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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 07-07-2010, 1:02 PM
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Default is a folding stock legal in ca in an AK47?

If the folded dimension is 26 inches or longer with a pistol grip, is it legal in ca?
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Old 07-07-2010, 1:09 PM
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I think it has to be 31 inches, so if u put on a fake can or long muzzle brake to make it the legal length when folded, your O.K. I could be wrong, someone correct me if i am.
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Old 07-07-2010, 1:22 PM
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It's 30" OAL but people do 30.5 or 31" to be safe.
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Old 07-07-2010, 1:24 PM
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A folded or unfolded, fire-able, centerfire rifle, between 26 and 30 inches is considered an assault weapon. According to the Interactive Chart.
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Old 07-07-2010, 1:34 PM
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Z ME FLY is correct. The ak will have to have an aol of at least 30" folded to be legal along with the other neccessary California evils such as the bullet button. -Ben
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Old 07-07-2010, 1:39 PM
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Originally Posted by aslowdodge View Post
If the folded dimension is 26 inches or longer with a pistol grip, is it legal in ca?
The length is 30 inches or longer, and as long as you have a magazine lock/fixed magazine, you're GTG.


EDIT: Removed FUD. Sorry about that.
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Old 07-07-2010, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by squimp View Post
A folded or unfolded, fire-able, centerfire rifle, between 26 and 30 inches is considered an assault weapon. According to the Interactive Chart.
If it is semi-auto AND centerfire, then anything less that 30" OAL (in its shortest fireable configuration) then it would be an AW.


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Originally Posted by Turo View Post

This would be correct if the rifle in question had a detachable magazine, but I'm sure the OP is talking about one with a magazine lock or fixed mag. So, unless the magazine is detachable, you're wrong.
the 30" rule applies to all semi-auto centerfire rifles. It doesn't matter if it has a fixed or detachable magazine.
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Old 07-07-2010, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
the 30" rule applies to all semi-auto centerfire rifles. It doesn't matter if it has a fixed or detachable magazine.
Oh crud, I totally read that wrong. My bad, I'll edit my post.
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Old 07-08-2010, 1:38 AM
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Also note:
Overall length must be measured with the stock folded/collapsed.
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Old 07-08-2010, 2:29 AM
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For semi-auto centerfire long gun:
Federal = 26" min. with extended stock (longest OAL)
CA: 30" min. with folded stock (shortest OAL).
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  #11  
Old 07-17-2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bigthaiboy View Post
For semi-auto centerfire long gun:
Federal = 26" min. with extended stock (longest OAL)
CA: 30" min. with folded stock (shortest OAL).
So where do you measure from on the barrel end? If I have a FH on the gun, can it be part of the 30" (i'm in cali), or is it without muzzle attachments?

And, does anyone know what the OAL would be on a Saiga 7.62 if i put on an Ace Folder? I'm considering one...

I guess I could buy the longest one if needed to be legal, but don't want to if not necessary.

Thanks, all..
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  #12  
Old 07-17-2010, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by icefire View Post
So where do you measure from on the barrel end? If I have a FH on the gun, can it be part of the 30" (i'm in cali), or is it without muzzle attachments?

And, does anyone know what the OAL would be on a Saiga 7.62 if i put on an Ace Folder? I'm considering one...

I guess I could buy the longest one if needed to be legal, but don't want to if not necessary.

Thanks, all..
The OAL is measured the entire length of the rifle including the FH / MB. As an example, you could fix a bayonet or a banana on the rifle and that would be included in the OAL. You would however be violating CA AW law if you removed or ate the bayonet/ banana.

An Ace folder on any AK pattern rifle with a 16.3" barrel would generally have an OAL of about 27" or 28". Use something like this. It's an inexpensive and easy solution. They also do a 2" version as well fot $9.99: http://www.cncwarrior.com/comersus/s...?idProduct=170
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:14 PM
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I just want to point out there back in the early 1990s after Roberti-Roos took effect in CA that there were some imported Norinco MAK-90 AKM clones that had both a thumbhole stock and an underfolding metal stock in place folded up (but not permanently locked) against the receiver. It was a total hackjob, but these rifles were not ordered off the market by CA-DOJ.

Here's a picture of one with the thumbhole stock removed and the underfolding metal stock extended:

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Old 07-17-2010, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthaiboy View Post
The OAL is measured the entire length of the rifle including the FH / MB. As an example, you could fix a bayonet or a banana on the rifle and that would be included in the OAL. You would however be violating CA AW law if you removed or ate the bayonet/ banana.

An Ace folder on any AK pattern rifle with a 16.3" barrel would generally have an OAL of about 27" or 28". Use something like this. It's an inexpensive and easy solution. They also do a 2" version as well fot $9.99: http://www.cncwarrior.com/comersus/s...?idProduct=170
Thanks! exactly what I wanted to know, with links that help as well..

This forum at it's best..
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  #15  
Old 07-17-2010, 12:25 PM
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My 30 1/8" OAL (folded), and 16 1/4" barrel CA legal bullet buttoned Yugo.



The Yugo is 25.5" OAL folded without FH attached so you'll need a minimum 5" muzzle device to make it legal for CA.
I had to place a washer behind the FH over the muzzle to get beyond the 30" minimum.
There is no need to make the FH permanent for 30" requirement but I do recommend at least it requiring the use of a tool to remove it. I cut a notch in mine to catch the FSB detent which cannot be worked by hand because of it's depth. I would hate to have the concern of the FH unscrewed by hand (by accident) creating an AW.
If the FH is attached to obtain the minimum 16" barrel requirement it needs to be a permanent attachment.
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvt. Cowboy View Post
I just want to point out there back in the early 1990s after Roberti-Roos took effect in CA that there were some imported Norinco MAK-90 AKM clones that had both a thumbhole stock and an underfolding metal stock in place folded up (but not permanently locked) against the receiver. It was a total hackjob, but these rifles were not ordered off the market by CA-DOJ.
Here's a picture of one with the thumbhole stock removed and the underfolding metal stock extended:

if it wasn't actually a listed MAK-90, why would it have been ordered off the market. Because of the "AK series" language? Well, I remember buying a SLR-95 during the mid/late 90's, so that wasn't it.

remember, during the 90's, there wasn't a CA features ban yet.
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
if it wasn't actually a listed MAK-90, why would it have been ordered off the market. Because of the "AK series" language? Well, I remember buying a SLR-95 during the mid/late 90's, so that wasn't it.

remember, during the 90's, there wasn't a CA features ban yet.
That's right, but you might recall that the laws were so new and the hysteria level so high against 'assault weapons' that CA law enforcement was just basically regarding everything that even looked like an assault weapon as contraband. And they had two brand new laws to misinterpret and give you the business with: Roberti-Roos and the 1989 Federal import ban.

Those were days where although a lot of CA and Federally compliant "AKs" and "ARs" were legally sold right across the counter, you were pretty much on your own the moment you walked out of the store with it.

Anyone who thinks that it's bad today with the occasional "OLL" misinterpretations by overzealous LEOs and DAs or how it was just a few years ago when people realized that after Kasler that they could indeed own CA-compliant "OLL" rifles ... Well, back 20 years ago the cops were confiscating rifles and DAs were tricking or pressuring defendants to plead out to a misdemeanor for perfectly legal rifles being perfectly legally possessed.
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Old 07-18-2010, 7:21 AM
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As noted the underfolding stock with a normal barrel/flash hider is under 26" o.a.l. when folded so even if you have a r.a.w. AK you need a slightly longer flash-hider in order for it not to be considerred a SBR in California.
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Old 07-18-2010, 7:54 AM
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Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
As noted the underfolding stock with a normal barrel/flash hider is under 26" o.a.l. when folded so even if you have a r.a.w. AK you need a slightly longer flash-hider in order for it not to be considerred a SBR in California.
SBR, no. Too short to meet federal OAL, yes. SBR is an NFA item with a barrel length under 16"
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Old 07-18-2010, 8:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
SBR, no. Too short to meet federal OAL, yes. SBR is an NFA item with a barrel length under 16"
SBR is also a California term referring to a rifle under 26" in length. See California Penal Code Section 12020 and why I stated "in California".

An AK with an underfolding stock is NOT too short to meet Federal OAL as they measure with stock extended.

Additionally, under Federal law, a rifle with a barrel length of 16" or greater but with an OAL of less than 26" with stock extended is also a SBR.
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Old 07-18-2010, 9:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
SBR is also a California term referring to a rifle under 26" in length. See California Penal Code Section 12020 and why I stated "in California".

An AK with an underfolding stock is NOT too short to meet Federal OAL as they measure with stock extended.

Additionally, under Federal law, a rifle with a barrel length of 16" or greater but with an OAL of less than 26" with stock extended is also a SBR.
I stand corrected, once again California law makes no sense. A barrel is a barrel, a short barrel is a short barrel. If the barrel is legal length, why would you say that rifle is a short barrel rifle?
Whatever.

From the DOJ website.
(2) As used in this section, a "short-barreled rifle" means any of the following:
< span class="description">(A) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.(B) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.

(C) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
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Old 07-18-2010, 9:46 AM
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Why can't someone make an AK pistol with the folding stock permanently pinned in the closed position, eliminating the need for OAL requirements and 16"+ barrels? It's done with the PPS-43 pistols. You don't have to worry about 922(r) anymore either.


Credit to Norse Armory for the pic.

Last edited by Barabas; 07-18-2010 at 9:49 AM..
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Barabas View Post
Why can't someone make an AK pistol with the folding stock permanently pinned in the closed position, eliminating the need for OAL requirements and 16"+ barrels? It's done with the PPS-43 pistols. You don't have to worry about 922(r) anymore either.


Credit to Norse Armory for the pic.
A single-shot exempt pistol can have a maximum barrel length of 16". An AK barrel is 16.3", so it would need to be shortened prior to being pressed onto a pistol receiver.

BTW. The PPsh-43 and MP-40 pistols built by InterOrdnance, which has the permanently fixed stocks, have been approved by BATF. IO sent them sample pistols and received approval in writing for that model, that the permanent method of fixing the stocks met Federal requirements for a pistol.
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Old 07-24-2010, 8:36 AM
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Originally Posted by nicoroshi View Post
My 30 1/8" OAL (folded), and 16 1/4" barrel CA legal bullet buttoned Yugo.



The Yugo is 25.5" OAL folded without FH attached so you'll need a minimum 5" muzzle device to make it legal for CA.
I had to place a washer behind the FH over the muzzle to get beyond the 30" minimum.
There is no need to make the FH permanent for 30" requirement but I do recommend at least it requiring the use of a tool to remove it. I cut a notch in mine to catch the FSB detent which cannot be worked by hand because of it's depth. I would hate to have the concern of the FH unscrewed by hand (by accident) creating an AW.
If the FH is attached to obtain the minimum 16" barrel requirement it needs to be a permanent attachment.
Where did you get that muzzle device? I had a link to a place that sold something like it, but now I can't find it. I'm about to order a M70 underfolder kit...
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Old 07-24-2010, 1:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
SBR is also a California term referring to a rifle under 26" in length. See California Penal Code Section 12020 and why I stated "in California".

An AK with an underfolding stock is NOT too short to meet Federal OAL as they measure with stock extended.

Additionally, under Federal law, a rifle with a barrel length of 16" or greater but with an OAL of less than 26" with stock extended is also a SBR.
True, my KRISS Super V with length folded is 16" and open is 24" in SBR format. In CRB format its like 34" open and 26" folded.

California has the OAL of 30" for centerfire rifles as others have posted.
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Old 07-24-2010, 2:02 PM
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Just as long as the OAL is over 30", when the stock is folded, its legal.

From the end of an AK receiver to the tip of a 16" barrel, without a muzzle device, its about 25" OAL. With a bayonet attached, and the stock folded, the 30" min OAL requirement is met, but a lot of ranges wont let you shoot with a bayo on.

Another way to do it is get a 5.5"+ muzzle device and screw it on. There are extended muzzle brakes, fake cans, and barrel extensions that'll work.
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Old 07-24-2010, 2:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthaiboy View Post
A single-shot exempt pistol can have a maximum barrel length of 16". An AK barrel is 16.3", so it would need to be shortened prior to being pressed onto a pistol receiver.

BTW. The PPsh-43 and MP-40 pistols built by InterOrdnance, which has the permanently fixed stocks, have been approved by BATF. IO sent them sample pistols and received approval in writing for that model, that the permanent method of fixing the stocks met Federal requirements for a pistol.
Can you cite a source for this? I never knew that there was a limit to how long a handgun barrel could be. I understand that if it's under 16", it is considered "conceallable" but, isn't it possible to have a handgun which has a barrel over 16"?
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Old 06-08-2013, 4:18 PM
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Sorry to bring this thread back up from the dead, but I didn't want to start a new thread and sound like a n3wb.

Anyone know the length of the KRG Whiskey 3 chassis for the Remington 700 + maybe a 20+ inch barrel? What barrel length + muzzle device would I have to go with to get 30+ inches for legality purposes? If not, I might have to go with the fixed version.

http://www.kineticresearchgroup.com/products/w3c.php
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Old 06-08-2013, 4:18 PM
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Sorry to bring this thread back up from the dead, but I didn't want to start a new thread and sound like a n3wb.

Anyone know the length of the KRG Whiskey 3 chassis for the Remington 700 + maybe a 20+ inch barrel? What barrel length + muzzle device would I have to go with to get 30+ inches for legality purposes? If not, I might have to go with the fixed version.

http://www.kineticresearchgroup.com/products/w3c.php
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Old 06-08-2013, 4:32 PM
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It needs to be over 30" OAL. If there is a flash hider/brake, it would need to be pinned/welded on if included in the measurements.
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Old 06-08-2013, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilSpecMonkey View Post
Sorry to bring this thread back up from the dead, but I didn't want to start a new thread and sound like a n3wb.

Anyone know the length of the KRG Whiskey 3 chassis for the Remington 700 + maybe a 20+ inch barrel? What barrel length + muzzle device would I have to go with to get 30+ inches for legality purposes? If not, I might have to go with the fixed version.

http://www.kineticresearchgroup.com/products/w3c.php
why would you need 30+" inches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlliedArmory View Post
It needs to be over 30" OAL. If there is a flash hider/brake, it would need to be pinned/welded on if included in the measurements.
no requirement that a 700 be 30" OAL.
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Old 06-08-2013, 6:56 PM
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Default Holy Necrothread, Batman!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilSpecMonkey View Post
Anyone know the length of the KRG Whiskey 3 chassis for the Remington 700 + maybe a 20+ inch barrel? What barrel length + muzzle device would I have to go with to get 30+ inches for legality purposes? If not, I might have to go with the fixed version.
For a bolt-action rifle, the overall length needs to be 26" or greater.

The overall length of 30" or greater is for semi-auto centerfire rifles.
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  #33  
Old 06-08-2013, 9:01 PM
Mamluke Mamluke is offline
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I use Aimsmall muzzle break, which makes my rifle barely over 30 inches OAL, with the stock folded ...

I have photos of the rifle & the muzzle break on my CGN profile page ... and here are some more:






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  #34  
Old 06-19-2013, 4:36 PM
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Hoologan Hoologan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C_1 View Post
From the end of an AK receiver to the tip of a 16" barrel, without a muzzle device, its about 25" OAL.
I installed an AMD 65 Extended MB on my 16" barreled Egyptian Maadi Sidefolder and the overall is 30.25" (end of MB to rear trunnion tab).



From the end of the MB to the rear of the receiver is 28.75", but this shouldn't matter because the Maadi uses a standard rear trunnion with the tab sticking out the rear, which is included in the measurement, right?

(not my photo)
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