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  #1  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:34 PM
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Default aluminum case ammo vs Brass?

I avoid steel cased ammo at all cost but is there any problems with the Aluminum vs the brass case stuff? Both my center fire guns are 9mm if that makes a difference? (Ruger p95/S&W 910s)
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  #2  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:36 PM
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can't collect and reload aluminum casings.

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Originally Posted by b.thomas View Post
I avoid steel cased ammo at all cost...
any particular reason?

Last edited by i1800collect; 06-29-2010 at 10:39 PM..
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  #3  
Old 06-30-2010, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b.thomas View Post
I avoid steel cased ammo at all cost but is there any problems with the Aluminum vs the brass case stuff? Both my center fire guns are 9mm if that makes a difference? (Ruger p95/S&W 910s)
If you don't reload or if you don't collect brass to resell/reuse, i highly suggest you use steel. Its cheaper than all alternatives and don't listen to the crap on the internet about steel ruining guns. If its a modern gun it should handle it without any problems, the wear from steel cases vs brass/aluminum cases is negligible at best. The steel used is very very soft if that is any comfort.
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:08 AM
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Aluminum is a great, cheaper alternative to brass ammo if you don't reload. Nothing wrong with it, pretty clean as well. Never any problems with Blazer Aluminum for me after maybe 600 rounds.
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:11 AM
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The casing on steel case ammo is just as soft as brass cases. The alumium casings are just as good.
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:55 AM
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Aluminum is fine.

Steel case may be soft enough, but they always have some coating on them that gums up chambers.

By the time you might have caused any additional wear to your gun from these types of ammo, you allready saved enough money to pay for the replacement parts.
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Old 06-30-2010, 6:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i1800collect View Post
can't collect and reload aluminum casings.

Generally speaking... this is true.
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Old 06-30-2010, 7:16 AM
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Another advantage of aluminum cased ammo is that they are lighter in weight compared to brass and steel.

Last edited by Günter; 06-30-2010 at 7:23 AM..
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Old 06-30-2010, 7:59 AM
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I have shot cases and cases of CCI Blazer AL cased ammo. Its good to go.
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Old 06-30-2010, 8:02 AM
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Alum casing for handgun ammo is known to be dangerous, since in rapid fire the aluminum can actually melt due to the heat in the chamber. According to a credible study 40% of Alum casing ammo users experience at least one explosion within 200 rounds.

Send me info on where you are looking to get the stuff, and how much it is so I can get a class action lawsuit started.







WARNING: before posting scientifically sound skepticism to this statement, please see post 40.
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Old 06-30-2010, 8:19 AM
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After approx. 2000+ rounds (spanning 16 years) of shooting CCI alum. cased 9mm I have never had a problem with function. Funny this should come up now. On Monday I went shooting and took some older Blazers w/me. One came out of the box looking like this. First problem ever with Blazers.

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Old 06-30-2010, 8:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalNRA View Post
Alum casing for handgun ammo is known to be dangerous, since in rapid fire the aluminum can actually melt due to the heat in the chamber. According to a credible study 40% of Alum casing ammo users experience at least one explosion within 200 rounds.

Send me info on where you are looking to get the stuff, and how much it is so I can get a class action lawsuit started.
You can't post "According to a credible study" w/o actually giving us a link to this study w/o someone call BS. Was this out of Full auto, was it rifle or pistol ammo? Was the rapid firing constant or in intervals? How did the cases melt? Did they extract from the chamber after they were deformed? Did the gun KABOOM?

I have shot 3 cases of this ammo at a Todd Green's Aim Fast Hit Fast in the last two years. Todd himself shoots quite a bit of this ammo through his 9mm pistols.
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Last edited by 45R; 06-30-2010 at 8:37 AM..
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2010, 9:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusionstar View Post
If you don't reload or if you don't collect brass to resell/reuse, i highly suggest you use steel. Its cheaper than all alternatives and don't listen to the crap on the internet about steel ruining guns. If its a modern gun it should handle it without any problems, the wear from steel cases vs brass/aluminum cases is negligible at best. The steel used is very very soft if that is any comfort.
I agree with this statement.
My 9's all feed everything I put in them with few exceptions.
I use Wolf and Blazer depending on what is cheaper.
I burn up a lot of ammo and buy by the case. The difference between steel/aluminum vs brass ammo in terms of dollars is tremendous.
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  #14  
Old 06-30-2010, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalNRA View Post
Alum casing for handgun ammo is known to be dangerous, since in rapid fire the aluminum can actually melt due to the heat in the chamber. According to a credible study 40% of Alum casing ammo users experience at least one explosion within 200 rounds.

Send me info on where you are looking to get the stuff, and how much it is so I can get a class action lawsuit started.

Really? Care to cite a reference on this?

I guess I should go to Vegas huh? I've loaded and shot over 2000 of these. Either I'm really LUCKY or you're spreading FUD.

(NOTE: I don't recommend re-loading with aluminum cases. This was an experiment and I check each and every case)

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Last edited by Corbin Dallas; 06-30-2010 at 9:09 AM..
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  #15  
Old 06-30-2010, 9:07 AM
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I've shot a couple thousand CCI Blazer alum .45 rounds through my HK with zero malfunctions. Since I've actually never had a single FTF, FTE, etc. with my HK with any ammo, I guess that means the CCI alum ammo at least did all that was expected of it.
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Old 06-30-2010, 9:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusionstar View Post
If you don't reload or if you don't collect brass to resell/reuse, i highly suggest you use steel. Its cheaper than all alternatives and don't listen to the crap on the internet about steel ruining guns. If its a modern gun it should handle it without any problems, the wear from steel cases vs brass/aluminum cases is negligible at best. The steel used is very very soft if that is any comfort.
that reminds me of when I was at big 5 looking at some .45 fmj (when they actualy had ammo) and I asked to see a box, the guy said oh those arent good to use because they will mess up your gun. I said why? he said something I can remember so I just bought some winchester
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  #17  
Old 06-30-2010, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Alum casing for handgun ammo is known to be dangerous, since in rapid fire the aluminum can actually melt due to the heat in the chamber. According to a credible study 40% of Alum casing ammo users experience at least one explosion within 200 rounds.
Melting point of AL is 660.32 °C (1220.58 °F) [MP of brass is about 50% higher, exact value depends on composition].

How hot does a rapid-fire gun barrel GET? I couldn't find data on modern machine guns, but found this about a 1914 Hotchkiss:

Quote:
The French Hotchkiss had a rate of fire of approximately 450 rounds per minute of 8 mm Lebel ammunition, .... The gun could sustain continuous firing of about 120 aimed shots per minute almost indefinitely ( US War Department Handbook,1917 ) except for occasional barrel changes (during continuous fire, approximately every 1,000 rounds) which were quick and easy to perform with a special wrench. The barrel could attain a temperature of about 400 °C, at which temperature it would be dark red in color. At this point the barrel dissipated heat as fast as it was generated. This only occurred after long continuous firing in a combat emergency situation....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchki...14_machine_gun

I have a hard time believing that a modern machine gun barrel gets to 1220.58 °F. And wouldn't the powder cook off before the AL casing melts?

As others have said, let's have a cite supporting the assertion. Otherwise it's FUD.
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:24 AM
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We used to get Blazer aluminum as practice ammo at one agency I worked at and I've shot probably 15K or 20K of it over the years. Never an issue, always went bang. We'd use the cases for plinking / betting after quals were done and then sweep up all the empties and recycle them.

Made our ammo budget go a lot farther.
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  #19  
Old 06-30-2010, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Günter View Post
Another advantage of aluminum cased ammo is that they are lighter in weight compared to brass and steel.
your right, but you will not be able to notice the difference!
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:35 AM
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I forgot to say, i do have about 1/20 rounds of the aluminum cased stuff jam in my 1911 for some reason. I have not ran it through my glock yet .
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911Operator View Post
your right, but you will not be able to notice the difference!
Actually, you will notice. Aluminum cases weigh about 29gr whereas brass cases weigh about 85gr

Big difference when your talking about 10 rounds +
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:12 AM
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Other than some indoor ranges not wanting you to shoot non-brass ammo, I had no problems with aluminum cases.
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:48 PM
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Certain calibers should not be used in carbines.

Winchester and Marlin advise against using Blazer 44 Mag in their rifles, and Ruger advises against using Blazer 40 S&W in their PC4 Carbine — however it's OK to use Blazer 9mm in the PC9.

I've had Blazer extraction issues in my CZ SP-01, but they run great in my other 9s.
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:00 PM
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Default Huh ? Again ?

CalNRA do you know the MELTING temperature of aluminum is ? The powder will go off long before that temperature is reached. I can waste 20 minutes and find links if prodded. It's 1220 F and brass is 1700 F. A handgun containing ammo is going to reach 1200 F ?? The firing chamber where the round is laying gets exposed to 1200 F for how long before it heats up and explodes ? What exactly is the mechanism of the failure ??? Does it go off in the magazine ? Who is holding onto anything this hot ??

If you are really wishing or planning to sue I would think about it a little more.

A composite weapon will suffer some deformation well below 1200 F I would think. Glock ? Ruger at 1200 F ?? ?? ???
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i1800collect View Post
can't collect and reload aluminum casings.
blah... i fail metallurgy....

Last edited by Scratch705; 06-30-2010 at 4:29 PM.. Reason: alum does not stick to magnet
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:09 PM
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alu cases collect a magnet? is it because the primer?
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
one thing though, very easy to collect for recycling.... just need a big enough magnet! the steel and alum casings fly right up
Really? And all this time I was under the impression aluminum was a non-ferrous metal...
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:51 PM
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I use Blazer aluminum cased rounds, with no issues whatsoever.
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbin Dallas View Post
Actually, you will notice. Aluminum cases weigh about 29gr whereas brass cases weigh about 85gr

Big difference when your talking about 10 rounds +
actually you wont:

these are for 45acp (no primer):

10x brass @5.5 grams each=
55 grams=
1.94 ounces=
0.121 pounds

10x aluminum @2.0 grams each=
20 grams=
.70 ounces=
0.044 pounds

yes aluminum is almost 3 times lighter but at 0.121 vs 0.044 pounds! c'mon who is really going to notice that?????? its not in any way a huge difference. your not going to notice that unless you load it yourself or see the ammo, and if you do maybe you should'nt be shooting a gun. since recoil may hurt your sensitive hands. aluminum is cheap but in my experience, it is not as reliable as brass is. if I could id have all my casings in nickel.
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Old 06-30-2010, 2:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CalNRA View Post

Send me info on where you are looking to get the stuff, and how much it is so I can get a class action lawsuit started.
Good luck with that.................
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Old 06-30-2010, 2:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911Operator View Post
actually you wont:

these are for 45acp (no primer):

10x brass @5.5 grams each=
55 grams=
1.94 ounces=
0.121 pounds

10x aluminum @2.0 grams each=
20 grams=
.70 ounces=
0.044 pounds

yes aluminum is almost 3 times lighter but at 0.121 vs 0.044 pounds! c'mon who is really going to notice that?????? its not in any way a huge difference. your not going to notice that unless you load it yourself or see the ammo, and if you do maybe you should'nt be shooting a gun. since recoil may hurt your sensitive hands. aluminum is cheap but in my experience, it is not as reliable as brass is. if I could id have all my casings in nickel.

If you're ever in the area, I'll put a 10 round mag in your hand with the aluminum case vs a 10 round with brass.

You will feel the difference.
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Old 06-30-2010, 2:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbin Dallas View Post
If you're ever in the area, I'll put a 10 round mag in your hand with the aluminum case vs a 10 round with brass.

You will feel the difference.
lol, i did, i have 2 boxed of the blazer ammo in my house. did not notice a diference. also, my 1911 weights 32oz or so. and i defenatlly did not notice it there either.
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Old 06-30-2010, 2:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbin Dallas View Post
If you're ever in the area, I'll put a 10 round mag in your hand with the aluminum case vs a 10 round with brass.

You will feel the difference.
oh and if you do notice such a small weight deference, you should check you bullets. I reload 45acp and every round is different, one will be 230.1 grains , another 230.5 grains, and so on..... one time i weighed one and it was 231.6 grains. and one was 228.5 grains. so you never know.
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Old 06-30-2010, 2:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalNRA View Post
Alum casing for handgun ammo is known to be dangerous, since in rapid fire the aluminum can actually melt due to the heat in the chamber. According to a credible study 40% of Alum casing ammo users experience at least one explosion within 200 rounds.

Send me info on where you are looking to get the stuff, and how much it is so I can get a class action lawsuit started.
Love the sarcasm. Good job trying to get location and price info to get cheap ammo!

BTW, I'd like to join that lawsuit with you, so let me know where this dangerous stuff is, and how much it's going for so I can start calculating potential damages.

Sponge
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Old 06-30-2010, 3:19 PM
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Not cost effective to reload 9mm so I just get whatever I can
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Old 06-30-2010, 4:15 PM
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I've posted this on other forums and been flamed for it before. Disclaimer: This is not my opinion just information for thought.
Our local Police Academy range banned steel case ammo. they said there's nothing wrong with it under normal shooting conditions, however when they have cadets run through 500-700 rounds in a day without cleaning their weapons the laquer on the cases tends to build up and cause near constant FTF/FTE's. Just a heads up. Apparently this isn't an issue with aluminum or brass cases
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Old 06-30-2010, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by hnoppenberger View Post
alu cases collect a magnet? is it because the primer?
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Originally Posted by Corbin Dallas View Post
Really? And all this time I was under the impression aluminum was a non-ferrous metal...
damn just did a test with a magnet... the soda cans did not stick...... wtf i always thought they were.
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Old 06-30-2010, 4:47 PM
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Originally Posted by elsolo View Post
Aluminum is fine.

Steel case may be soft enough, but they always have some coating on them that gums up chambers.

By the time you might have caused any additional wear to your gun from these types of ammo, you allready saved enough money to pay for the replacement parts.

I've shot 500 rounds of tula through a brand new 1911 and it didint get "gummed" up.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm (one of the better writeups)

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Last edited by JaMail; 06-30-2010 at 4:53 PM..
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Old 06-30-2010, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 1911Operator View Post
actually you wont:

these are for 45acp (no primer):

10x brass @5.5 grams each=
55 grams=
1.94 ounces=
0.121 pounds

10x aluminum @2.0 grams each=
20 grams=
.70 ounces=
0.044 pounds

yes aluminum is almost 3 times lighter but at 0.121 vs 0.044 pounds! c'mon who is really going to notice that?????? its not in any way a huge difference. your not going to notice that unless you load it yourself or see the ammo, and if you do maybe you should'nt be shooting a gun. since recoil may hurt your sensitive hands. aluminum is cheap but in my experience, it is not as reliable as brass is. if I could id have all my casings in nickel.
Well put. I agree with this.
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Old 06-30-2010, 5:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 45R View Post
You can't post "According to a credible study" w/o actually giving us a link to this study w/o someone call BS. Was this out of Full auto, was it rifle or pistol ammo? Was the rapid firing constant or in intervals? How did the cases melt? Did they extract from the chamber after they were deformed? Did the gun KABOOM?

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Originally Posted by Corbin Dallas View Post
Really? Care to cite a reference on this?

I guess I should go to Vegas huh? I've loaded and shot over 2000 of these. Either I'm really LUCKY or you're spreading FUD.
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Originally Posted by Flouncer View Post
CalNRA do you know the MELTING temperature of aluminum is ? The powder will go off long before that temperature is reached. I can waste 20 minutes and find links if prodded. It's 1220 F and brass is 1700 F. A handgun containing ammo is going to reach 1200 F ?? The firing chamber where the round is laying gets exposed to 1200 F for how long before it heats up and explodes ? What exactly is the mechanism of the failure ??? Does it go off in the magazine ? Who is holding onto anything this hot ??

If you are really wishing or planning to sue I would think about it a little more.

A composite weapon will suffer some deformation well below 1200 F I would think. Glock ? Ruger at 1200 F ?? ?? ???
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFLand View Post
Melting point of AL is 660.32 °C (1220.58 °F) [MP of brass is about 50% higher, exact value depends on composition].

How hot does a rapid-fire gun barrel GET? I couldn't find data on modern machine guns, but found this about a 1914 Hotchkiss:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchki...14_machine_gun

I have a hard time believing that a modern machine gun barrel gets to 1220.58 °F. And wouldn't the powder cook off before the AL casing melts?

As others have said, let's have a cite supporting the assertion. Otherwise it's FUD.


I figured the "40% of users experience explosions" figure might be enough of a tip of to a non-serious post.

But in case anyone else was preparing to find out if I work for a brass casing maker, I was joking. I shoot aluminum cased ammo all the time. The can be a little dirtier but mostly due to them being the budget line than anything else.


(and to you new guys, Welcome to Calguns )
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Last edited by CalNRA; 06-30-2010 at 5:12 PM..
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