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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 06-15-2010, 7:15 PM
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Default AB962?

Is there another piece of the AB962 puzzle going into effect in July? Fact or FUD?
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Old 06-15-2010, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple K View Post
Is there another piece of the AB962 puzzle going into effect in July? Fact or FUD?
No. Nothing more until 2011.
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Old 06-15-2010, 8:05 PM
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Hi Purple...

None I know of.

Expected 962 litigation is coming 'real soon now'. (I know, I know...)

The delays are due to relatively nonsubstantive matters outside the gun sphere's control - though it is important
enough background work 'getting ducks in a row' that we want to hold our horses til it's 100% squared away.
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:15 PM
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AB962 will not survive much longer; it's clearly not sustainable given the reasons discussed here in the recent past.
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Old 06-16-2010, 8:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
AB962 will not survive much longer; it's clearly not sustainable given the reasons discussed here in the recent past.
What are the chances that appeals will add longevity to the law being applicable as Chainsaw mentioned?

In any case, I hope if AB962 gets overturned, we don't have a plethora of out of state vendors who refuse to ship here anyway. Non-CA vendors tend to buy into some of the worst FUD out there and it's hard to convince them what's what.

Midway for example, won't ship ammo to Los Angeles while Cabela's and many others will. The LA ammo law, so I have been told, only applies to ammo dealers within the city. Of which there are few anyway. If the point of sale is out of LA, they can't enforce what gets shipped here. So no fingerprint or ID.

Last edited by bodger; 06-16-2010 at 8:27 AM..
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  #6  
Old 06-16-2010, 8:58 AM
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Ammo prices are already high at local shops. It will only get worse until AB962 goes away, if ever. I would stock up as much as you can, while you can. Don't know about you but if I have to drive to Oregon or even Nevada, unless im renting a truck and buying all the ammo, driving to another state for ammo is not very cost effective. Might as well buy it local and save yourself whats really valuable (time).




Quote:
Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
Quite a few friends have asked me about AB962; they've heard a variety of rumors. Here is more or less what I tell them (and Bill & Gene, please correct anything in there that is wrong):

AB962 was passed, and it indeed prohibits buying ammo mail-order, beginning in February 2011. While this sounds bad (in particular if you want to use specialty ammo, meaning stuff that's not available at Walmart, or where local gun stores have ridiculous prices), it's not all that bad, for a variety of reasons:
  • You have lots of time to stock up. Buy a year's or two year's worth of specialty ammo, in the fall of 2010. Remember that local stores are not affected, so don't bother stocking up on generic 9mm ammo which will continue to be available at Walmart. There are rumors around that the ban really goes in effect sooner - those are wrong.
  • The new law is going to be challenged in court, and it seems plausible (but by no means guaranteed) that it will be overturned. Expect that to take a year or two (it's likely to involve several rounds of appeal). So the draught is likely to last only a few years. That's why you should only stock up for a year or two.
  • Interestingly, AB962 is not really a 2nd amendment issue. The way it is likely to be fought in court has little to do with the well-known Heller and McDonald cases. Also, while some people are making noise that they'll try to overturn AB962 legislatively, that's unlikely to succeed.
  • For some generic ammo, mail-order is currently cheaper than local retail. But good sales at sporting good stores, Walmart, and gun shows (Miwall!) are close or competitive with the lowest mail-order prices. This means that shopping for deals will be more work - instead of just clicking on CheaperThanDirt or MidwayUSA, you'll have to ask around what prices are.
  • The law exempts FFLs from the mail-order ban. Some local gun stores have already said that they will be willing to accept shipments of mail-order ammo on behalf of others (obviously, for a fee), or will be ready to special-order ammo even in small quantities. This means that shooting with specialty ammo will continue to work, except you'll have to pay your local gun store for procesing the shipment for you.
  • Legally, even 03 FFL (a.k.a. C&R collectors license) in conjunction with the CA DoJ's CoE (certificate of eligibility, to work in a gun store) ought to be exempt from the ban. Those two licenses are easily available to everyone; this would be an excellent time to apply for them. And, with 03 FFL + CoE, you are also exempt from the "1 handgun per 30 days" rule, and get discounts at Brownell. However, it is NOT clear that the big mail-order vendors will actually understand that rule; it's quite possible they'll refuse to ship to individuals in California who hold only a 03 FFL (and not the 01 FFL that real gun stores have). Time will tell.
  • Cheap ammo will continue to be available in neighboring states, in particular in Oregon (the land of no sales tax). The law does not ban Californians from driving out of state to shop there. It's only 6 hours from the bay area to Medford, which has a Walmart and a few gun stores. If you buy $1000 worth of ammo in Oregon, the typical savings will pay for the gas for the trip! Expect gun stores near the border in Medford, Reno, Las Vegas, and Yuma to be really well stocked, with good deals, to serve the market of Californians looking for inexpensive specialty ammo.
  • Similarly, one of the best mail order ammo vendors (Outdoor Marksman) has a retail location and warehouse in Salem, OR (about 10 hours from the bay area). If you really need lots of ammo, or specialty ammo, it's a 2-day trip. For a serious shooter, who goes through many thousands $ of ammo per year, that's a good investment.
  • And if you really need unusual mail-order ammo that is not available at any retail location (not even Oregon / Arizona gun stores, including Outdoor Marksman), have it shipped to a friend in OR, NV or AZ, and visit them.
  • Lastly and most importantly, reload. Spring 2011, when you have run out of ammo, will be a good time to get a Dillon 650 for father's day. It's possible that some of the more risk-averse mail-order vendors of reloading components (bullets, primers, powder) will refuse to ship to California (they are wrong, but Sportsman's Supply is wrong most of the time), but such components are available from a variety of vendors.

In summary: AB962 is likely to be a bit of a hassle for a few years, but not a big deal. It will probably go away, and it can be worked around. Other gun control measures (handgun roster, AWB, class 3 ban) are much bigger problems.
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Old 06-16-2010, 9:18 AM
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Gene talked about a lawsuit to fight this


still waiting
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Old 06-16-2010, 11:29 AM
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I thought this effected only handgun ammo, not rifle...
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  #9  
Old 06-16-2010, 12:21 PM
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I would expect an injunction.
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Old 06-16-2010, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by du9207 View Post
Gene talked about a lawsuit to fight this


still waiting



mentioned above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Hi Purple...

None I know of.

Expected 962 litigation is coming 'real soon now'. (I know, I know...)

The delays are due to relatively nonsubstantive matters outside the gun sphere's control - though it is important
enough background work 'getting ducks in a row' that we want to hold our horses til it's 100% squared away.
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  #11  
Old 06-16-2010, 1:24 PM
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I expect Wal-Mart to stop selling Ammo 100%, they caved on guns theyll cave on ammo like K-mart did. Word on the street is that Cabelas wont ship any to CA either, rifle or otherwise just so they dont have the laibility.

Cant say I blame any of them.

Time to move to a free state or buy a truck with a false bed, Nevada and Arizona should be full come Feb once the spigots here turn off.

PS - I expect comrade de leon's 962 expansion to pass as well. Who ever here lives in that fools district, shame on you for not working hard enough to oust that commie sob!!!!!!
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  #12  
Old 06-16-2010, 8:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
No. Nothing more until 2011.
That's what I thought! Some folks at work were certain otherwise. I started doubting my feeble memory.
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Old 06-16-2010, 9:54 PM
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NFA needs to be repealed before AB962. NFA is a direct violation of the second amendment, 962 is not.
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