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  #1  
Old 06-20-2010, 3:24 PM
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Default Tokarev SVT-40

I recently came across a deal for an SVT-40 semiautomatic rifle with two 10 round detachable magazines. Being assigned to the state of California as active duty military I know I qualify via the grandfather clause for California. Does anyone know if this rifle is California legal?

Last edited by LoneRider; 06-20-2010 at 3:27 PM..
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  #2  
Old 06-20-2010, 3:25 PM
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yes it's legal in Kalifornia.
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  #3  
Old 06-20-2010, 3:29 PM
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Thanks Mauser98K.

I ask because I've found a decent deal on an SVT Tokarev and want to send it to an FFL in California and arrange to pick it up next time I have time off.

Last edited by LoneRider; 06-20-2010 at 3:45 PM..
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  #4  
Old 06-20-2010, 3:47 PM
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perfectly legal, I've got one.
BTW I don't shoot surplus in mine, its a pig to clean and I end up worrying about the corrosive primer salts
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Old 06-20-2010, 3:50 PM
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I've heard enough horror stories about surplus ammo. What are some good ammo manufacturers I can find for 7.62x54mm? Is Wolf ammo alright?
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Old 06-20-2010, 4:03 PM
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Wolf ammo is just fine brotha. It goes bang!
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Old 06-20-2010, 4:09 PM
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Jpach - I figured. I just wanted to make sure the powder is not too corrosive for the insides of my weapon to prevent corrosion and pitting on the barrel.
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Old 06-20-2010, 4:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneRider View Post
Jpach - I figured. I just wanted to make sure the powder is not too corrosive for the insides of my weapon to prevent corrosion and pitting on the barrel.
It's not the powder you have to worry about, it's the primers. Wolf uses non-corrosive primers, as does all commercial ammo now. Military surplus 7.62x54 has corrosive primers, so you need to clean the bore and gas system with a water based cleaner immediately after shooting milsurp ammo in your SVT-40.
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Old 06-20-2010, 4:24 PM
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get it...legal, and awesome!!!



who wouldn't love something so beautiful?!?!?!
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Old 06-20-2010, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mssr. Eleganté View Post
It's not the powder you have to worry about, it's the primers. Wolf uses non-corrosive primers, as does all commercial ammo now. Military surplus 7.62x54 has corrosive primers, so you need to clean the bore and gas system with a water based cleaner immediately after shooting milsurp ammo in your SVT-40.
Thanks for the tips regarding the primers. Wolf sounds like it's a good brand. I see its also widely available and that 7.62x54mm is relatively available. Not to mention the person I'm buying the SVT-40 from also has 1000 rounds to go with it.

Quote:
get it...legal, and awesome!!!
IrishPirate - Definitely moving towards buying the thing. Now all I have to do is coordinate with an FFL to ship the rifle to and then purchase it from there.

Last edited by LoneRider; 06-20-2010 at 4:29 PM..
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  #11  
Old 06-20-2010, 4:29 PM
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What kind of price are you getting on this?
I've seen them from 800-1200.
The Naval stocked ones seem to be more collectable
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  #12  
Old 06-20-2010, 4:35 PM
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Barnaul Brown Bear is good cheap non corrosive ammo too
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Old 06-20-2010, 4:56 PM
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harmoniums - About $1,000 for the rifle, 2x 10 round magazines, and 1,000 rounds of ammunition.

Not really going for collectible here. Mainly owning to shoot and one modification I'm putting onto it is a Tasco or Bushnell telescopic sight.
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Old 06-20-2010, 5:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneRider View Post
harmoniums - About $1,000 for the rifle, 2x 10 round magazines, and 1,000 rounds of ammunition.

Not really going for collectible here. Mainly owning to shoot and one modification I'm putting onto it is a Tasco or Bushnell telescopic sight.
thats at pretty much market price.
Don't drill and tap the receiver for a scope mount, it may not matter to you now but I guarantee that you'll regret it further down the road.
Most SVTs have two slots cut into the receiver to take a weird cantilevered scope mount the russians came up with, you can find reproductions of these on ebay gunbroker etc.
Get that one instead of permanently modifying your rifle.
As its over 50 years old and C&R you can just buy it on a handshake as long as both of you are residing in the same state. Where are you stationed and where is the rifle?

Also look into getting an 03FFL, its a collectors license, cost 30 bucks for 3 years and you'll be able to have guns like this shipped direct to your door.
Current turn around times on these licenses is about one month.

you can get M1 Garands/Carbines, FN49s, Hakims, SKSs and just about any bolt action military rifle.
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Last edited by harmoniums; 06-20-2010 at 5:25 PM..
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  #15  
Old 06-20-2010, 6:00 PM
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The rifle is in Colorado and I am presently stationed at Fort Irwin in the Mojave Desert area of California - technically part of the Inland Empire area.

And I probably am gonna go for the original scope mount - though I'm not certain if they can take modern rifle scopes. Does anyone know if those cantilevered Russian scope mounts can take modern rifle scopes?

Putting a scope on top of the rifle isn't gonna be till later though. I'm a firm believer in developing a good manual of arms and shooting habits with a rifle with open sights first before mounting any type of optical sight on there.
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  #16  
Old 06-20-2010, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmoniums View Post
Most SVTs have two slots cut into the receiver to take a weird cantilevered scope mount the russians came up with, you can find reproductions of these on ebay gunbroker etc.
Get that one instead of permanently modifying your rifle.
Those will not stay put unless you grind a slot in the top of the receiver for a crosspin to seat in. That's even worse.

Some people have bought spare dust covers and mounted scopes to the spare, keeping original safe.

Still, the SVT was a failure as a sniper rifle. The Soviets went back to the 91/30 for that role.
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Old 06-20-2010, 9:30 PM
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How much do those spare dust covers go for Fate?

And I do recall that the SVT was a failure as a sniper rifle - however it did inspire the Germans to create the G.43 and its sniper variant.

And anyway adding a scope is gonna happen later rather than sooner to this rifle.
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  #18  
Old 06-21-2010, 1:15 AM
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I dont suggest tacticooling the SVT Lone... if your going to go for tacticool. go get a mosin nagant... same round, cheap, did i mention cheap? but semi-auto is still epic.
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  #19  
Old 06-21-2010, 1:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneRider View Post
And I do recall that the SVT was a failure as a sniper rifle - however it did inspire the Germans to create the G.43 and its sniper variant.
Which was a mechanical nightmare and also failed in that capacity.
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Old 06-21-2010, 3:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mauser98k View Post
Barnaul Brown Bear is good cheap non corrosive ammo too
Thats almost the only Mosin ammo I use nowadays. It's cheap and accurate to.
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  #21  
Old 06-21-2010, 3:30 AM
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also you could forget the SVT 40 and buy A PSL. Its cheaper and shoots the same round and already is meant to be used with a scope. My guess is it might be more accurate too. Plus people wont chew you out for bubbafying a SVT40.
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Old 06-21-2010, 7:28 AM
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Quote:
also you could forget the SVT 40 and buy A PSL. Its cheaper and shoots the same round and already is meant to be used with a scope. My guess is it might be more accurate too. Plus people wont chew you out for bubbafying a SVT40.
Are PSLs even legal in California without the moronic modification laws? I'm not sure.

Quote:
I dont suggest tacticooling the SVT Lone... if your going to go for tacticool. go get a mosin nagant... same round, cheap, did i mention cheap? but semi-auto is still epic.
Not necessarily. A rapid follow-on shot isn't always a bad thing for a designated marksman rifle...militarily speaking. The problem with the G.43 and SVT sniper variants I deduce was mainly the fact that German/Soviet sniper doctrines rarely had much in the way of a designated marksman (not the same as a sniper mind you). The Germans were further ahead in that regard because they had marksmen which weren't trained snipers but men to be relied on to hit targets between 400-600 meters consistently. Men of that sort would have been better served with a semi-auto sniper rifle to carry out rapid sniping engagements at mid range and then tactically withdraw.

As far as tacticooling the SVT I'm going to stick with the scope mounts that the Russians had designed for the weapon and either place a modern scope into those mounts (depending if they can accept them - which I'm still looking for information on) or place a reproduction PU scope onto it.

My intent is not to mechanically alter the weapon with invasive procedures for scope mounting like drill and tap. I'll use the scope groves that come with the weapon to mount an optical sight on the weapon.
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Old 06-21-2010, 4:02 PM
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What if this is one of the SVT-40's that does not have the scope rails?
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Old 06-21-2010, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneRider View Post
I recently came across a deal for an SVT-40 semiautomatic rifle with two 10 round detachable magazines. Being assigned to the state of California as active duty military I know I qualify via the grandfather clause for California. Does anyone know if this rifle is California legal?
What grandfather clause are you speaking of?
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  #25  
Old 06-21-2010, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LoneRider View Post
Are PSLs even legal in California without the moronic modification laws? I'm not sure.
Legal with a fixed mag or filled in thumbhole stock. Actually about as fast to reload as a SVT without a fixed mag if you're using stripper clips.
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The problem with the G.43 and SVT sniper variants I deduce was...
Deduce? Hahaha. How about some FACTS. The SVT was retired because it had first round flyers. Consistently. Not a good thing for a sniper rifle.
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Originally Posted by LoneRider View Post
As far as tacticooling the SVT I'm going to stick with the scope mounts that the Russians had designed for the weapon and either place a modern scope into those mounts (depending if they can accept them - which I'm still looking for information on) or place a reproduction PU scope onto it.

My intent is not to mechanically alter the weapon with invasive procedures for scope mounting like drill and tap. I'll use the scope groves that come with the weapon to mount an optical sight on the weapon.
You will fail then. NONE of the aftermarket or even original style scope mounts can be attached ONLY by the side rails. They also require you to permanently alter the rear of the receiver to hold a cross pin. If you try and run it without the cross pin, the mount will slide off during recoil.

And as for fitting a modern scope in a repro mount...they generally don't fit.
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  #26  
Old 06-21-2010, 6:05 PM
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I personally do not like Wolf, it seems to be dirtier then other ammo I have shot. The only 7.62X54R and 8MM Mauser I shoot is surplus, but I clean the hell out of my guns after shooting. and Nice find on the SVT-40, I want one! HAHAHA!
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Old 06-21-2010, 6:11 PM
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The G43 was phased out due to costs and a failing industry as the war got closer to manufacturing centers.

The SVT was phased out because of new technology slowly(very slowly) introduced after the war
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Old 06-21-2010, 7:27 PM
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Lets try and separate some myth and fact here.
The SVT-40 was never a "sniper" rifle, and neither is/was the PSL. Both were squad support weapons.
Neither one was intended to be used in select fire mode for very long without damage to the rifle either.
The first shot flier is a myth for both rifles, either that, or I got two 1 in million rifles, and my luck is never that good. Both will put the 2nd and 10th shot in the same place if I do my part. Both do suffer from too light of a barrel, 10 rounds rapid fire and you can fry bacon on em!
An SVT-40 is a far more simpler design than a M-1 Garand or G43, not better maybe, but simpler. The difference was in troop education and training. The Germans used captured SVT's with far better effect than the troops they were captured from.
If this SVT has scope rails milled in the receiver, use a repro mount. 95% of them have to be fitted. This is a plus because they fit tight enough that you don't need the locking pin, thus the notch ground out on the rear of the receiver and permanently altering the rifle. Use a plastic, brass, or lead hammer to tap it into position. If you can't do it with your hand, and have to tap it in, it ain't going anywhere.
If it's not tight, you can drill and tap the mount rails (sides of the forks) for set screws. That way you won't alter the $1000 rifle, just the repro mount.
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Old 06-21-2010, 7:54 PM
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The first shot flier is a myth for both rifles, either that, or I got two 1 in million rifles, and my luck is never that good.
Then you disagree with the premiere authority on SVTs in America, Vic Thomas. He has extensively researched these rifles for many, many years. On his website, he states:
Quote:
The SVT-40 was a competent sniper rifle but was plagued by problems with first shot inaccuracy. It was found in testing that a 10 to 15 cm discrepancy was evident in patterns fired at 100 meters. The "flyer" consistently being the first shot. It was determined that the barrel shifted longitudinally along with the receiver. Further stock work did not alleviate the problem. It was also determined that the scope mount needed to be attached more securely to the rifle. These problems were too severe to continue production until solutions could be found.
http://mosinnagant.net/USSR/svt401.asp

I'd believe his research over your single exemplar
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Old 06-21-2010, 8:44 PM
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Fate, I go on what I know, not what I read on the internet. So yes, I do disagree with Mr. Thomas. I won't argue that he's not an expert in his field, because without a doubt he is.
Inaccuracy problems with SVT's with a good bore, are 9 out of 10 times refurbs, with poorly fitted muzzle extensions. The piece threaded on the end of the brake has to be perfectly aligned with the bore. If it's not, it's worse than a bad ding on a muzzle crown. It'll spray all over the target.
I've never seen where Vic addresses that problem. That's because he's a firearms historian/researcher. My facts come from shooting and working on them.
If you doubt what I say, you're more than welcome to be my guest at the range and see for yourself, I'll bring the ammo too! You have to clean the guns though!
I'm curious while we're on the topic, how many SVT owners here do have first shot fliers?
And if you do, have you taken a close look at the end of the brake for copper residue?
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Old 06-22-2010, 2:15 PM
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The trials results that Thomas mentions aren't pulled out of his arse. Test results and reasons for scrapping the production are documented. So while what you say might be true as for solutions to "problem refub guns" it's not really relevant as to "history."

My own SVTs are original condition and as such, they typically shoot softball-plus sized groups at 100m. I can't say the first shot is consistently a flyer and all others fit into a dime sized group. My older eyes shooting iron sights are a variable as is the general wear of hard use on the Finnish front.

If you've tuned your SVTs to be tack drivers, congrats. It still doesn't change the reasons the Soviets gave for their production decisions during WWII.
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Old 06-23-2010, 1:00 PM
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Just playing devils advocate here.......

If the SVT-40 has a detachable magazine (which it has) and any "evil feature" such as a flash hinderer (which it does), isn't it an assult rifle?

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Old 06-23-2010, 1:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dolk View Post
Just playing devils advocate here.......

If the SVT-40 has a detachable magazine (which it has) and any "evil feature" such as a flash hinderer (which it does), isn't it an assult rifle?

dolk
it's not a flash suppressor. it's a muzzle break. i assure you the ports do absolutely NOTHING to suppress the muzzle flash. watch one being fired at night if you don't believe me

and since it's only semi auto, it's not an assault rifle. neither is the M1 (no matter what the government tries to tell us)
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Old 06-23-2010, 1:17 PM
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OK Muzzle break........Not OK Flash suppressor.

I was trying to buy a SVT-40 and the guy (back east) was worried about that. I told him to look at this thread and I would pose the question for him. And you answered that one.

Thank you

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  #35  
Old 06-23-2010, 2:51 PM
LoneRider LoneRider is offline
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If this SVT has scope rails milled in the receiver, use a repro mount. 95% of them have to be fitted. This is a plus because they fit tight enough that you don't need the locking pin, thus the notch ground out on the rear of the receiver and permanently altering the rifle. Use a plastic, brass, or lead hammer to tap it into position. If you can't do it with your hand, and have to tap it in, it ain't going anywhere.
Even if it doesn't have scope rails that's not a problem. If it doesn't I just won't bother with the optics and shoot it with open sights. I'm a firm believer in shooting a rifle without any optical sights until I've achieved a certain level of proficiency with said weapon.

I've got an interesting anecdote of a Tokarev SVT-40 being used to deadly effect as a sniper rifle. It comes from my old surfing buddy and Vietnam veteran. His unit came under fire from a Viet Cong sniper during a patrol. Before the Viet Cong was killed by the patrol he'd managed to kill two US soldiers and injure a third within a 400 meter radius of his position. (The first two he'd killed with his first two shots) and the third he wounded as the patrol was taking cover. When the soldiers overran his position they discovered a telescope sighted Tokarev.

Granted this is as much a testament to the Viet Cong sniper but there is evidence (2 KIA and 1 WIA) that the quick follow-up shot capability of the Tokarev in this incidence proved to be helpful.
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