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  #41  
Old 06-19-2010, 4:17 PM
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What would they charge you for exactly?

The fact that you have a 12050 License exempts you from the Federal GFSZ act. It also exempts you from the California GFSZ act. PC 626.9 says:

Quote:
(l)This section does not apply to ... a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4...
If you violate the restrictions on your license you can lose your license pre McDonald. It's not at all clear they can yank your license post McDonald (and you have to be caught concealing in a school zone which means you aren't concealing...)

However, this will get taken care of as a second order concern to people getting permits in the first place. Go get one.

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  #42  
Old 06-19-2010, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
What would they charge you for exactly?

The fact that you have a 12050 License exempts you from the Federal GFSZ act. It also exempts you from the California GFSZ act. PC 626.9 says:

Quote:
(l)This section does not apply to ... a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4...
If you violate the restrictions on your license you can lose your license pre McDonald. It's not at all clear they can yank your license post McDonald (and you have to be caught concealing in a school zone which means you aren't concealing...)

However, this will get taken care of as a second order concern to people getting permits in the first place. Go get one.

-Gene
If your CCW has a restriction on it that makes the License not valid within the 1000' of a school, then how can it be valid for the purposes of 626.9? If a Sheriff can put time/place/manner restrictions on the License, your CCW is only valid under those circumstances.

That's probably the thinking...
  #43  
Old 06-19-2010, 5:10 PM
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Originally Posted by santacruzstefan View Post
What about in Santa Cruz? This might be the most liberal county per capita of all, and if I remember the CCW map, we were a red zone. Should I get some kind of training before I apply, might that better my chances?

What about listing various crimes that have occurred recently (for example, there have been a number of high-profile stabbings and shootings here in town) either on the form or during the interview, as a reason to bolster the self-defense argument? What about bringing up the UOC ban, saying that CCW is the only option now?
not to get off topic by switching counties here but i would realy like to know more about santa cruz county. i have been under the impression like others to continue to wait as a deny could hinder you in the future. i know this thread has been directed at sac county but is this drive to apply aimed at all red counties. by applying are we simply make a stance for the future.
  #44  
Old 06-19-2010, 6:39 PM
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I don't have a very good CCW weapon right now but would like to at least get the ball rolling. If I apply with my current weapon (CZ75BD) and qualify, when I get a smaller more concealable weapon, can I just qualify with that and get it added on? Would it be a hassle or is it easy? Thanks
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  #45  
Old 06-19-2010, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by westsiderippa View Post
not to get off topic by switching counties here but i would realy like to know more about santa cruz county. i have been under the impression like others to continue to wait as a deny could hinder you in the future. i know this thread has been directed at sac county but is this drive to apply aimed at all red counties. by applying are we simply make a stance for the future.
People always assume that. The application has the question on it "Have you ever been denied a permt?" People assume that it's a negative to answer "Yes" but what it really is, is a question to determine if you have already been determined to be not of good character or a have disqualifying reason.
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  #46  
Old 06-19-2010, 8:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CSDGuy View Post
If your CCW has a restriction on it that makes the License not valid within the 1000' of a school, then how can it be valid for the purposes of 626.9? If a Sheriff can put time/place/manner restrictions on the License, your CCW is only valid under those circumstances.

That's probably the thinking...
And under a post McDonald analysis, the County would have to explain why the restriction passes intermediate or strict scrutiny - a challenge I don't expect them to be able to easily surmount. Also, not abiding by your restrictions does not make the permit invalid until it is revoked.

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  #47  
Old 06-19-2010, 9:52 PM
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Ooh, I like that! There's a lot of much needed destruction needing to be done to NY's rather notorious permit restriction practice.
  #48  
Old 06-20-2010, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
It is my *personal* perception that Sykes has John McGinness relaxing momentarily on CCW restrictions as a CYA maneuver. Go ahead and apply. You fill out the form, then call April to schedule an appointment. Some Thursday in the future, you will go in for an oral interview. Bring the form and a $20 MO. You will then be contacted by a Detective, then you will receive a written denial or permit in the mail. Cannot hurt to try.
Go ahead and call to make the appointment. The person never seems to never answer the phone or clear the mail box so you cant leave a message.My neighbor has been tring tro get an appointment for a couple months now.
  #49  
Old 06-20-2010, 3:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
And under a post McDonald analysis, the County would have to explain why the restriction passes intermediate or strict scrutiny - a challenge I don't expect them to be able to easily surmount. Also, not abiding by your restrictions does not make the permit invalid until it is revoked.

-Gene
Gene currently there are a lot of people who have had CCWs for a while in this PRE Mcdonald land. Are you suggesting that the restrictions printed on a license can only result in the revocation of a license?? If the license is stated to be not valid in certain "time, place, manner, and circumstances" wouldn't they be able to charge you with violating pc 12031 and pc 12025 if you were to ignore those restrictions?
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  #50  
Old 06-20-2010, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bigcalidave View Post
Gene currently there are a lot of people who have had CCWs for a while in this PRE Mcdonald land. Are you suggesting that the restrictions printed on a license can only result in the revocation of a license?? If the license is stated to be not valid in certain "time, place, manner, and circumstances" wouldn't they be able to charge you with violating pc 12031 and pc 12025 if you were to ignore those restrictions?
That's exactly what he said, and a statement doesn't mean actuality.
  #51  
Old 06-20-2010, 3:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 1rubicon View Post
Go ahead and call to make the appointment. The person never seems to never answer the phone or clear the mail box so you cant leave a message.My neighbor has been tring tro get an appointment for a couple months now.
Then have them apply by filling out the app and send it into them Certified Mail Return Receipt Requested.
  #52  
Old 06-20-2010, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
Then have them apply by filling out the app and send it into them Certified Mail Return Receipt Requested.
My understanding is that it has to be turned in in person.
  #53  
Old 06-20-2010, 5:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcalidave View Post
Gene currently there are a lot of people who have had CCWs for a while in this PRE Mcdonald land. Are you suggesting that the restrictions printed on a license can only result in the revocation of a license?? If the license is stated to be not valid in certain "time, place, manner, and circumstances" wouldn't they be able to charge you with violating pc 12031 and pc 12025 if you were to ignore those restrictions?
Oh you can bet your bippie that a DA could run you broke trying to make something stick. Who wants to volunteer to be our test case. Any other takers?

I think I would want a waiver from my lawyer offering free representation before I attempted defying sheriff restrictions. Doesnt the PC also state the sheriff can put any restriction they see fit?
A sample of a ridiculous restriction would be "CCW only valid if wearing an I love McGinness sticker on my back.
Now, invalid if not wearing the sticker?
Id like to hear more arguments on this.
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  #54  
Old 06-20-2010, 6:12 PM
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Thebronze, have them put that in writing. Also, I often utilize signed and dated "documents as attached or under separate cover" letters of transmittal for hand-delivered documents (many of which become evidence in litigation/arbitration); takes about 30 seconds to draft and print.
  #55  
Old 06-20-2010, 9:38 PM
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Oh you can bet your bippie that a DA could run you broke trying to make something stick. Who wants to volunteer to be our test case. Any other takers?
I wonder if there is any organization that defends gun owners free of charge when a DA tries to criminalize behavior that is perfectly legal?

I'm amused at the fear of the CCW issuers in this thread. You have a valid 12050 license and post McDonald the issuer has to justify his restriction on your right to bear arms. Remember that criminal charges are beyond a reasonable doubt...

Anyone in Sac should apply and not spend a lot of time worrying about what the sheriff puts on an otherwise granted 12050 license.

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  #56  
Old 06-20-2010, 10:33 PM
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Let me sum this up for everyone. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the idea of the restrictions invalidate the license on the spot, everyone in Sacramento County should apply for a CCW if they're not otherwise ineligible. By applying, you are helping the Sykes case, and you are helping increase the CCW population of the state in general. Can I make this any more clearer?
  #57  
Old 06-21-2010, 1:29 AM
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I have filled out all my paperwork and have my statement all written up. I have called the number provided and as someone else pointed out the voicemail box is ALWAYS full and no one ever picks up. On the CCW process form on the Sacramento Sherriff website, it says you must call the number to make an appointment. Is this their genius way of not having to issue permits? Someone said send it certified mail, but it clearly states on the website you must call to make an appointment. I'm not sure my information would be looked at if I send it certified mail. Do you suggest I do so anyways?

http://www.sacsheriff.com/forms/docu...app_letter.pdf
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Old 06-21-2010, 2:05 AM
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I have filled out all my paperwork and have my statement all written up. I have called the number provided and as someone else pointed out the voicemail box is ALWAYS full and no one ever picks up. On the CCW process form on the Sacramento Sherriff website, it says you must call the number to make an appointment. Is this their genius way of not having to issue permits? Someone said send it certified mail, but it clearly states on the website you must call to make an appointment. I'm not sure my information would be looked at if I send it certified mail. Do you suggest I do so anyways?

http://www.sacsheriff.com/forms/docu...app_letter.pdf
I've sent an email to Ms. Wong asking her if there's a problem.

Last edited by Gray Peterson; 06-21-2010 at 2:15 AM..
  #59  
Old 06-21-2010, 7:32 AM
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Government can't simply ignore written correspondence sent certified/ret. receipt. Your letter should document that you, in good faith, contacted them in their preferred manner (telephone) to no avail, that their voicemail box has consistently been full over the course of x days and unable to take additional messages; give them your return phone number, include the app if need be and send the letter.
  #60  
Old 06-21-2010, 7:45 AM
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Government can't simply ignore written correspondence sent certified/ret. receipt. Your letter should document that you, in good faith, contacted them in their preferred manner (telephone) to no avail, that their voicemail box has consistently been full over the course of x days and unable to take additional messages; give them your return phone number, include the app if need be and send the letter.
I agree fully. Memorialize all contacts and attempts at contact. Phone calls only when required and those are documented as well. You send a Certified letter and it goes into their public correspondence or your applicant file or both and they will retain it for at least 3 years. In the case of a CCW file, if they issue, all correspondence will exist as long as the file is active.

People like me get paid to crawl all over those files and what we discover is sometimes quite enlightening.

You would not have Case Law like Salute v Pitchess and Guillory v Gates without all those nice documents and real interesting comments on some.

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  #61  
Old 06-21-2010, 9:48 AM
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haveyourmile- she will answer the phone eventually. Sometimes right away, sometimes it will take all day, but on the occasions i've called i've always gotten through.

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I have filled out all my paperwork and have my statement all written up. I have called the number provided and as someone else pointed out the voicemail box is ALWAYS full and no one ever picks up. On the CCW process form on the Sacramento Sherriff website, it says you must call the number to make an appointment. Is this their genius way of not having to issue permits? Someone said send it certified mail, but it clearly states on the website you must call to make an appointment. I'm not sure my information would be looked at if I send it certified mail. Do you suggest I do so anyways?

http://www.sacsheriff.com/forms/docu...app_letter.pdf
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:11 AM
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haveyourmile- she will answer the phone eventually. Sometimes right away, sometimes it will take all day, but on the occasions i've called i've always gotten through.
Aright I guess I'll keep trying. Thanks
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Old 06-21-2010, 2:35 PM
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Just noticed this on the San Diego Sheriff's CCW webpage. Does that mean they are considering apps for self-defense, or are they speaking more in terms of like "I have been threatened by a stalker" kinda personal protection?

Quote:
http://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html

"Good cause is an individual issue; however, if applying for business purposes, proof that you are a legitimate and fully credentialed business will be required as well as having to demonstrate that good cause for carrying a firearm exist.

If you want to apply strictly for personal protection; the required documentation will be discussed at the time of the initial first interview, additional documentation may be requested."
I am curious because my brother related a story to me last night about how he met someone just last week that has an SD county CCW that he's had for 3 yrs and he is for all intents and purposes just a regular joe. The guy told him he just applied and jumped thru all the hoops and got approved. Unfortunately my brother didn't know enough to ask him what his "good cause" was.
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Old 06-21-2010, 2:55 PM
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Been trying to get through all day again today. Still nothing. Voicemail is still full. I've been trying for days and days. This is getting REALLY frustrating. Everything is all filled out I just need a damn appointment!
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Old 06-21-2010, 3:09 PM
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I think the first step would be to donate at least $5,000 to a major candidate's political campaign.

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Old 06-21-2010, 3:39 PM
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I think the first step would be to donate at least $5,000 to a major candidate's political campaign.

That's not true with Sacramento County.
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Old 06-21-2010, 3:40 PM
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Have, spend the $3 on the letter and let us know if you don't get a response. At some point banging your head on the wall ceases to be the wall's fault.
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Old 06-21-2010, 3:54 PM
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Have, spend the $3 on the letter and let us know if you don't get a response. At some point banging your head on the wall ceases to be the wall's fault.
HAHA. Okay. Well I'll go ahead and do that today, then. I know multiple people have suggested it, I just know on the website they were very specific about making an appointment.

Should I include something with the packet that says I'm mailing it in because I couldn't get through on the phone? I REALLY don't want to be turned away because I "didn't follow directions"


Edit: Nevermind. Saw your piece about including a letter about attempting to contact via telephone to no avail. Thanks for the assistance, I'll keep you posted.
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Old 06-21-2010, 4:00 PM
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OK everyone, stop beating your head against a wall. Send a letter certified mail with return receipt requested to the following address:

Amber M. Wong, Sr. SRS
Special Investigations/Intelligence Bureau
711 G Street, Room 306
Sacramento, CA 95814

Send this in the body of a formal letter:

"Ms. Wong,

I have made repeated attempts to contact you but your voice mail is constantly full and I am never able to reach you. Per Salute v. Pitchess, the sheriff's office is required to process my application upon receipt of it by your office.

If you have any questions, please feel free to send me a letter, or email me at example@example.com (your email address).

With regards,

Your Name".
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Old 06-21-2010, 4:14 PM
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Is it possible to just walk into the office and request to make an appointment in person?
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  #71  
Old 06-21-2010, 4:14 PM
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Originally Posted by haveyourmile View Post
Been trying to get through all day again today. Still nothing. Voicemail is still full. I've been trying for days and days. This is getting REALLY frustrating. Everything is all filled out I just need a damn appointment!
Patience, perseverance and persistence is required.

It took me 2 weeks of calling to get on the phone with her. Once I got the appointment to submit an app it was 3 1/2 weeks out. It will reportedly be another 3-4 weeks after application submission to get the phone interview done. Dunno how long is takes to get approval/denial, but I'm personally not expecting that to be done in less than another 3-4 weeks from the phone interview, though they have 90 days from submission of app or 30 days after DOJ background results, whatever is later to get back to you. Anecdotal research I have done indicates that from application submission to permit in hand is about 6 months if all goes well.

EDIT:
Or do what the experts above who responded while I was writing this advise. They know far better than me.
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WANTED: G19. New or near new condition in Sacramento area.

Last edited by jb7706; 06-21-2010 at 4:19 PM.. Reason: update info per prior posts.
  #72  
Old 06-21-2010, 4:39 PM
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Aright. Everything was sent priority mail with a delivery confirmation slip. It easy easy as pie and cost was less than $6 to get it sent out. I put the check in along with my statement and a letter where I used Grays wording about her not picking up. Hopefully I'll hear soon. I sent it from downtown so I would imagine she'd receive it tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help.

JB - Good luck to you!
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:35 PM
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JB - Good luck to you!
To you as well. Maybe we will be in the same training class once approved. Keep me informed of your progress, eh?
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Sacramento would declare martial law sooner than they'd meet with Gandhi, Gautama Budda, and Jesus Christ if the three were packing heat.
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Even people not from San Francisco can appreciate a good public spanking like this.
WANTED: G19. New or near new condition in Sacramento area.
  #74  
Old 06-22-2010, 6:59 AM
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FYI - at the end of McGuniess Monday on 1530 yesterday, the sheriff all but said apply for CCW. He sees in the future they will be issued more and more often. I know he is a Lame Duck and actions speak louder than words, but I was quite taken aback by this change in his stance. Prior, he would talk the talk be then weasel out...very interesting....
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Old 06-22-2010, 8:59 AM
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Originally Posted by BobB35 View Post
FYI - at the end of McGuniess Monday on 1530 yesterday, the sheriff all but said apply for CCW. He sees in the future they will be issued more and more often. I know he is a Lame Duck and actions speak louder than words, but I was quite taken aback by this change in his stance. Prior, he would talk the talk be then weasel out...very interesting....
Is it a call in show? If it is, ask him why his investigator is not answering her phone..
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Old 06-22-2010, 2:31 PM
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All,

If you're going to send in your packet certified mail return receipt requested, please private message me, or just private message me if you're interested in applying. I need to send you an email address to schedule an appointment. Do not be concerned that you "wasted your money", you did not. You're starting a countdown clock anyway.
  #77  
Old 06-22-2010, 5:25 PM
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FYI I called the number today.1st time trying. I got the voicemail is full part of the recording and I did nothing I pressed nothing. It said if you dont have a touch tone phone please stay on the line and someone will be with you shortly.
2 seconds later Amber Wong answered the phone. My call was placed at 3:30 today.

So maybe that is the ticket, just dial the number and wait for it to assume your handsfree and it routes you to the operator. Being my firsts try I was flabbergasted it turned out to be the person we all want. She took my request I added the date and time to my calendar and I hung up. Just dumb luck or are you guys loosing it?
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Old 06-22-2010, 6:17 PM
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Just dumb luck or are you guys loosing it?
Just good luck Ty. Congrats on making thru the first try. I can document no less than 11 times over 2 weeks before I got her on the phone. Finally had to trade email with her to get an appointment. I did the whole wait for an operator thing too, it just goes back to her VM. About how far out is your appointment?
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Originally Posted by 7x57 View Post
Sacramento would declare martial law sooner than they'd meet with Gandhi, Gautama Budda, and Jesus Christ if the three were packing heat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Even people not from San Francisco can appreciate a good public spanking like this.
WANTED: G19. New or near new condition in Sacramento area.
  #79  
Old 06-22-2010, 6:36 PM
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About how far out is your appointment?
just under 30 days.
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Old 06-22-2010, 7:43 PM
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"Anyone in Sac should apply and not spend a lot of time worrying about what the sheriff puts on an otherwise granted 12050 license.

-Gene"

So I should apply for one even if I am going to use the good cause statement of "for the protection of my life and my family" and I know it will be denied?
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