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  #1  
Old 07-19-2010, 5:39 PM
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Default HK USP .45 vs. Glock 21 vs. Sig P220

There's not to many options in regards to a modern high capacity .45's the Glock 21 has been my choice for the last 7 years. The P220 is accurate and fun to shoot but it is heavy and holds only 8 rounds. I was never really a fan of HK because I've always liked sigs I was being a bit of a fanboy I think and I should be open to new ideas. I also thought the only reason someone would choose an HK over a Sig or Glock was because they thought it looked cooler.

I bought a USP compact in .40 in 2004 (because it looked cool) and I never really liked the gun especially when I would go shoot with my buddy and he brought his p229 in .40 I sold it and figured I would never consider buying an HK again and if I bought something in .40 it would be a sig.

I shot a rental USP .45 at the range with my brother that was considering getting a USP for himself to go along with his USP compact I must say that I was thoroughly impressed with the fullsize USP. I shot so well with it that I'm seriously considering buying one the problem I always had with the hk is the travel and the grittiness of the trigger. I don't know if I'm a better shot or if the gun was just thoroughly broken in there were none of these issues for me at the range. The trigger reset the feel and the accuracy was excellent I'm buying one for sure and considering a civilian 416 next year I forget what its called mr556 or something I have issues.

So to break it down the things I like about the USP light weight, 1911 style safety with decocker, accurate, high capacity, ambidextrous, durable finish, and SA/DA. Dislikes magazine release location and feels like it could be sold for a bit cheaper.

Glock 21 likes lighter than the USP, high capacity, cheapest of the bunch best for the money, polymer magazines, durable finish, the fewest parts to break, and easy to service. Dislikes magazine release, slide release, cheap feel at times, and DAO.

Sig P220 likes all metal feels like a real gun, trigger pull, SA/DA, all parts in the right location they feel smoother and less gritty for example the decocker slide catch and magazine release its like a caddy, feels like you get what you pay for. Dislikes weight, round capacity, and finish durability.

These three to me are all equally accurate and dependable enough for me to exclude these points. The p220 seems like a bit outdated of the three though.

I don't really want to buy a lot of pistols right now because it cuts down the amount of money I can spend on rifles but I really want to have a pistol that is going to be my dedicated SHTF pistol. I've always liked 45acp in the past couple of years I've been considering just sticking to the P226 in 9mm because of the whole firepower vs. mobility thing. I've heard a modern 9mm with the right defensive cartridge is just as lethal as a .45 with the right cartridge because you can't kill zombies to death. I've always from day one believed the .45 is the best pistol cartridge and I haven't warmed up to the .40 what do you guys think there's a lot of issues I have when it comes to my secondary please help with some input and save me from having to buying 4-6 different pistols.

For me if this was a HK USP 9mm vs. Glock 17 vs. P226 I wouldn't hesitate to choose the P226.
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Old 07-19-2010, 5:50 PM
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USP. But that is just my personal preference. All three of your options are excellent weapons.

The reason I prefer the HK are:

-The lever-style mag release feels more natural to me. Reloads are much faster and do not require as much manipulation of my grip on the gun.
-I have big hands, so the HK fits my hand well.
-They are very accurate guns, and in my opinion, every bit as reliable as Glocks.
-They look awesome. (Sorry, but I think Glocks are just plain ugly)
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Old 07-19-2010, 5:54 PM
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by USP and add match trigger or expert model
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Old 07-19-2010, 5:57 PM
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I have a USP .45 and the trigger isn't nearly as bad as my USP 40. Still, you'd think HK would put a better trigger in such an expensive gun. It is a beautiful gun nonetheless.

Pre Obama Sig p220s are awesome but capacity is low and the metal frame is pretty heavy. You couldn't GIVE me a recently made Sig model: their quality control is terrible.

I think if my life depended on it, I'd get the Glock.
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Old 07-19-2010, 6:00 PM
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USP
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Originally Posted by tuna quesadilla View Post
Sure, a good 1911 will feed FMJ ammo flawlessly, and some of them will even feed JHP. But they lack the features that make the Glock the excellent pistol that it is. A 1911 is an enthusiast's toy, not a serious combat pistol.
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Old 07-19-2010, 6:02 PM
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They're all excellent weapons. I would buy the one that fits my hand the best.
Just my 2 cents.
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Old 07-19-2010, 6:06 PM
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Unless you are really going to carry it daily, I wouldn't worry about the weight. In fact the extra weight would be welcomed for a back up weapon in the home as easier recoil management. I think all three are fine weapons and it really comes down to a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge kind of question. If you really want one more than the others, then just go with that.
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Old 07-19-2010, 6:07 PM
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I have both a 220 and USP .45

Love them both.. the Sig seems to have a more "expensive" feel.. most likely just because it's an all metal gun.

Both shoot great and I would trust either with my life but after seen some videos the Sig is what I would grap if the world was ending. lol
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2010, 6:17 PM
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I have both Glock 21 & Sig 220 and both are great weapons.
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Old 07-19-2010, 6:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhena81 View Post
Glock 21 likes lighter than the USP, high capacity, cheapest of the bunch best for the money, polymer magazines, durable finish, the fewest parts to break, and easy to service. Dislikes magazine release, slide release, cheap feel at times, and DAO.
Usually the 2 most common things changed out with Glock owners. Maybe not so many with the extended mag release, but for sure the extended slide release as it makes life a lot easier. You can buy both extended pieces together for about $10-$20.
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Old 07-19-2010, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cato View Post
I have a USP .45 and the trigger isn't nearly as bad as my USP 40. Still, you'd think HK would put a better trigger in such an expensive gun. It is a beautiful gun nonetheless.

Pre Obama Sig p220s are awesome but capacity is low and the metal frame is pretty heavy. You couldn't GIVE me a recently made Sig model: their quality control is terrible.

I think if my life depended on it, I'd get the Glock.
The HK is a beautiful gun. What makes you say the sigs quality control is terrible now I was steering my mom to buy a P229 in 9mm for protection. Is it because of their new compact the p238 has had issues or have you seen it first hand or read about it this is news to me.
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Old 07-19-2010, 6:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taguin View Post
They're all excellent weapons. I would buy the one that fits my hand the best.
^^ This right here. All great choices. You can't go wrong.
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Old 07-19-2010, 6:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cato View Post

Pre Obama Sig p220s are awesome but capacity is low and the metal frame is pretty heavy. You couldn't GIVE me a recently made Sig model: their quality control is terrible.
When were the Sigs bad...only in 2008? How about mid to late 2007? Was their quality control any better? I guess I'm asking when did the bad Sigs first appear and what were their issues?
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Old 07-19-2010, 6:35 PM
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I'd say go for the glock. Ugly but it works. Plentiful parts and mags. The trigger reset on the glock has a lot less travel. Consistent pull. My fn fnp 40. Man that first shot, 12lbs! then immediately to 5 lbs + travel. Mags for the glock are a lot cheaper than factory mags for the hk. My friend has the usp 45 full size. Factory mags run $50 for the 12 rounder. There are some pro-mag that you can find for around $25 - $30/mag. Seems to work.
Extended slide release on glocks snags when drawing from holster especially iwb type holsters. You could change out the mag release though.

But for a shtf pistol, glock. I thought about that too zombies and whatever else.

Even thought about lwrc repr for a battle rifle $3500. 5.56 ain't cutting it in afghanistan. Marines and seals switched pronto. Busted out the old m14 from the warehouse since afghanistan is 400 - 600m war zone and that 308 can bust through walls, wood cover. But then I thought about the fal too. Think for an ideal setup:

pistol 40 cal or 45acp. 10mm nice to have, 9mm capacity is tempting 17 rounds in glock 17
rifle ar type gas piston for less cleaning and no smoking from the chamber
ak 47 for cheap ammo that can bust through wood, cover etc.
or m1a or fal for a true battle rifle but the ak is so much light 7lbs vers 9 1/2lbs empty! onces = pounds
pump shotgun 870 or mossberg 590a1 with dragon's breath, low recoil buckshot

sorry for going off topic a bit but shtf always does the trick.

for cost/ stable logistics of ammo 45acp/7.62 x39 or 9mm/308

Hope this helps out.

Last edited by willm952; 07-19-2010 at 6:39 PM..
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Old 07-19-2010, 6:47 PM
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USP haters usually have never shot one and don't appreciate the accuracy or are just incapable of realizing it's potential. My bro shot my USP9 for the first time at ASR yesterday and he couldn't believe how accurate he was with it. It sorta bugged me that he shot 3/10 pie plate swingers at 50yds and I only hit 2/10. But I hit the pie plate at 100yds in my first mag and it took him two mags. Anyways, he shot better with it than with his own guns.
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Old 07-19-2010, 7:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhena81 View Post

Glock 21 likes lighter than the USP, high capacity, cheapest of the bunch best for the money, polymer magazines, durable finish, the fewest parts to break, and easy to service. Dislikes magazine release, slide release, cheap feel at times, and DAO.
Easily fixed with Vickers mag release and factory extended slide release. As far as feeling cheap, I'm not quite sure if you are looking for a collectors piece or something that you can be proficient with. Aesthetics and what platform will work in a defensive scenario are two very different things. Aesthetics are important, but they are a distant 6th or 7th when deciding on a fighting pistol.

I'm not quite sure how the Glock DAO or other striker fired platforms similar to Glock are a disadvantage.

I've been honored to have owned and shot numerous .45s on an extended term, including the ones you listed, my vote if not deciding on a 1911 platform: Smith & Wesson MP45
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Old 07-19-2010, 7:12 PM
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I've owned a USP 45 and G21. I've put thousands of rounds down range and ran both through classes/training. I sold the USP and still have the Glock.
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Old 07-19-2010, 7:13 PM
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Own P220, USP and G21. I own two G21s!
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Old 07-19-2010, 7:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l8apex View Post
Easily fixed with Vickers mag release and factory extended slide release. As far as feeling cheap, I'm not quite sure if you are looking for a collectors piece or something that you can be proficient with. Aesthetics and what platform will work in a defensive scenario are two very different things. Aesthetics are important, but they are a distant 6th or 7th when deciding on a fighting pistol.

I'm not quite sure how the Glock DAO or other striker fired platforms similar to Glock are a disadvantage.

I've been honored to have owned and shot numerous .45s on an extended term, including the ones you listed, my vote if not deciding on a 1911 platform:

Smith & Wesson MP 45
The DAO hasn't been a problem for me with quality ammo your right it's really a none issue I have had some bad primers with reloads though and after a second strike it has fired I don't know if it's the right thing to do but I don't like to waste ammo. With regards to the 1911 that is just to much of a debate to even bring into the picture it's not just a 1911 vs glock vs sig vs hk it's 1911 vs 1911.

I have not considered the Smith MP from what I've heard not from my own experience is why not just buy a glock. Granted that's an easy way out I should find out for myself and understand why thanks for the input.

On my G21 I have sand decal grips, a 3.5 lb connector, extended slide release, metal recoil spring, titanium firing pin, and titanium plunger I should check out the mag release. I'm still not crazy about the extended slide release and the only reason I don't mind it much is because I do agree with you about being proficient because in the end of the day we are just talking about a pistol.

The next 1911 I will buy will be my collectors piece like I said though you know that's a whole different discussion Ed Brown vs. Les Bear vs. Nighthawk vs. Wilson Combat vs. Springfield Pro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by till44 View Post
I've owned a USP 45 and G21. I've put thousands of rounds down range and ran both through classes/training. I sold the USP and still have the Glock.
What made you sell the USP I'm very comfortable with the 21 BTW I'm almost bored with it at times I find I take out the 226 more not entirely because of ammo prices though. I've had the 21 for 7 or 8 years and have probably put more than 30,000 rounds down range about 250 rounds a month not that it's near the end of its service life it's like having that old truck that still runs like a champ but in the back of your mind your saying is this the day she's going to die. I want to buy a new .45 and was wondering if I should buy a G21, P220, or HK USP. The only thing I've changed in the G21 was the recoil spring 2 times whenever I think I'm hovering around 10,000 I don't know if it's necessary I just do it.

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Own P220, USP and G21. I own two G21s!
Why 2 are you a modern cowboy LOL JK man.
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Old 07-20-2010, 1:45 AM
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Own all three. The Sig P220 hand sdown is the best shooter in both feel, accuracy, recoil, and trigger feel. I like the USP45 and G21 about the same and both relaible and great guns, but the P220 is the KING of non 1911 .45.
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Old 07-20-2010, 8:46 AM
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...Why 2 are you a modern cowboy LOL JK man.
ching...ching...ching...why yes I am!
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Old 07-20-2010, 9:01 AM
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The "gritty trigger" might have been because it was a rental gun. What kind of maintenance (lubrication) did that rental USP get?

I have a USPf .45 with the light LEM trigger. It's very smooth and predictable. I'd truly be hard pressed to think of a trigger system that is better for SHTF situations. The USP has been scary reliable, eats everything I feed it, is very accurate and has been worth its price. Once you're shooting with the USP, you'll forget all about money.

About the mag release: use the middle finger of your trigger hand to push the release down. It's fast, consistent and made for rapid mag changes. Once you get used to it, you'll understand why it is where it is. Then other pistols just seem "wrong".
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Old 07-20-2010, 9:12 AM
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Beside 1911 platform, the Sig 220 is my most preferred 45acp pistol platform.
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:45 AM
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I have both the USP and G21.

The USP with the higher barrel has more muzzle whip than the lower G21 bore axis.

For SD, the G21's trigger is easier for me to shoot accurately with speed under stress. The USP's DA/SA trigger is tougher to do fast accurate dedicated pairs with. Requires lots more practice to work with that DA trigger. Cocked and locked mode would be a better workaround, if you want to pack in that condition.

That said, for slow target shooting, I found my USP more accurate than the G21, albeit with more muzzle whip.

If cost is an issue, you'd do fine with the G21, if the grip fits your hand, and you can put the savings towards your rifles. The USP has a smaller grip.

My G21 is my go to gun for training classes, competition, and SHTF... ; )
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivers View Post
About the mag release: use the middle finger of your trigger hand to push the release down. It's fast, consistent and made for rapid mag changes. Once you get used to it, you'll understand why it is where it is. Then other pistols just seem "wrong".
Yup. Using the middle finger makes mag changes fast and comfortable. Try using your thumb and it feels incredibly akward...
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Old 07-20-2010, 1:32 PM
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I like the HK because when I shot all 3 of these, I had tighter groups with the HK USP 45 full size. The trigger may be a little heavier than some but irregardless, or maybe because of that, I shoot best with HK. I for one like the trigger and I like the DA/SA setup. There is a "match" trigger available, if you want to have a lighter one. Not to expensive and folks I hear got 'em love 'em.
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Old 07-20-2010, 2:52 PM
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YOu cannot go wrong with the Glock or the HK (can't say much about the SIg since I do not own one, but shot them and they are nice!), I have the G30sf and the HKUSP45 elite and I like them equally for there own reasons.
Although I think everyone should have at least one glock in there collection
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Old 07-20-2010, 5:32 PM
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I have a 220 ST and USP 45. Both have there advantages. But my perfered is the 220ST.
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Old 07-20-2010, 8:14 PM
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Don't compare a Glock to a Sig or HK, the Glock can't hold a candle to the other two. The USP would be my choice.
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Old 07-20-2010, 9:00 PM
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where do you guys get P220 as being heavy?
P220 = 30.6oz.
Glock 21 = 26.28oz.
Full size HK USP = 31oz

Personally, I've owned all 3 of them and current own 3 USPs in 45acp and 1x p220 and don't own any Glock 21. Forget Glock 21, it's bulky (except the new slim version), lack accuracy (compare to the other 2) and tend to blow up. I blew one up on exactly the 12th round of low velocity match jacketed load for whatever reason.

My USPs are: Expert, Elite and Tactical. All capable of shooting less than 1.5" groups at 25 yards but all cost around $1000 each. Great guns and lots of features but the stupid rails might as well absent. Can't shoot lead bullets.

P220 isn't outdated by any stretch of imagination. It may lack a little in capacity in comparison but it's probably one of most accurate 45acp production grade pistol on the market. I've had owned 2 and shot several more. Most of them police trade-ins and all were capable of 1.5" groups easily at 25 yards.

I love the P220 the most for its simplicity, sunrise reliability, silky smooth, match level accuracy, compactness (compare to the other 2), can shoot lead bullets and it only cost me $475 6 years ago. Plus, I can easily put a laser on it even though it doesn't have rails. Hammer forged barrel will last a life time. If I can only have 1 45ACP pistol for the rest of my life, it'll be a P220 (or the 5" barrel versions) hands down.
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Old 07-20-2010, 9:32 PM
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I realize we are talking .45 and I have .40s but...if this helps regarding the various form factors and features...

I owned a USP .40 and now shoot a Sig P299/P226/P239. Both makes are great pistols and, having fired but don't own .40 Glocks (yet) they are great as well. They all have minor tradeoffs: price (Glock wins), heft (matters in the .40 recoil control--Sig is heaviest and wins), durability (all in varying situations), safeties/de-cockers/etc (they all offer such a wide choice), size (you need full size including trigger guard with glove-sized holes--H&K or Sig 226R). They are all good--you cannot go wrong with any of them in the main. Since everyone's grips and hand size varies, try all you can before buying. You cannot go wrong with those three. I prefer Sigs but I am biased for my own reasons.
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Last edited by advocatusdiaboli; 07-20-2010 at 9:35 PM..
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  #32  
Old 07-20-2010, 9:47 PM
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Dhena81 Dhena81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huckberry668 View Post
where do you guys get P220 as being heavy?
P220 = 30.6oz.
Glock 21 = 26.28oz.
Full size HK USP = 31oz

Personally, I've owned all 3 of them and current own 3 USPs in 45acp and 1x p220 and don't own any Glock 21. Forget Glock 21, it's bulky (except the new slim version), lack accuracy (compare to the other 2) and tend to blow up. I blew one up on exactly the 12th round of low velocity match jacketed load for whatever reason.

My USPs are: Expert, Elite and Tactical. All capable of shooting less than 1.5" groups at 25 yards but all cost around $1000 each. Great guns and lots of features but the stupid rails might as well absent. Can't shoot lead bullets.

P220 isn't outdated by any stretch of imagination. It may lack a little in capacity in comparison but it's probably one of most accurate 45acp production grade pistol on the market. I've had owned 2 and shot several more. Most of them police trade-ins and all were capable of 1.5" groups easily at 25 yards.

I love the P220 the most for its simplicity, sunrise reliability, silky smooth, match level accuracy, compactness (compare to the other 2), can shoot lead bullets and it only cost me $475 6 years ago. Plus, I can easily put a laser on it even though it doesn't have rails. Hammer forged barrel will last a life time. If I can only have 1 45ACP pistol for the rest of my life, it'll be a P220 (or the 5" barrel versions) hands down.
The p220 I held seemed heavy to me out of the three. I found out yesterday that the reason it was so heavy was because it was a SS p220 and it has a steel frame not aluminum like the other models which contribute to the weight. I just looked at Sigs site and the SS is 39.1 oz the standard P220 is 30.4 oz. Your right the HK is the heaviest at 1.96lbs or 31.35 oz. I like the feel of the 220 but I'm going with the HK without a doubt the more I think about it. I'll be getting a P220 one of these days I keep putting it off but I can't afford everything I want anyways and I have to compromise and that's one more reason I should go with HK lol. Compactness to me doesn't matter because I can't carry it concealed anyways and if I was looking for something for a CCW I would either choose the sig 239 or Kahr pm9.
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  #33  
Old 07-20-2010, 11:06 PM
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I'd go with the 220. The others are fine, no actually great, but I just like the 220 and how it feels to me. You HAVE to go with what is right with you.
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:40 PM
OmutaX OmutaX is offline
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If you like the P226, the P220 would make you happiest I think in the long run. HK pistols are way low on my list of firearms I want in my collection in the future because of their absolutely atrocious out of the box triggers. Even the LEM triggers were disappointing to me. I love how handsome HKs are, but won't buy them without also budgeting some $ for some gunsmith work to thoroughly work on the action.

Out of those three for me, I'd probably get the Glock 21(Already have one! A 21SF) because like many others here have said, parts are plentiful, it's EXTREMELY easy to detail strip and do all your own smithin', and that polymer frame soaks up .45 recoil better than the Sig in my opinion. But of course if I had the money for more than one, I'd get the Sig first others later .

Check this out for an interesting read on torturing the Glock 21. This guy RAPES his G21 and it's still going strong.

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php...ask=view&id=90
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  #35  
Old 07-21-2010, 7:18 AM
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I have fired all three, and currently own a standard 220.

My favorite shooter was the USP, but slimmer profile of the SIG won out in the end. It made sense to me to stick with a single stack since I'd have to buy limited mags in the other two. The Glock was very nice to shoot, but I reload .45acp, and didn't want to deal with potentially damaging brass.

So honestly, none of them is a loser in my book. If you don't reload and don't plan on starting (or don't buy into the unsupported chamber hype) get the G21. It'll save you a couple hundred bucks you can put toward ammo or a holster or beer.
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  #36  
Old 07-21-2010, 9:14 AM
huckberry668 huckberry668 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhena81 View Post
The p220 I held seemed heavy to me out of the three. I found out yesterday that the reason it was so heavy was because it was a SS p220 and it has a steel frame not aluminum like the other models which contribute to the weight.
ah, that's why. however, weight dampens recoil & makes follow up shots easier.

Quote:
I like the feel of the 220 but I'm going with the HK without a doubt the more I think about it. .... Compactness to me doesn't matter because I can't carry it concealed anyways and if I was looking for something for a CCW I would either choose the sig 239 or Kahr pm9.
HK is a good choice too. that's why i own 4 of them (1 in 40sw). The reason Sig P220 is my best choice is because my wife can hold/shoot it easier than the HKs.
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Old 07-21-2010, 10:41 AM
Foriegn power Foriegn power is offline
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One of my factors with only the sig 220 and the Glock is the double and single action trigger. I'm use to the double action, thus why I'm biased and choose Glock, it's all self preference.
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  #38  
Old 07-21-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT13 View Post
Own all three. The Sig P220 hand sdown is the best shooter in both feel, accuracy, recoil, and trigger feel. I like the USP45 and G21 about the same and both relaible and great guns, but the P220 is the KING of non 1911 .45.
This ^^^^^!!!...all week long, including holidays and Sundays. Not knocking the others at all, but if I had to pick ONE, it would be the Sig.

The P220 is my wife's primary weapon by the way. Standing, isosceles, without a rest, at 25 yards, she can consistently put 8 shots in 4", and feels very comfortable and confident with the feel of the firearm.

Last edited by faterikcartman; 07-21-2010 at 11:13 AM..
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  #39  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:52 PM
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This....just make sure it's a P220 Combat that fits your hand!

Quote:
Originally Posted by taguin View Post
They're all excellent weapons. I would buy the one that fits my hand the best.
Just my 2 cents.
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  #40  
Old 08-31-2010, 2:15 PM
wild-weasel wild-weasel is offline
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I've had all 3 and the only one I still have the the Sig p220.
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