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  #1  
Old 07-12-2010, 5:38 PM
bigstick61 bigstick61 is offline
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Default Cartridges and Berdan Primer Sizes

Does anyone know if there exists a decent chart that shows which primer sizes go with which rifle cartridges, Berdan primers specifically. Even if I don't get into reloading right now, I have found suppliers of Berdan primers that will have them available soon as Tula USA will be importing them from Russia in the very near future and I intend to buy some primers in case the imports stop or run out too fast.

I know there will be people who will come here and say not to reload Berdan primed cases, but brass is expensive, for some cartridges prohibitively so (for me especially), and I have thousands of Berdan primed cases including for 8X56R, for which milsurp cases have been, from what I have read, been considered superior to the commercial brass currently available. The choice has already been made to reload Berdan cases, so I won't be talked out of it (I see people trying to do this all of the time on other sites).

Specifically, I desire to reload 7.62 NATO, 7.5 Swiss, .303 British (Pakistani, South African, and Iraqi; apparently this matters), and 8X56R (Nazi/Austrian). I may also reload the undamaged brass cases of 7.62X54R I have (Bulgarian in origin).
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Old 07-12-2010, 5:46 PM
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How do you plan to de-cap? Do you care to share your source of berdan primers?

One thing I have noticed is that a lot of surplus berdan primed brass is good for one firing only.
I bought some Boxer primed 7.62 nato from India and it was not even close to reloadable by my standards.
I'm not trying to talk you out of it since I would be very interested in doing it myself.

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Old 07-12-2010, 5:52 PM
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This may help answer your questions about Berdan primers:
http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/berdanprimers.html
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Old 07-12-2010, 6:37 PM
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That site ws inadequate and poorly organized, but it was the only thing I could find.
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Old 07-12-2010, 6:39 PM
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Good luck finding them i haven't seen any in awhile.
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Old 07-12-2010, 6:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotEnoughGuns View Post
How do you plan to de-cap? Do you care to share your source of berdan primers?

One thing I have noticed is that a lot of surplus berdan primed brass is good for one firing only.
I bought some Boxer primed 7.62 nato from India and it was not even close to reloadable by my standards.
I'm not trying to talk you out of it since I would be very interested in doing it myself.

Any of the distributors on the Tula USA website should do. From what I've heard the primers should be imported in the next month or two. I'm not sure if all of the sizes people might need will be imported, though; it seems their selection is somewhat limited.

Also, the Berdan priming should have no impact on the quality of the brass; that is another matter. However, from what I have read, some military brass does just fine. Supposedly Austrian 8X56R cases have longer lives than commercial ones made by Prvi. I think it is probably more a matter of who made them and how good a quality their manufacturing is than what sort of priming method is used.
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Old 07-12-2010, 6:43 PM
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Please share your source. I'd like to stash several thousand of any size I can get.
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Old 07-12-2010, 6:45 PM
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http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/ber...imensions.html
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Old 07-12-2010, 7:09 PM
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I've been thinking of just removing the anvil and drilling a center flash hole on the 8x56 and reloading with a slow powder and LRP and treating it like I'm using a magnum primer to account for the extra flash holes. Any thought on that idea?
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Old 07-12-2010, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryfe76 View Post
I've been thinking of just removing the anvil and drilling a center flash hole on the 8x56 and reloading with a slow powder and LRP and treating it like I'm using a magnum primer to account for the extra flash holes. Any thought on that idea?
There are a couple of methods of converting Berdan brass to take Boxer primers

http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearm...on-Method.html
http://users.ameritech.net/mchandler/primer.html
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  #11  
Old 07-12-2010, 7:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstick61 View Post
Does anyone know if there exists a decent chart that shows which primer sizes go with which rifle cartridges, Berdan primers specifically.
Here is a thread on Parallax Bill's C&R site where international ammo expert DocAV talks a little bit about which berdan primer sizes go with which cartridges...

http://milsurpshooter.net/topic/3718...t--Reload.html
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Old 07-12-2010, 9:20 PM
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Unfortunetly there is a multitude of berdan primer sizes and "strengths"
A common medium rifle size is .217" or 6.45mm and is known by different numbers depending on manufacturer. The RWS number is 1775.
Regarding conversion -- after removing old berdan, and before drilling new flash hole, support case from the inside and mash the "tit' down with a flat punch. This will close the two flash holes.
Some use a ball bearing to close the oversize primer pocket and a button or reamer to size to proper diameter.
Best to check pockect depth first as some berdans are "longer".
Lots of british berdans are .254, they can sometimes be modified to use shotshell primers, but it is sort of a lathe job.
It will be interesting to see just what is going to be imported and the cost.
my ha-penny --
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Old 07-12-2010, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Please share your source. I'd like to stash several thousand of any size I can get.
http://issuu.com/grafandsons/docs/gr...ns_retail_2010

Bottom of page 153, although they don't get specific on types. Grafs is not the only one that will be getting these from Tula USA from what I've heard. Right now they're sold out, so I'm assuming everyone jumped on the first batch right away.

This is the manufacturer:

http://tulammousa.com/products/non-c...erdan-primers/
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  #14  
Old 07-13-2010, 8:36 AM
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I called Grafs. The person I spoke said the Tula Berdan primers are not in stock and "are not on order", meaning there are none in the pipeline. I wouldn't assume they had a batch that everyone jumped on and they sold out, I would assume they never had any. They put them in their printed 2010 catalog in anticipation of having some in stock, but they aren't even listed on their web site. The person I spoke to said I could call in a backorder so in case they ever get any in the future I would be at the top of the list.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:53 AM
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I noticed on the Tula site that the berdan primers were 6mm for the 7.62x39 and 7.62 NATO -- That is smaller than the more common 6.45mm primer.
I would venture that only soviet bloc brass could be reloaded.
Since the primers appear to be "not available" their use is academic.
The 6mm diameter would suggest that this brass would be more easily converted to boxer primers. my ha-penny
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotEnoughGuns View Post
How do you plan to de-cap? Do you care to share your source of berdan primers?
Fill the case with water and remove your decapping pin. Run it through very fast and the water (which will not compress) will force it out...

Or, fill the case with water and use a center-punch (of the same diameter as the projectile) and a hammer. Make sure you are doing this over a hole, so the spent primer can escape. You might want to wear a swim suit for this one...
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Old 07-13-2010, 3:12 PM
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Or -- use a RCBS/Lachmiller berdan decapper -
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Old 07-13-2010, 3:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunboat View Post
Or -- use a RCBS/Lachmiller berdan decapper -
Yeah...

Or that.....


(...if you want carpal tunnel)
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:38 PM
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Lookie what I found at the Del Mar gun show today...sorry to gloat...

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B9d...thkey=CISz1Z4O

Last edited by kkritter; 07-17-2010 at 10:40 PM..
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  #20  
Old 07-17-2010, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkritter View Post
Lookie what I found at the Del Mar gun show today...sorry to gloat...

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B9d...thkey=CISz1Z4O
Link doesn't work.
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  #21  
Old 07-17-2010, 11:28 PM
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I didn't see that box
$85 for how many primers?
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:41 PM
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Almost 2K, one of the packages was opened and taped shut. I didn't count the number in it but I'm sure it was over 200. Plus 7 sealed 250 ct. packages. I asked the very nice older gentleman if he had any berdan primers, he said he did but couldn't find them. Turned out they were in an ammo can he couldn't get open, a younger fellow got the can open and....nirvana....these fit GP11 but are a touch shallower that what came out. I'm gonna reload 20 and make sure they don't set too deep and miss fire. I've been working on this project for months...even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while....oh yea, got a Hornady 7.5 die set for $25.00 as well, it was a good show for once...
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Old 07-18-2010, 5:36 PM
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Here are some RWS Berdan primer #'s, sizes and use from 2004

4506 -- .117dia (4.5mm) -- .09 hi --- Small pistol
4520 -- .117d --- .08 hi ---Small rifle
4521 -- .117d -- .09 hi -- 9mm Luger
5005 -- .197d -- .09 hi -- non-standard Large (this may be the Tula size)
5608 -- .217d -- .11 hi -- Standard NATO
5620 *** .217d --- .10hi -- Most common Berdan Rifle primer
6000 --- .250d -- .11hi -- Large rifle -- (303brit?)
6504 -- .254d (6.45mm) -- .09hi -- large Rifle - Like 11mm Mauser
6507 -- .245d -- .133hi -- Big boys like the Brit Nitros - Same as #172 Eley
There are a multitude of other sizes, makers, and dimensions depending on the age, country of origin and perhaps political view points.
my ha-penny
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