[Paladin]

To ALL Calguns.net members,

I want to challenge you today. The challenge is for us to make a major impact on Californian's ability to obtain a CHL (concealed handgun license). We can do this by replacing Los Angeles County Sheriff Baca. If that happens, we could almost double the number of CHL holders in the state.

Why are CHLs important? (1) To protect yourself, your loved ones and any other innocent victims when you are away from your home in normal times, or especially after a major disaster (Remember post-Katrina New Orleans? The Rodney King riots?). (2) In case you ever are a witness to a violent crime and the perp gets out on bail. (3) In case you are ever the victim of domestic abuse or a stalker.

Why sheriffs? Because sheriffs are usually the ones who determine whether a resident within their county can obtain a CHL. Also, unlike heads of police departments, sheriffs are directly elected by the residents within their jurisdiction.

Why LA County? Acc to http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06037.html , there are roughly 10 million LA county residents and 28% are under 18. Let’s guess that 30% are under 21. That means there are about 7 million potential applicants. If only 2% apply, that's 140,000 applications. If only 1/4th are approved under the new sheriff, that means we’ll have 35,000 new CHL holders in California – almost doubling the total number. That gives a lot more people a vested interest in stopping restrictions upon our 2nd A rts. It will show that CHL holders in major urban centers are not a source of criminal activity, but rather, that murders, rapes, and aggravated assaults all go down when law-abiding citizens can carry ( http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=18 ). A side benefit is it will cause many residents in other urban counties to pressure their sheriffs and chiefs of police to follow LA’s example. Plus, it will be such a shockwave throughout California politics that Sacramento will be less arrogant in attacking our 2nd Amendment rights to keep and bear arms.

Who to support? According to the previous thread ( http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=29691 ), either Ken Masse ( www.kenmasse.com ) or Don Meredith ( http://meredithforsheriff.com/ ) would be better than Baca re CHLs. Most who have participated at CGN seem to think Masse is the better candidate. Unfortunately, we must factor in which one is more likely to beat Baca, not just which one is more CHL-friendly. Determining that will take some net searching, phone calling, and foot work by those in LA county (see Tasks below). They need to find out who is the stronger challenger to Baca and then let the rest of us know by next Wed morning.

How to support? We have 4,100 CGN members. If only 3,000 of us get 3 (or more) of our friends to join within one week, we'd have 13,100 members (remember to tell them joining CGN is FREE). If 10,000 of us then immediately send checks for $20 (or more), that will be an instant infusion of $200,000 to the pro-CHL candidate in the last 7 weeks of his campaign. I think $200,000 coming in out-of-the-blue might shake things up down there. If those 3 new CGN members in turn get 3 other people to join here, and more importantly, contribute to the campaign, that would be a $800,000 contribution! That sheriff will know who made his win possible and will know that if he does not lower the barriers to CHL issuance, 3 years from now we will organize again, this time to replace him.

I'm willing to risk $20 to try to dump Baca and I'm in the Bay Area. Mailing a check is a lot "cheaper" in time, money, and effort than printing up flyers and driving around to shooting ranges and gun stores to gather signatures. We, here at CGN forum, can have a major impact on that election if we choose. All it takes is the will to skip seeing two movies ($10 each), that you probably won’t remember 6 months later.

Timeline: EVERYBODY sends out this posting as part of an email invitation to at least 3 of their pro-2nd Amendment, pro-gun friends IMMEDIATELY. People in LA county contact each other and form organization this weekend (choose your leaders/officers and pro-2nd Amendment or pro-safety name for your org, but not one with a negative connotation, otherwise the candidate may decline your help lest he get bad PR). They carry out steps 1, 2, and 3 by next Tuesday evening. They carry out step 4 Wednesday early morning (before 7:00 am). Then EVERBODY -- hopefully including thousands of new CGN members -- goes to Calguns.net's "Gun rights, political, and legal" forum to see what candidate to support and IMMEDIATELY mails their $20 to that candidate and emails a ONE TIME ONLY reminder to the friends they invited to CGN to check for the chosen candidate’s name and address info. Next Wed and Thursday, step 5. So, the candidate should have a bunch of new volunteers starting in one week and get all the money within 2 weeks.

Feel free to post this on other gun/RKBA/political forums. People from out of state (friends, family, former or future CA residents, pro-2nd A people, etc.) can support this effort too.

The question is, how much do we want to win? Are we willing to spend a lousy $20 to win LA county? Are pro-CHL people in LA county willing to fight constantly for the next 8 weeks for change? If we sit on the sidelines and don’t play the game, how do we expect to win? If we don’t act now, we won’t have another chance to replace a major county’s anti-CHL sheriff with a pro-CHL one until 2010!

The only thing that is worse than having done nothing to turn this state around is to continue to do nothing. Let’s do this!



Tasks for those in LA county who want to head this up:

1. What does the local NRA Members Council/GOC people think of the different candidates? What do local deputies/police think of the different candidates?

2. How much money have the different candidates raised? How much did the last contested race cost each contestant? The best place to start would be the LA county clerk's office or registrar of voters.

3. Which challenger has the more professional and organized campaign? Which one has raised more money? Is there any polling data to indicate where the challengers stand (check with the LA Time local politics desk)? Is the other willing to quit and support his former opponent so as to not split the anti-Baca vote?

4. Leave a posting on CNG’s “Gun rights, political and legal” forum announcing the chosen challenger and his website so we know where to mail our checks.

5. LA county members work up their own email list among each other; determine the days and hours they can volunteer; contact the chosen candidate telling them how many volunteers you represent and ask them how you can help, what days & times (sons & daughters might be able to help as part of a class project); and then get at it. Determine who will promote this on other gun/RKBA/political forums and update us on your campaign and anyway those of us outside of LA can help.

We only have 8 weeks until the June elections for California’s sheriffs. Many people mail absentee ballots weeks earlier, further cutting down on our time. Before that, flyers, signs, radio spots must be made and distributed/sold & aired by the candidate’s campaign committee. Before that, staff must be hired, phones installed, etc. All this takes time and money, so you have to act immediately for this to work. There is no time to be passive, to wait for meetings, people to contact you, etc. The LA people must be active and aggressive in getting things done. Remember, this is our ONLY opportunity to impact the issuance of CHLs in Kali for the next four years until the next sheriffs elections in 2010.

I'm not in LA myself but I do want to mention that this is a great idea! I think CCWs are definitely the next issue for us to tackle. Considering we just got over 30,000 legal recievers into the state anything seems possible !

[linuxgunner]

I'm sending checks to both Masse and Meredith.

[mblat]

A bit too late isn't it? Any way I just sent money via paypla to both MAsse and Meridith compains...

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by mblat

A bit too late isn't it?

No.

Unless there is some hot issue or controversial candidate, most voters don't even think about local races until a week or two before the election (June 6th). A couple of dozen P/T volunteers and $200,000 to $800,000 arriving six weeks before an election could tip this our way, paving the way for demonstrating right in Kalifornia the benefits of licensed CCWs in a major urban area. Just as the NRA has moved the nation toward Shall Issue state-by-state, this will help move Kalifornia toward Shall Issue county-by-county.

The main thing now is for CGN members in LA county to step forward and start implementing this plan. They're the ones best able to determine: (a)which contenders have the best political organization and financing, and (b) which of the contenders is less likely to discriminate in CHL issuance (i.e., more likely to be closer to "Shall Issue").

We don't want to support the challenger who has the best financing and political machine if they are a Baca-clone. There are better uses of our ever limited time, money and manpower to advance our agenda.

Similarly, we don't want to support someone who is our ideal candidate if they have no chance to win due to an inept political organization -- we don't have the time to turn their organization around.

The political calculus involved requires information about both factors and then figuring out the optimal (not ideal) single challenger to support. Finding someone to support who is on our side (even if not ideal), who has a good political organization, and who has a good chance of winning is better than letting Baca win again.

[linuxgunner]

Originally Posted by mblat

A bit too late isn't it? Any way I just sent money via paypla to both MAsse and Meridith compains...

No it is NOT too late. This is when they need the most funds. They are actively fundraising until the final week of the campaign. Remember, their goal is not to win the election, but to get into a run-off. They have a shot at doing that. That means LA, and its 10mil residents, have a shot at getting CCW in the next year.

[mblat]

I don't know if anybody remembers or not, but I'bve sent CCW question to both Don and Ken.

Ken's answer was - if your life in danger you'll get it. Not too much pro CCW
Don's was - I am the same with Corona ( and that is almost shall issue )

Thay both are better than Baca, but it seems that from our point of view Don is better.

Unfortunatly, it seems that he is total unknown, while Masse has some name recognition and probably higher chance of beating Baca. By the way as late as 4 weeks ago Baca still hasn't declared that he will run for reelection. Did it change?

[RRangel]

Excellent idea! Probably easier said than done though. It's worth the effort anyway.

[dwtt]

Originally Posted by mblat

I don't know if anybody remembers or not, but I'bve sent CCW question to both Don and Ken.

Ken's answer was - if your life in danger you'll get it. Not too much pro CCW
Don's was - I am the same with Corona ( and that is almost shall issue )

Thay both are better than Baca, but it seems that from our point of view Don is better.
Unfortunatly, it seems that he is total unknown, while Masse has some name recognition and probably higher chance of beating Baca.

I would support Masse because a total unknown will have little chance. Do either of these candidates have people reaching out to the local new media? Anyway, I'm in northern CA so I can only help by donating money to Masse.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by dwtt

Anyway, I'm in northern CA so I can only help by donating money to Masse.

You can do a lot more than just that. Emailing this plan to all your sympathetic family, friends, and shooting buddies/club who live or lived in Kali will multiply your efforts. Be sure to ask them to pass this on to their family, friends, shooting buddies/club.

Esp important are the people who live in LA county, for they can vote as well as volunteer as well as contribute.

I've probably spent close to 10 hours over the past three days thinking, writing, rewriting, and posting this plan, and then monitoring the response -- yet I'm in northern Kali! I'm sure there are others outside LA Co. that could help via phone or the internet w/forming a website/forum/etc for whatever local org comes out of this (since there could be a runoff election); others who have more political insights or ideas; others who could help the selected contended w/PR or advertising ideas or production (Remember the TV/advertising "power couple" (Bloodworth?) who helped Clinton?); and still others who might have some "deep pockets" contributor friends who could chip in; and others who could advise that local org on whether to legally incorporate or just be a informal association of like-minded volunteers.

dwtt, I'm not saying you can do any or all of the above. I'm just using your post to show others, who probably initially said the same thing to themselves, that they should think again, and think about their friends and see if there really is nothing else they can contribute. If $20 and emailing their friends is all they can do, great! As I pointed out, with enough $20 contributions this can work. But if you can figure out a way of contributing more, that just makes it more likely we will win.

Building a network of supporters is what matters and the internet is ideal for that. Look right here. I'm up in No. Kali, have never met any of you in my life and yet because of the internet and esp Calguns.net (Thank you Ramon!), we are politically networking to, hopefully, have a MAJOR impact to promote CCWs in Kali!

Remember, we don't have to get a majority of adults to support our contender -- we only have to get a majority of registered voters who actually vote (absentee or at the polls). We can do this if we really want to. For those in LA county and those outside of it who can contribute in other ways, as I mentioned above, it will require skipping many of your favorite TV shows and some fun events for the next two months, but the possible benefits -- the right to carry to protect you and your loved ones, to greatly expand CHL-issuing areas in Kali -- far outweighs any loss.

What we critically need now is for LA county CGN members to step forward and say, "I'm here and I'll help in whatever capacity I can." I can only do so much.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by mblat

I don't know if anybody remembers or not, but I'bve sent CCW question to both Don and Ken.

Ken's answer was - if your life in danger you'll get it. Not too much pro CCW
Don's was - I am the same with Corona ( and that is almost shall issue )

Thay both are better than Baca, but it seems that from our point of view Don is better.

Unfortunatly, it seems that he is total unknown, while Masse has some name recognition and probably higher chance of beating Baca.

Well, this is exactly the type of information we need "local" (i.e., LA county) people to gather. But we need them to step forward IMMEDIATEY! ! ! So far, no one has. (This is particularly disappointing when I see the number of people willing to spend time, money, and effort getting UT, FL or NV permits.) All they have to do is start a new thread titled something like, "Join the fight for CCW Permits in LA county" with a post something like, "I'm in LA county and want to fight for CCW Permits in Los Angeles county. If you want to join me, post here (or send me a PM/email) immediately."

Originally Posted by mblat

By the way as late as 4 weeks ago Baca still hasn't declared that he will run for reelection. Did it change?

I just went to the LA Registrar of Voters ( http://www.lavote.net/ ) and found a link to Candidate Filing Status ( http://rrcc.co.la.ca.us/elect/candli...2.HTM#01603000 ). If you select Sheriff (or scroll 9/10ths the way down), you'll see it list Baca and 5 contenders. It looks like Baca and 4 of the contenders filed all the necessary paper work (call the Registrar to see if any have dropped out). LA Co. people will have to get info on ALL FOUR of the contenders ASAP and decide before Wed, per my Timeline in my initial posting.

[jnojr]

Originally Posted by mblat

I don't know if anybody remembers or not, but I'bve sent CCW question to both Don and Ken.

Ken's answer was - if your life in danger you'll get it. Not too much pro CCW
Don's was - I am the same with Corona ( and that is almost shall issue )

Thay both are better than Baca, but it seems that from our point of view Don is better.

How about approaching Ken Masse and discussing the issue with him? Point out that thousands, even tens of thousands, of gun owners would happily vote for him if he would agree to "common sense" (ie. shall-issue) CCW issuance.

This is the type of situation where I wish there was an actual way to contact CRPA and Cal-NRA. A way to make them aware of this and get them actively working. A call and offer of support from the NRA could go a long way to getting a candidate to shape up his CCW policy. Unfortunately, by the time you find a way to contact them, and they mull it over, and argue and carp about it, and finally reach a decision... that election is long over with and it's time to worry about the next one

Maybe IM or email Mike Haas and ask him if there's any way to light a fire under the NRA? Get an Alert sent out to LA County members.

[jnojr]

Another thought... what were the returns for the election(s) Baca won? How many votes did he get vs. how many votes did his opponent(s) get? I looked this info up a couple of years ago for Bill Kolendar in San Diego. I thought I could put together a "Go shall-issue, or feel the wrath of the voters in the next election" case. As it turned out, he'd won by such huge landslides that he wasn't going to feel any need to listen. But, if the LA races were much closer, it would be possible to put a case together, that this issue will affect X number of voters and could be a linchpin.

[linuxgunner]

Originally Posted by jnojr

Another thought... what were the returns for the election(s) Baca won? How many votes did he get vs. how many votes did his opponent(s) get? I looked this info up a couple of years ago for Bill Kolendar in San Diego. I thought I could put together a "Go shall-issue, or feel the wrath of the voters in the next election" case. As it turned out, he'd won by such huge landslides that he wasn't going to feel any need to listen. But, if the LA races were much closer, it would be possible to put a case together, that this issue will affect X number of voters and could be a linchpin.

AFAIK, Sheriff Baca won by a landslide last time. He gets huge donations from all the VIPs in LA because they need him for CCW permits, event permits, etc. They can't afford not to be in "Friends of Sheriff Baca" (yes that's what it's called).

The strategy in this campaign is to get the election into a run-off. The more contenders there are the more likely that is to happen.

[Paladin]

I think the response has not been what I hoped for because of the original title for this thread ("The Los Angeles Challenge") wasn't "sexy" enough, esp to those outside LA, and because I posted it late Friday.

I'll work up a new title and a new timeline so that those who only visit here during the week won't think it is too late when they first read this tomorrow. Hopefully, the new plan will allow them all this week to get the background info on the four challengers and then have them post the chosen candidate either Friday or Sunday.

Remember, someone once said that in a democracy you get the government you deserve. That is both a promise and a threat. I hope the pro-CCW permit people in LA deserve better than Baca. Time will tell.

[Soundman]

I am in LA County and I'd be happy to help

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Paladin

I'll work up a new title and a new timeline so that those who only visit here during the week won't think it is too late when they first read this tomorrow. Hopefully, the new plan will allow them all this week to get the background info on the four challengers and then have them post the chosen candidate either Friday or Sunday.

Was busy today. Will try to do this before noon tomorrow.

[StuckInCA]

Originally Posted by linuxgunner

AFAIK, Sheriff Baca won by a landslide last time. He gets huge donations from all the VIPs in LA because they need him for CCW permits, event permits, etc. They can't afford not to be in "Friends of Sheriff Baca" (yes that's what it's called).

The strategy in this campaign is to get the election into a run-off. The more contenders there are the more likely that is to happen.

Didn't BAca win due to the fact the Sheriff he was running against DIED?


-Andy

[chungsteroonie]

Waiting for a plan so I can click the paypal button. . .

-'Chung

[Diabolus]

I live in Santa Monica and am willing to help.

[DELTA]

Hi Guys,

Thought I might interject.

I know Ken Masse personally, and he is the best contender for the position. He has raised enough funds to be taken seriously, and he is our best friend against Bacca.
Ken also has a lot of support from the rank & file deputies.

Meredith is a good guy, but his war chest is probably less than $10,000. He is an LT. in the Glendale P.D. and has run a few times, but he does not make an effort to raise funds or to campain effectively. I think he just rujs for the hell of it. I do not mean to put him down, not at all, just that his chances are almost nill.

Any questions regarding Masse, you can PM me.

[Diabolus]

I think you should give us some more details about Ken Masse and what we can do to help. Instead of PM's, get the information out in the forum so people can help out.

I am willing to help donate, I just need a direction to go.

[DELTA]

Sorry Diabolus, I'll put the info here:

website is www.kenmasse.com

Donations: Checks made out to "Masse For Sheriff"
Mail to:
2694 E. Garvey Avenue Suite#396
West Covina, CA. 91791

Also, if you guys have a group that meets or we can set up a group of Calgun guys in L.A. County to meet, I can arrange for Ken to be there as the speaker and to answer any questions that you might have.

[dwtt]

Originally Posted by DELTA

I know Ken Masse personally, and he is the best contender for the position. He has raised enough funds to be taken seriously, and he is our best friend against Bacca.
Ken also has a lot of support from the rank & file deputies.

I was leaning toward Ken Masse but with your post, I think we should all throw our support behind him. Let's not dilly around deciding who to support. I'm going to print out that contribution form on his web page and send in some money. I urge all of you to do the same. You don't have to give much, but just do it.

[Mute]

If we can all get together, I'm willing to do what I can to get supporters behind Ken Masse. I've checked all three candidate's position on CCW and his is the one I'm most comfortable with. I haven't seen any weasle words with his stance on this issue.

[chungsteroonie]

I was wondering if someone could post a standardized form in PDF format that states:

1. I'm donating X amount
2. I'm donating on the basis of CCW reform
3. I'm donating as part of a Calguns community effort.

We can simply fill in our name and amount, and send in this form with our campaign support checks.

That way, makes it easy for him to track what's coming from us this late in the game.

also, might make things easier if we could make a paypal account available so we can donate electronically and send in the lump sum on behalf of Calguns. Then, start a thread that updates us on how much we've contributed to boost morale/get people excited about making a difference.

-'Chung

[DELTA]

Originally Posted by chungsteroonie

I was wondering if someone could post a standardized form in PDF format that states:


also, might make things easier if we could make a paypal account available so we can donate electronically and send in the lump sum on behalf of Calguns. Then, start a thread that updates us on how much we've contributed to boost morale/get people excited about making a difference.

-'Chung

One thing you have to know is the campain finance laws are tricky. Donating from a group has it's headaches, specially since Calguns is not an IRS registered entity. I think all donations by real persons (not organizations) over $99 have to include the donors name & address plus his occupation & employer per election laws.

I will get election law details from Ken and post it here tomorrow.

[linuxgunner]

I'm voting for Ken. I think we have a real shot at, maybe not shall-issue, but at least a big improvement over the current situation.

Even if Ken doesn't get a majority, all we need to do is get into a run-off. I think there is a real chance of defeating Baca.

I hope he (or his friends) reads this forum and realize that his CCW policies are a flirtation with disaster.

[DELTA]

linuxgunner,

You are right. All we have to do is keep Baca from attaining 50% + 1 votes on June 6th so we can go to the run-off in November.

If we succeed in keeping Baca from getting a win in June, the shockwave alone would generate enough advertisement in the media for Ken. Also, all those politicians who hate Baca, and believe me there are a lot of them, will smell blood and desert him.

[Paladin]

I've been working on the new post for over an hour and hope to have it posted before midnight . . .

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Mute

If we can all get together, I'm willing to do what I can to get supporters behind Ken Masse. I've checked all three candidate's position on CCW and his is the one I'm most comfortable with. I haven't seen any weasle words with his stance on this issue.

Acc to this from mblat on 4/8/06 on this thread (referring to his post at: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...t=29691&page=3 ), Ken's words are not too comforting:

Originally Posted by mblat

I don't know if anybody remembers or not, but I'bve sent CCW question to both Don and Ken.

Ken's answer was - if your life in danger you'll get it. Not too much pro CCW
Don's was - I am the same with Corona ( and that is almost shall issue )

Thay both are better than Baca, but it seems that from our point of view Don is better.

I looked at Don's website and couldn't find anything directly on point re CCWs, at least nothing like Bill Hunt's site (bullet point 2 at: http://www.billhuntforsheriff.com/sh....asp?title=905 ) or Hunt's posting here ( http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...t=31645&page=3 ). Please direct me to the page on his website stating his position on issuing CCW permits.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by DELTA

Also, if you guys have a group that meets or we can set up a group of Calgun guys in L.A. County to meet, I can arrange for Ken to be there as the speaker and to answer any questions that you might have.

This is an EXCELLENT offer and I advise those in LAC who want to be involved to do this ASAP. Political reality being what it is in LAC, I can understand a candidate not bringing up issues which he thinks the MSM might tar & feather him over. HOWEVER, I also know that candidates will promise as much to as many to get the numbers they need to win. I don't know Ken and an not saying this about him. I'm just speaking generally. Courtship and marriage are two different things and candidates court voters. Once they're in office, you're in a four-year marriage.

[Paladin]

Sorry about not getting back sooner -- family duties called.

fyi It's almost 1:30am so I haven't edited this the way I normally do, so it won't flow smoothly and a lot of it is out of order. You guys are starting to chew at the bit, so I thought it better to post it raw than to wait. I'll try to edit it tomorrow.

I've brainstormed -- you guys get to pick & choose what to do, choosing high value targets first, esp w/time your constraints. Try to get as many allies as possible.

Ideally we'll all send money to the same candidate, the one that has the best balance between CCW positon AND is most likely to beat Baca. None of us will know that until all the different candidates have been contacted. Thus you guys in LAC are the bottleneck for us supporting CCW reform there. You've got your work cut out for you. Also re-read my original post. Timeline is just do it ASAP.

What needs to be done next:

1. You guys in So Cal (specifically LA county) need to email/PM each other your contact info. Then you need to decide who can do what from the below and anything else you think necessary.

2. Someone immediately contacts the Registrar of Voters (RV) for LA Co. how you can find out how much money the different candidates have raised. Find out the exact criteria forcing a runoff. Find out how the different candidates did in the last sheriff's race (2002) and how much each raised during their whole campaign.

3 (a). Ck out all the contenders' websites looking for what issues they are taking positions on as well as their positions themselves. Take notes on other issues to be used during phone conversations w/them or their reps. Choose about 6 - 10 issues to ask the candidates about, and think of questions that can't be answered just by looking at their websites. Just say you're gathering information about the Sheriff's candidates for a paper. Don't tip your hand that you're pro-CCW at this point, you want their candid responses. Phoning is probably the most time effective at this point vs 3 (b).

If you can find their CCW position on the web, great. Bookmark that page for easy access to be used later for getting the link to use in a posting here along w/the pertinent quote.

3 (b). Decide who has the best skills for contacting the four contenders and tries to corner them as best as possible, while still being polite, as far as their CCW permit stance. Be professional & polite, not argumentative. Someone who is in sales or regularly negotiates for a living would be ideal. No cammo, tactical pants, etc. Dress professionally. We want to show that we are responsible, law-abiding citizens who care about protecting ourselves and our families when we are away from home, not some hotheads who want to make pretend they're Jack Bauer.

4. Someone has to ck w/the LA Times/other websites and then local political reporters to see if there have been any polls done on the different candidates (incl Baca) as far as popularity. Also try to find out if they've interviewed the candidates, what they think of the diff candidates political organizations (well run/a joke/still trying to get traction/etc). Try to find out how each is doing as far as raising money (if they don't know, ask them who might know). Showing that you're informed & you've done web research first before calling will get you a lot farther w/the reporter. Try to answer as many of these off the web as you can.

5. Talk w/the local NRA MC's ( http://nramemberscouncils.com/mc/directory/ ) about the different contenders. If the head of the MC doesn't know, he might refer you to a member who will. Also, I don't know how many MCs are in LA Co. Ck them all. Ask if their members might be interested in helping out in the fight.

Also contact GOC 916-967-4970 to see if they have any info on the contenders and if they have any GOC people to contact in LA Co. who might have info or want to help in the fight.

Re NRA in Sacto: Mike Haas regularly visits and posts here. You should PM him about this thread in case he's not seen it, but don't expect any overt support from the NRA for anything they don't and can't control. (Can't say I blame them -- the MSM paints them/us out to be nutcases whenever they can. So the NRA has to be EXTREMELY careful about who/what it supports/associates with lest they be rendered less effective in their fights.)

AFTER you've picked the best challenger, post that information here and maybe on a new thread. Tell everyone who mails in a contribution to write "Calguns.net CCW" in large red letters on the envelope (and the comment line of the check) to show the candidate who is paying their bills and make their office staff pass on to the boss that CCW matters to us.

Try to posting his statement (and link if applicable) at The High Road, WarriorTalk, Tactical Forums, The Firing Line, GlockTalk, packing.org's CA forum ( http://www.packing.org/community/stateview/?statepk=5 ) and other pro-2nd A forums. Pass the info on to the local and state Libertarian Party orgs, and the same with the Constitution/American Independent Party. Contact the local lawyers chapter(s) of the Federalist Society (ck the web). Tell them who you support and why and ask if they could pass your info onto their members. The Society if very pro-US Constitution and they might have some big donors. You should give them your contact info since their members might want to coordinate volunteering w/you to show that they are volunteering because of CCW.

Someone has to get a map of LA Co, and I'd say about a 20 min drive beyond in all directions, and plot out every major gun shop ( www.gunshopfinder.com ), indoor (/outdoor?) range, contact every IDPA, USPSA/IPSC, PPC-type clubs (ck the web, call all clubs listed and ask them if their league has other clubs not on your list from the web), hunting clubs, you can think of. I bet there are even knife clubs in LA that might be interested. Also, martial arts schools, clubs, leagues. Pink Pistols. Second Amendment Sisters. www.mothersarms.org wwww.wagc.org Armed Females of America, John Birch Society members are usually very pro-2nd A. Serious weightlifting clubs are another possibility. Even aftermarket autoparts stores (Remington got into supporting NASCAR when they noticed a huge overlap in demographics.) Police associations (Law Enforcement Alliance of America is pro-2nd A), even the rank and file might not know who is best (and a lot of rank & file supports CCW even if their chiefs are antis because of politics). Walmarts that sell ammo. Then you guys have got to divide them up among yourselves and plan on hitting them w/flyers. Make sure your people don't just ask permission to put up flyers, but to talk w/the employees, who'll then bring up your position in conversations w/customers and friends. See if the gun shop owners would contribute to the selected candidate -- it will help their handgun sales. Again, you may get more volunteers as well as voters and contributors at these places. If your kids are home from college for Easter/Spring Break, get them involved.

Then have one of you contact that candidate's office and offer yourselves as volunteers. Tell them you've got XX many people who want to help specifically because you think they're the best challenger who can beat Baca and promote CCWs.

If the candidate is pro-CCW, but for some reason doesn't want to to hit the places I listed, you might want to do it on your own and skip officially volunteering for them. Why? Because you & I know pro-CCW people in Kali will definitely turn out, want to chip in money, and want to tell everyone they can influence to do that too.

flyer or business-type card w/NRA's map ( http://www.nraila.org/images/rtcmaplg.jpg -- maybe simplified by combining IO, CT, AL, VT, and AK into one color as "Shall Issue" in practice or better) and statistics ( http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=18 )

Tactical issue: just distribute flyers/cards supportive of candidate or make an issue of CCW when supporting him? If he won't take a public stand it will be hard to later claim he's betrayed us.

[Paladin]

Here are some of the reasons I use to tell friends in "Shall Issue" jurisdictions that they should apply for a CHL immediately, even if they don't plan to carry everyday. Use these when talking to gun shops and others that may be pro-gun but think CCW permits are paranoid:

1. In case you are ever a witness to a violent crime and the perp gets out on bail -- you may need a CCW immediately to protect yourself. Better to have a CHL and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

2. In case of disasters (post-Katrina, tornadoes, earthquakes, fires, riots), you may have to flee your home w/all your valuables. CHL will protect you while you flee in state and while you stay at a new, unfamiliar location.

3. In case some nut case decides to stalk you or if you are a victim of domestic abuse, your abuser decides to come after you. Again, you might suddenly need to carry.

4. For those times you have to go to a bad part of town, or get lost in an unfamiliar city or stay out later than usual. You'll have the option to carry whereas otherwise you won't.

Question to keep in the back of your mind is if no one who is really much better than Baca has a chance, is it better just to send money to, presumptively Hunt, in his fight for OC sheriff? Sure, it won't help LAC, but if we can't change the actual outcome re CCW issuance in LAC, it might be better to make sure the 3 mil of OC get Shall Issue.

Remember, in Sacto, you've got to get pro-CCW people elected, draft legislation, move it thru subcommittees, committees, etc. Get a coalition to vote for it in one chamber and then do the same thing in the next and then get the governor to sign it and then get ready for court challenges. With counties, all you have to do is get a pro-CCW sheriff and all those residents are good to go (apply). If we could win in LA (10 million) and OC (3 million) we will have liberated over 1/3 of all Californians (36 million total pop). And remember, a few of those other 23 million already live in Shall Issue counties so that just makes our impact even bigger. In other words, this is all worth it!

[Paladin]

I've suggested hitting a LOT of pro-gun/CCW/2nd A locations/organizations. Prioritize them. Choose the ones that will give you the biggest return for the effort of your current troops (i.e., NOT a target rich one that doesn't meet until late this month, nor a rich target that is a long drive away from any of your current members). At the rich targets that are near to your current members you might pick up new members/volunteers who live closer to other rich targets further out, or allow you to visit less rich targets nearby.

I'd divide whatever list of targets (websites of pro- orgs, gun shops/clubs/ranges, etc.) into three groups by priority: (1) target rich, nearby, (2) target poor, nearby and target rich, far away, and (3) target poor and far away. Go after (1) as soon as you know the candidate, have made postings on the web, and, if it is a physical location, after you've made flyers/cards, and refined a 30 sec intro sales pitch. Develop a 2-3 min sales pitch for pro-gun orgs that you'll be calling on the phone (Second A Sis', GOC, etc) and a longer one if you are accepted as a speaker at local club meetings (a lot of good facts are at that NRA page I listed to support CCW). Making the cards/flyers and sales pitch is the kind of pre-contact work that should be done as a group, over the 'net/conference calls, esp by those w/sales experience. Main goals: don't put out anything that could be misconstrued; don't try for perfection, you don't have time; get something solid, that can be easily remembered by both the troops and the targets (potential voters, volunteers, contributors); "freeze the design" and focus all efforts on continual planning, organizing and executing.

And last, don't doubt, don't second guess yourselves which can undermine your optimism, determination, confidence and execution. Remember: the next 8 weeks you might actually win LAC for CCW permits!

[Paladin]

Also, you very well may be meeting/contacting people who will say, "Sorry, but I'm in OC." Take 15 sec to tell them about Bill Hunt, write his website on a the back of the cards you've made (w/heavy paper stock and laser printer) (that way if they have friends in LAC, they'll have your guy's info on the card to remind them whom to recommend) and encourage them to vote for him.

I'll post on that OC sheriff's thread, recommending they ck out this thread and try to start their own group and coordinate hitting some target w/you (eg, one person from one group or the other hits one target that is close to the border between both of you w/flyers/cards from both of you).

[Paladin]

Just looking over the postings, I'd say linuxgunner, mblat, soundman, Diabolus, and, possibly, chungsteroonie are willing to fight for CCW in LAC. I don't know where Admin/Ramon lives, but he's worth a shot too. PM/email each other, decide who's got what time and talents. Post who the contact person is so others that read this thread know who to PM/email to say they want to join the fight. Also, monitor the new thread, "The Orange County CCW Permit Challenge" to see when that gets traction and then contact and coordinate w/them.

Feel free to PM me. I'll continue to give what help I can when I can.

Remember, just 8 weeks and we, right here at CGN, could win 1/3 of Kali away from the discriminatory-CCW forces! Jim March would be proud.

Edit: speaking of Jim March, someone should contact him because I'd bet he knows people down in LAC and OC to help out. Plus, given that this fight is for 13 million people in urban areas, he might want to help out himself. Jim posts over at The High Road sometimes.

[dwtt]

Originally Posted by chungsteroonie

I was wondering if someone could post a standardized form in PDF format that states:

1. I'm donating X amount
2. I'm donating on the basis of CCW reform
3. I'm donating as part of a Calguns community effort.

We can simply fill in our name and amount, and send in this form with our campaign support checks.

That way, makes it easy for him to track what's coming from us this late in the game.

also, might make things easier if we could make a paypal account available so we can donate electronically and send in the lump sum on behalf of Calguns.

-'Chung

You need to fill out a form if you contribute money to Ken Masse's campaign, it's the law. You can also do it by paypal.
Go to http://www.kenmasse.com/voter/volunteer.cfm
it's his volunteer page. Fill in your contact info if you want to help out by volunteering. All campaigns need bodies to help out with things like distribute flyers, post signs, or just update lists of voters.
On the left side of the web page is a link to "contribute". This will get you to a form that you will have to fill out for contributions. You can also use Paypal.

[jnojr]

A suggestion on contacting candidates and asking for their position... keep your questions neutral. Don't identify yourself as "pro-2A", and don't ask "Do you believe that law abiding citizens should not have to cringe fearfully before armed predators?" Ask, "What is your stance on CCW issuance... do you lean more towards a more liberal, "shall issue" policy; or do you believe that restricting permits to a very few is a safer policy?" If he doesn't know what answer you want to hear, you're more likely to hear the truth. Keep neutral until you have a good understanding of where he's coming from and why... then worry about arguing points. Heck, it would probably be better to try to change his viewpoint in a later conversation, after you've had a chance to research the information you gained by staying neutral

[DELTA]

OK guys, as promised I got the election law info:

Rules regarding donations are as follows:

Less than $25.00 we do not need the name of donor. (can be cash)
From $25.00 to $99.00 we need the name of the donor. (can be cash)
From $100.00 to $1000.00 we need the name, occupation and employer information of the donor. (must be check or money order.)

Maximum donation is $1000.00 per person. If a married couple with both names on the check, can be $2000.00, but both need to sign the check.

Businesses can donate $1,000.00 maximum.

If a business is wholly owned by one person, there can only be a single $1000.00 donation, either from the individual or from the business, but not both.

If there are multiple partners and no one owns a majority of the business, the business can donate $1000.00 and each of the partners and their spouses can donate $1000.00.

Checks should be made out to Masse for Sheriff and mailed to:

Masse for Sheriff
2694 E. Garvey Avenue South #396
West Covina, CA 91791

Thanks,

Ken Masse
The Next Sheriff
www.kenmasse.com