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View Poll Results: Which would be easier to construct for a novice builder?
9mm AK 74 w/2XTM flat 7 63.64%
TNW Sumoi M31 4 36.36%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 08-16-2014, 8:09 PM
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Default Thinkin of a 9mm carbine. 2XTM flat AK 74 or TNW M31 Sumoi?

I've been stuck deciding between these two builds for a 9mm carbine as the next project here.

On one side, I have the AK tools and can work around those guys. Trouble is the barrel and welding of parts not meant for the AK design.

For the other the TNW Sumoi is perhaps the easiest M31 kit to put together, but I have absolutely no knowledge on the platform.

The cost factor is nearly the same. My primary concern just boils down to ease of construction and reliability after the build is done.

Question is this: For those that have done either, would you chose one or the other for any specific reasons as a first build?
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Old 08-16-2014, 8:31 PM
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what part on the AK would you have to weld?
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Old 08-16-2014, 8:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taquero07 View Post
what part on the AK would you have to weld?
The mag guide/cover I believe, but I don't know if anyone has come up with something newer that simply rivets in.
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:27 PM
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you shouldn't have to weld anything unless you're doing a milled reweld but that's for advanced builders. buy a flat from ak-builder and buy the rivets and everything else on there
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Old 08-17-2014, 11:39 AM
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TNW does not sell Suomi kits any longer. They appear to have relisted partial kits without a barrel or stock.
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Old 08-17-2014, 1:36 PM
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Originally Posted by greensoup View Post
TNW does not sell Suomi kits any longer. They appear to have relisted partial kits without a barrel or stock.
True, but a stock and barrel won't break the bank. A stock is like $50 on Ebay or BRPguns.com.

I've seen a barrel or two (12 in.) for $100. It just needs a shroud and extension.

http://www.tnwfirearms.com/product-p...-bkxx-xxxx.htm
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Old 08-17-2014, 9:00 PM
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I just got my my tnw and missed my extrw kit from mail man . In ca I vote for suomi . No mag lock!
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Old 08-17-2014, 9:59 PM
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Both kits you are considering require welding
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Old 08-18-2014, 7:36 AM
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Originally Posted by xsefan View Post
I just got my my tnw and missed my extrw kit from mail man . In ca I vote for suomi . No mag lock!
Not having a pistol grip is certainly a plus for the sumoi, but then I can always leave the grip off the AK too. When I get cheap before picking up kydex paddles, I just leave those off to stay compliant.

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Both kits you are considering require welding
Right. My main was concern was over receiver thickness. The '74 series receiver is pretty thin and I was concerned over warpage during construction, but then that would really fall under my own caution when tack welding and keeping a close eye on the work.
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Old 08-18-2014, 7:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRH View Post
The M31 is really, really heavy. For me the weight is a big negative to what I would want in a 9mm carbine. The AK 9mm would be a lot lighter and a better plinker in my opinion.
True, but I've had a few issues finding a comprehensive step-by-step build diagram for the AK. OTOH, I really am leaning more toward the AK with the predominant factor being exactly that. Excessive weight.
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  #11  
Old 08-18-2014, 7:52 AM
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I'm in the process of building a Suomi with TNW parts. I bought one of their almost complete kits. Seems pretty straight forward so far.
If you want a light 9MM, have you considered a Sten?
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Old 08-18-2014, 8:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Lugnuts View Post
I'm in the process of building a Suomi with TNW parts. I bought one of their almost complete kits. Seems pretty straight forward so far.
If you want a light 9MM, have you considered a Sten?
Well...yes. Both that and the Sterling.

My only concern was the build quality of the Sten. I was actually digging through an entire build list over at Indianapolis Ordnance and considered a vertical feed then changed my mind with both the TNW and AK kits thinking they involve less work. Even though I can get all of the parts in one place, it still came out cheaper to do the AK or TNW as well once I added up all of the parts.

With that said, I still have reservations on doing a skeleton stock Mk 3. If I can save a few more pennies, maybe I'll go that route instead.
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Old 08-18-2014, 9:01 AM
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/\ Very cool
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Old 08-18-2014, 10:18 AM
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Building a Sten isn't too bad. I built a Mk3 a few monthes ago. Its light and has almost no recoil and its featureless.
Here's the one I built.
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Old 08-18-2014, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Paulie Lugnuts View Post
Building a Sten isn't too bad. I built a Mk3 a few monthes ago. Its light and has almost no recoil and its featureless.
Here's the one I built.
Very nice !!!
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:19 AM
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Ugh, I wish Lichtenburgresearch on the 2XTM was still around...

Most of the posts out there are pretty old. Some dating back to '06 and '08 and a lot of links are dead. I'm still digging up what I can on this.

...but also looking more into that Sten, Paulie. Beautiful rifle if I dare say.
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:28 AM
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"the flat spot" still looks to have the 2XTM magwell kits for 16 bucks
ETA links http://www.theflatspot.net/suomi--2x...m-magwell.html


and ak builders have the flats
http://ak-builder.com/index.php?disp...oduct_id=29821
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:48 AM
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Jeepers and DRH, thanks for the links. Came across those and included them for the parts list.

I noticed a bushing was used for a pistol build with an uzi barrel.

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2761

Does anyone know if the sten barrel is bigger then the '74 barrel parts?
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:59 AM
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check out www.weaponsguild.com also (if you need to join the moto is ... builders helping builders ...) havnt been hanging there in some time but thats where "the flat spot" started never had any issues from them even before they started the website ....
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:06 PM
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Wait, found something here...

http://www.requiemarms.com/9-mm-ak-47-or-74-barrel

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check out www.weaponsguild.com also (if you need to join the moto is ... builders helping builders ...) havnt been hanging there in some time but thats where "the flat spot" started never had any issues from them even before they started the website ....
Thanks! I'll dig into that later. Gotta get back to work here.
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Old 08-18-2014, 1:27 PM
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Does anyone know if the sten barrel is bigger then the '74 barrel parts You mean the outside diameter? I can measure it when I get home if that helps you.
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Old 08-18-2014, 1:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Lugnuts View Post
Does anyone know if the sten barrel is bigger then the '74 barrel parts You mean the outside diameter? I can measure it when I get home if that helps you.
For the front trunnion? Yes please, if possible.

I crossed a forum that stated the Sten barrel is something like .795 or .800 wide. If that's the case, it'll need a shim if used or use a MAK 90 trunnion.

That being said, I stumbled across this: http://www.ak47.net/forums/t_4_51/155074_.html
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Old 08-18-2014, 2:12 PM
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I'm not sure there's a way measure the thicker part of a sten barrel once its installed. I'll let you know tomorrow.
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Old 08-18-2014, 2:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRH View Post
You are considering 9mm instead of 7.62x25 but this video is pretty informative. It looks like the 7.62x39 bolt face has to be sleeved for the smaller caliber.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZOw8znTyTQ

I have a bunch of 1919 barrels in .308 so I will go that route for the barrel. Plenty of material to cut down to the correct diameter.
Very cool. That will help with some tips. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Paulie Lugnuts View Post
I'm not sure there's a way measure the thicker part of a sten barrel once its installed. I'll let you know tomorrow.
Can do. I appreciate it, sir.
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Old 08-18-2014, 9:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRH View Post
A sten mk 3 barrel measured .70" dia at its thickest and .60" dia at the chamber end. You would want a mk 2 barrel which would be .90" at the thickest section and .85" right at the chamber end. If these aftermarket barrels below are the same profile as an original mg mk 2 barrel, .675" dia, you would have enough meat to turn down for the AK74 siteblock, gas block and hand guard retainer.

http://www.indianapolisordnance.com/sten_mk2.html
Shows as backordered. Damn.

I'll give them a call tomorrow to see when they expect more.

Nico lives local and he has a lathe. I'll see if he is willing to cut it.

...of if he has already seen this post, I ask: "Would you be willing to do that mi buen amigo?".
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Old 08-19-2014, 6:57 AM
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I thought I might be able to measure the barrel through the vent holes in the receiver, but no go.
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Old 08-19-2014, 6:44 PM
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A TNW Suomi build is SUPER easy. The 2xtm build is actually quite a bit of fab. I've got the parts, and have been putting it off for about 5 years now. The sten is another good choice.

Somewhere on my old computer I have a bunch of info off the lichtenburg research website. I'll dig around later. and see if I can find it.
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Old 08-19-2014, 7:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Lugnuts View Post
I thought I might be able to measure the barrel through the vent holes in the receiver, but no go.
No worry Paulie. I appreciate the effort.

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Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
A TNW Suomi build is SUPER easy. The 2xtm build is actually quite a bit of fab. I've got the parts, and have been putting it off for about 5 years now. The sten is another good choice.

Somewhere on my old computer I have a bunch of info off the lichtenburg research website. I'll dig around later. and see if I can find it.
That would be awesome to read for the build. I've been pretty bummed about the void left trying to find anything on it.

There's got to be a few other guys out there trying to dig up the same thing as well.
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:23 PM
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ok lets see if this works. attempting to attach a pdf.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf magwellinstallation.pdf (614.8 KB, 22 views)
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:01 PM
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pass and pass. Century has some Sterling 16" semi-autos coming in "soon"
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Old 08-22-2014, 4:02 PM
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This is the rest of what I had saved from the lichtenburg stuff. It seems like something is missing, but it's been a while....
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File Type: pdf resources.pdf (88.2 KB, 15 views)
File Type: pdf building2xtm.pdf (26.6 KB, 15 views)
File Type: pdf 2xtm_description.pdf (121.9 KB, 17 views)
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Old 08-23-2014, 6:10 AM
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tujungatoes, I owe you a beer. Thank you very much for including that.

I saved everything to my HD for later. I'll do some shopping next weekend, give the 2XTM build a shot, and see how it goes.

Since the Oct. show in Reno is coming up, I'll go source some sticks, block 'em, and bring those back. I think I should be done by then.
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