powder charge. Pretty much get the average. Then you can pull apart the rest of the ammo. You can still reuse the primers. I have done it. It will go bang everytime. After you have reloaded the ammo then check with your case gauge to make sure it will chamber. No sense in wasting decent components.
As far as resizing a loaded round, it's a big no-no.
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Old 07-28-2010, 6:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bohoki View Post
ive got a feeling they are not trimmed

so sizing wont do squat
Unless he has a custom match real short chamber, or these cases have been reloaded more than three times, trimming is not necessary.
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Old 07-28-2010, 8:11 AM
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Unless he has a custom match real short chamber, or these cases have been reloaded more than three times, trimming is not necessary.
Really? I've had once fired brass that needed trimming to be within spec.
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:09 AM
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what is oal and case length now?
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Old 07-28-2010, 8:11 PM
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Really? I've had once fired brass that needed trimming to be within spec.
Your cases grew .030" after one firing? Mine usually grow .005-.010".
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Old 07-28-2010, 8:42 PM
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ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
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Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
You can resize them in a Redding body die. It only sizes the case body and leaves the neck alone.
Redding specifically says not to do that.
If you check the loaded neck diameter and find that they are all smaller than the opening at the top of the body die, there's no problem using a body die to bump the shoulder back.
Just make sure you are lubing the cases as a stuck loaded round would really suck.

It should go without saying that you don't want to do ANYTHING in the press that could potentially set the primer off during this.
That precludes you from being able to run the loaded rounds through a casefeeder.

Sort through all the rounds with your headspace gauge and set aside the long ones.
That way you are not doing any more of them than you have to...
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 07-28-2010 at 8:45 PM..
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  #36  
Old 07-28-2010, 8:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Triple R Munitions View Post
i would not recomend sizing them because basically you are putting a live round in a "chamber" (ie the die) and it has the potential of going off....its not worth it....
You obviously would remove any priming system and swager from the press when re-sizing live ammo...

Can you give me a logical explanation HOW the loaded cartridge might go off while it's actually IN the body die?
The shellholder or shellplate have an opening where the primer is sitting so there's no actual force on the live primer while re-sizing the case.
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  #37  
Old 07-28-2010, 8:51 PM
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ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Really? I've had once fired brass that needed trimming to be within spec.
Within spec for brass or for chamber?
The specs for brass and chambers are QUITE different, like to the tune of 0.030" to 0.050".
They are so much different that Sinclair makes a tool for measuring neck length to actually determine what trim length can be used in any particular chamber.
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Old 07-28-2010, 9:09 PM
Triple R Munitions Triple R Munitions is offline
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Quote:
You obviously would remove any priming system and swager from the press when re-sizing live ammo...
well it would be kinda hard to put a live round in a die with the spindle still in it

Quote:
Can you give me a logical explanation HOW the loaded cartridge might go off while it's actually IN the body die?
The shellholder or shellplate have an opening where the primer is sitting so there's no actual force on the live primer while re-sizing the case.
well now that you said that, i guess there is nothing around the primer... so maybe there is not a good chance of it going off. i have sized some rounds that are too big, but not many....just didnt feel good about putting it in the die....

i just dont want to be the first one to have one go off....

R
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  #39  
Old 07-28-2010, 9:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Triple R Munitions View Post
well it would be kinda hard to put a live round in a die with the spindle still in it
You can't use a regular sizing die that sizes the neck.
You specifically have to use a redding body die as it has no neck and it has enough clearance for a loaded neck to fit through it.
If you use a regular die, it squeezes the neck down which makes the bullet too small for the barrel.



That die all the way to the left is the body die.
Notice how short it is compared to the sizer and seater dies in that toolhead?
That's because the body die does not have a neck or any hardware on top to hold a decapping stem.
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  #40  
Old 07-28-2010, 9:20 PM
Triple R Munitions Triple R Munitions is offline
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wow....i did not know they made one of those.... maybe i can salvage those 10k rounds now.... are they pretty easy to buy? what are they called? "a body die"?

do you know how much smaller it makes the projectile if it is sized in a F-L die?

R
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