Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-18-2010, 7:40 PM
billgato's Avatar
billgato billgato is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riverside, California
Posts: 494
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Default How do I register an unregistered gun legally?

I am interested in buying a pistol from my friend. However, he got the gun about 3-5 years ago and didn't register it. Can I buy still buy it from him or will either of us get into trouble during the transfer process?

Did a search and didn't find anything that matched my question. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Bill Gato
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-18-2010, 7:44 PM
Sinixstar Sinixstar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,520
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

A lot of it depends on how he 'got the gun'....
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-18-2010, 7:47 PM
frankm's Avatar
frankm frankm is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Occupied Vespuchia
Posts: 9,427
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

If he bought the gun in a PPT without paperwork in California, you might get in trouble if Calif has it registered to someone else.
__________________
RKBA Clock: soap box, ballot box, jury box, cartridge box (expanded right 4/16/14)
"Socialism can be a useful servant, but is a cruel master"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-18-2010, 7:51 PM
billgato's Avatar
billgato billgato is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riverside, California
Posts: 494
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Default

So is there a way for my friend to check for the status of the gun if he is not currently the registered owner? My friend is not into guns and probably didn't know the laws on transferring the ownership of the gun.

Should he go and register it now before selling it to me?

Bill Gato
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-18-2010, 7:55 PM
Ron-Solo's Avatar
Ron-Solo Ron-Solo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,850
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

As long as it is not reported stolen, both of you can go to a licensed firearms dealer and complete a "Private Persons Transfer" thru the dealer. It is a face to face transaction and the maximum fee the dealer can charge is $35.

You will also need a handgun safety certificate and secondary proof of residence such as a utility bill in your name, car registration, or government issued identification that shows your address.

There is NOT a "registration" requirement in California and the DROS procedure is a background check rather than a registration, so the fact that it is not "registered" is irrelevant.
__________________
LASD Retired
1978-2011




If You Heard The Shot, You Weren't The Target

Last edited by Ron-Solo; 07-18-2010 at 7:57 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-18-2010, 8:02 PM
billgato's Avatar
billgato billgato is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riverside, California
Posts: 494
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Default

So prior to going the do the PPT, is there a way to check the status of the handgun to be sure it has not been used in a crime?

Bill Gato
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-18-2010, 8:27 PM
Sinixstar Sinixstar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,520
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
As long as it is not reported stolen, both of you can go to a licensed firearms dealer and complete a "Private Persons Transfer" thru the dealer. It is a face to face transaction and the maximum fee the dealer can charge is $35.

You will also need a handgun safety certificate and secondary proof of residence such as a utility bill in your name, car registration, or government issued identification that shows your address.

There is NOT a "registration" requirement in California and the DROS procedure is a background check rather than a registration, so the fact that it is not "registered" is irrelevant.
Not entirely correct.

PPTs must go through an FFL in CA.
As far as handguns go - Registration is part of that transfer process. There is in fact a registration requirement for handguns in California.

Pre-Registration-Requirement handguns are grandfathered. If you had a handgun before the registration law went into effect, you're fine. However, once you transfer it - that gun is now registered to the person you transferred it to.

Same thing when you move into the state - you have to file a declaration of personal import. This is essentially registering your out-of-state purchased handgun. This is a requirement that you must meet within 60 days of moving to the state.

So - while there's no requirement to register grandfathered pre-registration guns, there is also no legal way to obtain one that does not cause the handgun to be registered to the new owner. That's where you get into some legal gray area.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-18-2010, 8:27 PM
Sinixstar Sinixstar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,520
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billgato View Post
So prior to going the do the PPT, is there a way to check the status of the handgun to be sure it has not been used in a crime?

Bill Gato
sure - take it the DOJ, tell them you think the gun may have been used in a crime and ask them to do a ballistic test.

Now let me know when you get it back, as it means the end is near.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-18-2010, 8:33 PM
billgato's Avatar
billgato billgato is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riverside, California
Posts: 494
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Default

Thanks for your help. It seems that there is no upside to buying this gun. I think it's best to look elsewhere.

I love how quickly you Calgunners come to the aid of a member in need of assistance.

Bill Gato
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-18-2010, 8:35 PM
OleCuss OleCuss is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 6,043
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinixstar View Post
Not entirely correct.

PPTs must go through an FFL in CA.
As far as handguns go - Registration is part of that transfer process. There is in fact a registration requirement for handguns in California.

Pre-Registration-Requirement handguns are grandfathered. If you had a handgun before the registration law went into effect, you're fine. However, once you transfer it - that gun is now registered to the person you transferred it to.

Same thing when you move into the state - you have to file a declaration of personal import. This is essentially registering your out-of-state purchased handgun. This is a requirement that you must meet within 60 days of moving to the state.

So - while there's no requirement to register grandfathered pre-registration guns, there is also no legal way to obtain one that does not cause the handgun to be registered to the new owner. That's where you get into some legal gray area.
As a further aside to what you're talking about?

There is a further Twilight Zone in which your pistol can reside. A lot of handgun registrations from somewhere in the time frame of the mid to late 1980s were destroyed. So you can have a handgun you purchased and legally registered (as required by law) but it is no longer registered. In order to sell that handgun I'm told you must first register that handgun (for the second time) and then you can sell it.

Personally, I think that it is best to retain such firearms as you were fully compliant with the law but the government still doesn't know you have it. That is a desirable situation, IMHO.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-18-2010, 8:36 PM
OleCuss OleCuss is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 6,043
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billgato View Post
Thanks for your help. It seems that there is no upside to buying this gun. I think it's best to look elsewhere.
.
.
.
Bill Gato
A wise man.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-18-2010, 8:41 PM
Sinixstar Sinixstar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,520
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
A wise man.
agreed.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-18-2010, 8:50 PM
ke6guj's Avatar
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
Moderator
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 909
Posts: 23,045
iTrader: 42 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
As a further aside to what you're talking about?

There is a further Twilight Zone in which your pistol can reside. A lot of handgun registrations from somewhere in the time frame of the mid to late 1980s were destroyed. So you can have a handgun you purchased and legally registered (as required by law) but it is no longer registered. In order to sell that handgun I'm told you must first register that handgun (for the second time) and then you can sell it..
you were told wrong. There is no legal requirement that a handgun that you want to sell must first be registered in your name.

The seller of this handgun can take it to a local FFL to do a PPT transfer to the buyer. If the handgun isn't stolen, it will be transfered to the buyer and registered to him, even if it was originally registered in a 3rd person's name. CADOJ realizes that unpapered transfers happen and it appears that they would just prefer that any new transfers happen properly through an FFL. If they cause issues with unregistered handguns being transfered through an FFL and try to confiscate it, they'll just chase all unpapered handguns deeper into the black market.
__________________
Jack



Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

FrontSight Training Course certificates available $25, PM for details on them and other options.
No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-18-2010, 8:57 PM
OleCuss OleCuss is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 6,043
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
you were told wrong. There is no legal requirement that a handgun that you want to sell must first be registered in your name.

The seller of this handgun can take it to a local FFL to do a PPT transfer to the buyer. If the handgun isn't stolen, it will be transfered to the buyer and registered to him, even if it was originally registered in a 3rd person's name. CADOJ realizes that unpapered transfers happen and it appears that they would just prefer that any new transfers happen properly through an FFL. If they cause issues with unregistered handguns being transfered through an FFL and try to confiscate it, they'll just chase all unpapered handguns deeper into the black market.
Thank you for the correction.

But is it possible that a portion of the reason the DOJ doesn't push the issue is that they know that they have a bunch of guns which were legally registered and that the DOJ effectively unregistered them (inadvertent as the unregistering may have been)?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-18-2010, 8:58 PM
Crom's Avatar
Crom Crom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,632
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
you were told wrong. There is no legal requirement that a handgun that you want to sell must first be registered in your name.

The seller of this handgun can take it to a local FFL to do a PPT transfer to the buyer. If the handgun isn't stolen, it will be transfered to the buyer and registered to him, even if it was originally registered in a 3rd person's name. CADOJ realizes that unpapered transfers happen and it appears that they would just prefer that any new transfers happen properly through an FFL. If they cause issues with unregistered handguns being transfered through an FFL and try to confiscate it, they'll just chase all unpapered handguns deeper into the black market.
I understand it this way too. Prior to 1991 private party transfers did not have to go through an FFL. So it is quite possible for the example to happen as you describe it.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in..._Firearms_Laws
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-18-2010, 9:15 PM
billgato's Avatar
billgato billgato is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riverside, California
Posts: 494
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Default

But since the history of the gun is unknown, it could open up avenues that my friend would not want to go through. Chances are there are no issues with the pistol. However, it is probably best left alone as it is.

My friend better make sure the gun is never used in such a way that it gets further scrutiny (such as in self-defense).

I will advise him of your advice.

Bill Gato
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-18-2010, 9:31 PM
chiselchst's Avatar
chiselchst chiselchst is offline
Very Nice Honey Badger
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Co Co County
Posts: 2,035
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

Prior to the PPT, can't he just call his local LEA and have them run the numbers to confirm it's not stolen? (I think that is what he meant..?)
__________________
My Opinion - Worth What You Paid For It...

DO NOT Use Amazon Smile! Use Shop42A.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by FremontJames View Post
I guess it depends on what your definition of law breaking is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Here, let me Google that for you ... :)

No, no, that would be cruel.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-18-2010, 9:48 PM
ke6guj's Avatar
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
Moderator
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 909
Posts: 23,045
iTrader: 42 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiselchst View Post
Prior to the PPT, can't he just call his local LEA and have them run the numbers to confirm it's not stolen? (I think that is what he meant..?)
many LEAs will require you to bring in the handgun to have the numbers run so that if it comes up stolen, they can confiscate it on the spot. If they told someone that the handgun was stolen over the phone and that it needed tobe turned in, how many times do you think that would happen?

So what is the difference between taking it to an LEA to have the numbers run, vs. taking it to an FFL to have it PPT'ed and having CADOJ run the numbers during the 10-day wait?
__________________
Jack



Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

FrontSight Training Course certificates available $25, PM for details on them and other options.
No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-18-2010, 10:31 PM
billgato's Avatar
billgato billgato is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riverside, California
Posts: 494
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Default

Would my friend get into trouble for not having registered it in the first place? If something comes up and the registration comes up to someone else, he could end up getting into trouble.

Probably best to leave everything alone. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Bill Gato
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:15 PM
Sinixstar Sinixstar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,520
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billgato View Post
Would my friend get into trouble for not having registered it in the first place? If something comes up and the registration comes up to someone else, he could end up getting into trouble.

Probably best to leave everything alone. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Bill Gato
Honestly - it all depends on the gun, the situation, and the circumstances about how he came to own it.

CA gun laws are vague, confusing, convoluted and non-nonsensical. As such, there are very few black and white answers to any legal gun question. Even when you think you've found one, there's exemptions, exceptions, loopholes, and counties where it doesn't apply.

There's situations where having that gun could land him in jail, some where it might get confiscated but not much else, and some where it just wouldn't much matter. To make matters worse, it also depends on the gun it's self. If it's an old enough gun - and conceivably predates the '91 PPT-FFL requirement, transferring it to would fly under the radar. However, if it had been registered at any point, and it was transferred to your friend outside of the PPT-FFL process, that was an illegal transfer. Now when he tries to transfer it to you, his name isn't going to match the name of the registered owner, and it will raise red flags. The question is how big of a flag will it raise and will with the outcome be? I personally wouldn't want to mess with it out of simple CYA tenancies.

It's also worth noting that there is no separate "registration" process for the most part. If he bought the gun and went through an FFL - it is effectively transfered. If he bought the gun face-to-face cash and carry at somebody's house, it was an illegal transfer. But again - whether that would jam things up really depends on if the gun was registered to the previous owner in the first place.

So - as has been said - without more information about the history of the gun and how your friend, and arguably even the previous owner, came in possession of it - and without more knowledge on the law - It's probably best just to avoid it. You're not going to end up in any trouble if you go to an FFL and try to transfer it, but your friend might.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:20 PM
Ron-Solo's Avatar
Ron-Solo Ron-Solo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,850
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinixstar View Post
Not entirely correct.

PPTs must go through an FFL in CA.

True, but the DROS procedure is not registration

As far as handguns go - Registration is part of that transfer process. There is in fact a registration requirement for handguns in California.

FALSE. There is no law that requires a handgun to be registered in California. DROS is a "Dealer Report Of Sale" and is not "registration" per se


Pre-Registration-Requirement handguns are grandfathered. If you had a handgun before the registration law went into effect, you're fine. However, once you transfer it - that gun is now registered to the person you transferred it to.

Same thing when you move into the state - you have to file a declaration of personal import. This is essentially registering your out-of-state purchased handgun. This is a requirement that you must meet within 60 days of moving to the state.

Not sure of the time line, but reasonably accurate except a DROS is NOT registration

So - while there's no requirement to register grandfathered pre-registration guns, there is also no legal way to obtain one that does not cause the handgun to be registered to the new owner. That's where you get into some legal gray area.

Once again, DROS is NOT registration per se. It does maintain a record in AFS regarding the purchaser.

There is no danger of purchasing the gun unless it has been reported stolen. The DROS system will check the serial number in AFS (Automated Firearm System) and NCIC for stolen records and will notify the transferring dealer to hold the transaction and notify the local law enforcement agency.

I have been in LE for 32 years and we would occasionally have both parties come into the lobby and have us run the serial number before going to a dealer to complete the transaction. Our policy was we would only run the serial number if the gun was physically present. If it came back stolen, it would be held and an investigation initiated. The risk falls on the seller to explain how they came into possession. Too many variables to predict how that would go...

My father was also an FFL and I handled many of his transactions while he was in business.
__________________
LASD Retired
1978-2011




If You Heard The Shot, You Weren't The Target
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:25 PM
POLICESTATE's Avatar
POLICESTATE POLICESTATE is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sunnyvale, PRK
Posts: 17,833
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

From CA DOJ website: http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#25
Quote:
How do I know if my firearms need to be registered?

There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers. However, you may submit a Firearm Ownership Record to the DOJ for any firearm you own. Having a Firearm Ownership Record on file with the DOJ may help in the return of your firearm if it is lost or stolen. With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer.
HOWEVER, go buy a new or used handgun from some of the dealers around the Bay Area and they automatically register it with the state as part of the sale. I think the difference is that although it is not required by law, it may be required for the dealer to register a handgun with the state as part of some lame FFL registration, I don't know why else they would do it?

Maybe some FFL can shed some light?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
There is no danger of purchasing the gun unless it has been reported stolen. The DROS system will check the serial number in AFS (Automated Firearm System) and NCIC for stolen records and will notify the transferring dealer to hold the transaction and notify the local law enforcement agency.

I have been in LE for 32 years and we would occasionally have both parties come into the lobby and have us run the serial number before going to a dealer to complete the transaction. Our policy was we would only run the serial number if the gun was physically present. If it came back stolen, it would be held and an investigation initiated. The risk falls on the seller to explain how they came into possession. Too many variables to predict how that would go...

My father was also an FFL and I handled many of his transactions while he was in business.
__________________
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.


Government Official Lies
. F r e e d o m . D i e s .
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:30 PM
Meplat's Avatar
Meplat Meplat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 6,919
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billgato View Post
Would my friend get into trouble for not having registered it in the first place? If something comes up and the registration comes up to someone else, he could end up getting into trouble.

Probably best to leave everything alone. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Bill Gato


This is just what the antis want, to intimidate us into not exercising our rights. If your friend has no reason to believe the gun in question was once stolen it is very unlikely it will be on the radar, even if it was stolen the chances of it happening are slight. All registrations are not checked against a ‘stolen gun’ data base.

I would go ahead if your friend came by the pistol honestly. If he did not come by it honestly or suspects it may have a tainted past and he wants to sell it to you, he is not your friend.

That’s just me. It’s your choice.

However, I would be very interested to know if anyone here knows of any real instance of anyone ever getting in trouble after submitting a gun for registration. I suspect there is a large dose of FUD involved in our musings.
__________________
Take not lightly liberty
To have it you must live it
And like love, don't you see
To keep it you must give it

"I will talk with you no more.
I will go now, and fight you."
(Red Cloud)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:34 PM
NIB's Avatar
NIB NIB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 418
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

So then why if I move into the state do I have 60 days to send off my paperwork and a check to essentially registrar my handguns if I bought them out of state if there is no registration of handguns.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:41 PM
Ron-Solo's Avatar
Ron-Solo Ron-Solo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,850
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NIB View Post
So then why if I move into the state do I have 60 days to send off my paperwork and a check to essentially registrar my handguns if I bought them out of state if there is no registration of handguns.
That is a separate requirement because you are "importing" them into the state.

Once again, there is no crime for possession of an "unregistered" handgun. There are sentence enhancements for using a handgun in a crime that does not have a DROS record in your name.

By the way, did I mention that California gun laws are convoluted and hard to understand? They make NO SENSE.
__________________
LASD Retired
1978-2011




If You Heard The Shot, You Weren't The Target
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:43 PM
ke6guj's Avatar
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
Moderator
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 909
Posts: 23,045
iTrader: 42 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NIB View Post
So then why if I move into the state do I have 60 days to send off my paperwork and a check to essentially registrar my handguns if I bought them out of state if there is no registration of handguns.
nobody has said that there is no registration of handguns. The point is that that it is not a crime to possess a handgun that is not registered.

yes, there are laws that deal with handgun importation and intrafamily transfers, and how they need to document that activity, but that does not mean that there is mandatory registration of all handguns.
__________________
Jack



Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

FrontSight Training Course certificates available $25, PM for details on them and other options.
No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:47 PM
Sinixstar Sinixstar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,520
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
From CA DOJ website: http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#25


HOWEVER, go buy a new or used handgun from some of the dealers around the Bay Area and they automatically register it with the state as part of the sale. I think the difference is that although it is not required by law, it may be required for the dealer to register a handgun with the state as part of some lame FFL registration, I don't know why else they would do it?

Maybe some FFL can shed some light?
This has always been my understanding of it. I understand DROS is not registration - but I always thought registration of handguns took place as part of the transfer process from the FFL.
In fact, if i'm not mistaken, of the two handguns I've bought in California- i believe both came with a form from the dealer proving the registration process had taken place, and that they were my guns legally. Paperwork is locked away in a safe place though - so I can't just go dig it up and confirm.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-19-2010, 10:40 AM
POLICESTATE's Avatar
POLICESTATE POLICESTATE is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sunnyvale, PRK
Posts: 17,833
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinixstar View Post
This has always been my understanding of it. I understand DROS is not registration - but I always thought registration of handguns took place as part of the transfer process from the FFL.
In fact, if i'm not mistaken, of the two handguns I've bought in California- i believe both came with a form from the dealer proving the registration process had taken place, and that they were my guns legally. Paperwork is locked away in a safe place though - so I can't just go dig it up and confirm.
Yeah same here, last pistol I bought here was definitely registered by the store, it was noted on my receipt. The revolver I bought prior to that was at Target Masters, who probably registered it not only with the state but also with the Feds, the Brady Bunch, LCAV and the Chinese PLA for all I know
__________________
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.


Government Official Lies
. F r e e d o m . D i e s .
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-19-2010, 11:16 AM
1911Luvr's Avatar
1911Luvr 1911Luvr is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Inland Empire
Posts: 1,295
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

I know people that have purchased firearms from private parties without doing the proper paperwork, mostly because they didn't know at the time, and I knew another guy who likes to think he is "off the grid" with his firearms so to speak, so he would buy guns from estate sales, etc. without doing paperwork so as to keep his ownership records secret. From what I've read above, it seems that if they ever wanted to sell them legally they cannot without fear of getting into trouble. If that is the case, would anyone who has an unregistered firearm ever want to "go legal" in the event they wanted to sell it? The guy I knew ended up with some nice guns on the cheap and though I never had any money at the time, I often thought about offering some cash if he came across something I liked. Looking back it seems a good thing I was broke because trying to be legal would end up being more trouble than it's worth.

I have recently been scouring pawn shops in search of a particular gun, but this thread makes me wonder about the guns those shops get in. With the sheer volume of guns that some shops take in, I can't imagine everything they take in is legally registered, so do they become legal by virtue of the shop being an FFL buying them?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-19-2010, 11:26 AM
ke6guj's Avatar
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
Moderator
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 909
Posts: 23,045
iTrader: 42 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911Luvr View Post
I have recently been scouring pawn shops in search of a particular gun, but this thread makes me wonder about the guns those shops get in. With the sheer volume of guns that some shops take in, I can't imagine everything they take in is legally registered, so do they become legal by virtue of the shop being an FFL buying them?
all items that a pawn shop acquire are supposed to be held for 30? days before they can be sold, and the serial numbers are forwarded to the cops. so, it is unlikely that you would buy a stolen firearm from a pawnshop since the numbers should have been checked before it was put up for sale, and again when the DROS to you was submitted.

And again, prior unpapered transfers do not make the handgun illegal. All htat CADOJ normally cares for is that the next transfer be done properly. An "unregistered" handgun is not destined to be unregistered forever.

When it gets DROSed to you, it will be registered in your name, and that is all you need to worry about. It doesn't matter if it went through 5 different people in un-papered transfers. All that matters is that when it is PPT'ed, it will now be listed in your name.
__________________
Jack



Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

FrontSight Training Course certificates available $25, PM for details on them and other options.
No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 07-21-2010, 9:46 PM
Calpoly93 Calpoly93 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Diego County (north)
Posts: 27
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Not to go off on a tangent...

So hypothetically, if a person were to have come into CA in the mid-90's, and did not notify DOJ, are they going to automatically be in trouble if they try to submit a Firearm Ownership Record for a pistol bought out-of-state from a dealer, as a resident of that fictitious state?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-21-2010, 10:14 PM
GuyW GuyW is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,303
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Mmmm, IIRC, for most crimes other than murder, there are statutes of limitation on prosecution.

So, perhaps an illegal PPT between otherwise-legal parties, may not be prosecutable after 3 years or ??

Hopefully an attorney will come along here and clean my mess up....
.

Last edited by GuyW; 07-22-2010 at 1:01 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-22-2010, 7:19 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 32,518
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calpoly93 View Post
So hypothetically, if a person were to have come into CA in the mid-90's, and did not notify DOJ, are they going to automatically be in trouble if they try to submit a Firearm Ownership Record for a pistol bought out-of-state from a dealer, as a resident of that fictitious state?
Mid-90s? No - that wasn't required until 1998.

Unless you plan to illegally CCW such a pistol, there's no good reason to register it if not required to do so by law - and planning an illegal act isn't a good reason, either.

See the wiki article on registration.
__________________
Calguns Wiki, Magazine Qs, Knife laws

Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-22-2010, 12:52 PM
Calpoly93 Calpoly93 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Diego County (north)
Posts: 27
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Thanks! That Wiki page had lots of great information!
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-22-2010, 2:06 PM
rromeo's Avatar
rromeo rromeo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Radford, VA
Posts: 5,681
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

So I'm still unclear on one bit. If I purchased a handgun in 1996 via PPT, is it registering California?
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-22-2010, 3:28 PM
gemini1's Avatar
gemini1 gemini1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 15 mins to the Bay bridge
Posts: 2,089
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calpoly93 View Post
So hypothetically, if a person were to have come into CA in the mid-90's, and did not notify DOJ, are they going to automatically be in trouble if they try to submit a Firearm Ownership Record for a pistol bought out-of-state from a dealer, as a resident of that fictitious state?
NO, you wont be in any trouble. I came back to Cali in '95 from Florida. Did'nt know about the 60 days or any gun registration requirements for new residents until I discovered CGN in '08. I called DOJ about the 60 day rule and they simply told me to fill up the form and pay the $19.00(?) fee.
My mistake was asking about it at CGN after I have sent in the paperworks to DOJ, that 60 day requirements was in effect I think in '98, I would have been GTG since I came back in '95.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-22-2010, 3:35 PM
gemini1's Avatar
gemini1 gemini1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 15 mins to the Bay bridge
Posts: 2,089
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
That is a separate requirement because you are "importing" them into the state.

Once again, there is no crime for possession of an "unregistered" handgun. There are sentence enhancements for using a handgun in a crime that does not have a DROS record in your name.

By the way, did I mention that California gun laws are convoluted and hard to understand? They make NO SENSE.

So what would happen if lets say a guy with properly stored handgun in his car is pulled over and cops finds out his gun is unregistered? Can they detain a guy for as long as it takes until they're satisfied the gun is clean? or can they let the guy go but confiscate the gun for further investigation?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-22-2010, 3:49 PM
Meplat's Avatar
Meplat Meplat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 6,919
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini1 View Post
or can they let the guy go but confiscate the gun for further investigation?
That is called theft and it happens all the time.
__________________
Take not lightly liberty
To have it you must live it
And like love, don't you see
To keep it you must give it

"I will talk with you no more.
I will go now, and fight you."
(Red Cloud)
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-22-2010, 6:14 PM
gemini1's Avatar
gemini1 gemini1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 15 mins to the Bay bridge
Posts: 2,089
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
That is called theft and it happens all the time.
So its goodbye handgun? No chance on ever getting it back (without lawyers help)?
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-22-2010, 6:26 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 32,518
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rromeo View Post
So I'm still unclear on one bit. If I purchased a handgun in 1996 via PPT, is it registering California?
Registered. Yes, if you mean 'two private individuals using a CA FFL to mediate a transfer' when you say 'PPT'.

At least it's registered to the extent that a particular make/model/caliber and serial number can be associated with a particular individual. If it looks, walks and quacks like registration ....
__________________
Calguns Wiki, Magazine Qs, Knife laws

Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:31 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.