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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 05-24-2010, 9:16 PM
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Default Lock Removal S&W Revolver

I have a Smith and Wesson Model 66-7 that has an internal lock. I want to remove it, and purchase a plug that is available for the Hillary hole that will be left behind once the lock is gone.
The lock can be replaced.

I have a gun safe, and follow all firearm safety procedures for storage and use.

Are there any legal ramifications to beware of is this is done? Especially if I were to eventually possibly sell the revolver without the lock?

I searched this forum, didn't find any threads relating to this.
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Old 05-24-2010, 9:34 PM
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I don't really know. I doubt it matters as the ILS is not good enough to meet the recent federal lock requirement for transfer.

But, you never know about civil litigation if you later sell it without the ILS. (So, I would put it back in if you were to sell it.)

Doesn't the S&W ILS system result in a narrow hammer -- how do you make up for that in removing the ILS?

I recently bought a 637-2 with the ILS -- first S&W I've owned with the ILS (and I've owned 16 S&W's) -- I absolutely hate the way that ILS butchers the revolver... I'm likely to sell it; and never buy a S&W again.
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  #3  
Old 05-24-2010, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodger View Post

Are there any legal ramifications to beware of is this is done? Especially if I were to eventually possibly sell the revolver without the lock?

I searched this forum, didn't find any threads relating to this.
There could be.

If you shoot an intruder with the pistol, they may try to demonize you in court by telling the jury that you removed a safety feature. So, just have a good story ready if you do....

All joking aside, I've heard of people having a concern with the recoil actuating the lock. I don't know if that's plausible (I don't thing it is) but still, it might could happen...
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Old 05-24-2010, 9:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CEDaytonaRydr View Post
There could be.

If you shoot an intruder with the pistol, they may try to demonize you in court by telling the jury that you removed a safety feature. So, just have a good story ready if you do....

All joking aside, I've heard of people having a concern with the recoil actuating the lock. I don't know if that's plausible (I don't thing it is) but still, it might could happen...

There's a video on YouTube that shows an S&W with an IL that is clearly causing the gun to malfunction whilst being dry-fired. You can see the "flag" come up and the firing pin not coming forward several times during the ten or so dry fires.

I just hate the idea of the IL, and how S&W caved into the Clintons and started that ridiculous feature.
I have to admit, I didn't even know about it until I had already bought the gun. Now, it hacks me off just to see it there. I was just curious, seeing as how this is CA, if removing the lock made me an instant felon or some such nonsense.

Don't know if the gun was rigged for the video or what. But supposedly, there have been documented instances where the IL malfunctioned. It's an ongoing debate over on the S&W forum.
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  #5  
Old 05-24-2010, 9:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodger View Post
There's a video on YouTube that shows an S&W with an IL that is clearly causing the gun to malfunction whilst being dry-fired. You can see the "flag" come up and the firing pin not coming forward several times during the ten or so dry fires.

I just hate the idea of the IL, and how S&W caved into the Clintons and started that ridiculous feature.
I have to admit, I didn't even know about it until I had already bought the gun. Now, it hacks me off just to see it there. I was just curious, seeing as how this is CA, if removing the lock made me an instant felon or some such nonsense.

Don't know if the gun was rigged for the video or what. But supposedly, there have been documented instances where the IL malfunctioned. It's an ongoing debate over on the S&W forum.
That sounds like a good enough justification to me.
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Old 05-24-2010, 9:54 PM
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I have shot thousands of rounds through post-lock guns without a problem. There were issues with some early post lock guns but they have since been resolved. But if it makes you feel better, go for it. If you ever sell it though, personally, I'd buy a factory original than a bubba'ed gun.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:34 PM
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Several comments, bodger:

1.) I think ills with the lock are only on early implementations. My 2005 625 w/lock is fine, and
I've decided not to remove it (mostly due to laziness, some due to appearance issues). I've
actually slept on this gun as my primary, too.

2.) If your 66-7 is a Rostered gun and it's still Rostered if & when you were to sell it in future
(and if the Roster is not killed off by then! ) then it will have to be returned to the shape in
which it was Rostered: to sell it back to a CA dealer; without restoring the modification, it could
be PPTd to another Californian, sold via consignment, or sold out of state.

3.) There's no legal repercussions for such a modified gun [unless a kid got hold of it, etc. - but
then you'd have other storage problems anyway.] Even if you used the gun to take out a perp,
the big question will revolve around the shoot being legit; if you say you shot the guy because
the removed lock caused a failure, you're going to jail for at least manslaughter: valid shoots need
to be intentional and to stop a valid threat to life/limb of you and/or yours.

4.) Don't "bubba" a nice S&W wheelgun.
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  #8  
Old 05-24-2010, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodger View Post
I have a Smith and Wesson Model 66-7 that has an internal lock. I want to remove it, and purchase a plug that is available for the Hillary hole that will be left behind once the lock is gone.
The lock can be replaced.

I have a gun safe, and follow all firearm safety procedures for storage and use.

Are there any legal ramifications to beware of is this is done? Especially if I were to eventually possibly sell the revolver without the lock?

I searched this forum, didn't find any threads relating to this.
I don't like the lock. Bought a Smith 21 but just couldn't warm up to it. I used a leather punch to punch out a soft, grey magnetic plug (can't recall what it's called but it looked good and stayed put) and set it it into the lock. Covered it without removing the internals.

Regarding liability, that's an unending discussion much like the Browning mag disconnect safety one. I'm not an attorney but I chose to not disable it.
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  #9  
Old 05-24-2010, 11:47 PM
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I've got the lockworks down pat on S&W revolvers. The hardest part is the hand spring, and I use a tension wire screwed to my workbench to get that spring set in properly. That's a re-assembly move where you definitely need three hands.
I've polished the rebound slides on an Arkie stone and the whole bit. Can't say I'm an expert, but I definitely have the skill level required to detail strip the lockworks, remove the lock and put everything back properly. Including replacing the lock if necessary at some point.
There's a member over at the S&W forum that uses a lathe to mill out a nice tight plug, stainless or blue, and it affixes with a tiny clip on the inside so it can be removed and the lock replaced.
Not too much Bubba involved if done properly. No worries, no lock, no Hillary Hole.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/accesso...lock-plug.html



Last edited by bodger; 05-24-2010 at 11:52 PM..
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  #10  
Old 05-25-2010, 6:14 AM
littlejake littlejake is offline
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S&W isn't what it was... They were bought by the Safe-T-Hammer Corp circa 2000 who has the patent on the ILS system.

No one wants the ILS system, but they put it in anyway.

IMO, S&W hasn't been the premier revolver source since they stopped using "pinned" barrels in the early 1980's.
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Old 05-25-2010, 9:38 AM
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bodger, that looks pretty sweet! If I ever end up with a post-lock S&W, I'll probably end up doing something like that to it.

However, if I do buy another revolver, it'll likely be one of the older .357s or a .44 magnum (the infamous model 29... and before you ask, yes, I *do* feel lucky). That being the case, it'll probably be devoid of such locking mechanism anyways.
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2010, 9:44 AM
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This is part of the reason I bought a couple of used S&W revolvers last year - no locks. However I bought my 340PD new in 2005 and it has the lock. I can't really tell that the lock is doing anything bad, except I don't like the way it looks. I have no idea where the key is, either.
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Old 05-25-2010, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtDinosaur View Post
This is part of the reason I bought a couple of used S&W revolvers last year - no locks. However I bought my 340PD new in 2005 and it has the lock. I can't really tell that the lock is doing anything bad, except I don't like the way it looks. I have no idea where the key is, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loather View Post
bodger, that looks pretty sweet! If I ever end up with a post-lock S&W, I'll probably end up doing something like that to it.

However, if I do buy another revolver, it'll likely be one of the older .357s or a .44 magnum (the infamous model 29... and before you ask, yes, I *do* feel lucky). That being the case, it'll probably be devoid of such locking mechanism anyways.

I had not bought a S&W revolver in quite a while when I bought this Model 66-7. I had no idea there was an internal lock and was pretty pissed when I realized that I had purchased a handgun with a ridiculous feature like that.

I just don't like the idea of it and the fact that it is there, nor the look of it.
From what I can gather, and as Bill pointed out as well, concerns about the internal lock causing a malfunction are pretty well unfounded at this point. At least on the newer guns.
Nevertheless, since there don't seem to be any legal ramifications, I'm happy to have pulled my lock and plugged it. I'll be purchasing pre-lock Smiths or other brand wheel guns in the future though.

The upside is, I learned how to effectively detail strip and re-assemble the lockworks on a Smith revolver. Something I would probably not have taken the time to learn otherwise.

I could have done without the part where I had to scour the floor around the work area with a magnet to find the damn tiny springs that flew all over the place when I did the first dis-assembly though.
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Old 10-06-2010, 8:09 AM
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Nice. Bullseye Smith really nailed it.

That's a great looking revolver you've got there.
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Old 10-06-2010, 8:24 AM
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Take it out. Nothin to worry about.
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:52 AM
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You don't actually have to remove the key hole. Just remove the lock tab, leave the key hole in place, and then that way, you don't have to go through the cost and effort to find and fit a plug.
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Old 10-06-2010, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CEDaytonaRydr View Post
There could be.

If you shoot an intruder with the pistol, they may try to demonize you in court by telling the jury that you removed a safety feature. So, just have a good story ready if you do....

All joking aside, I've heard of people having a concern with the recoil actuating the lock. I don't know if that's plausible (I don't thing it is) but still, it might could happen...
The only Smith I own w/ the lock is a .500 mag, and the recoil from up to the 500 grainers hasn't set the lock...
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Old 10-06-2010, 3:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodger View Post
There's a video on YouTube that shows an S&W with an IL that is clearly causing the gun to malfunction whilst being dry-fired. You can see the "flag" come up and the firing pin not coming forward several times during the ten or so dry fires.

I just hate the idea of the IL, and how S&W caved into the Clintons and started that ridiculous feature.
I have to admit, I didn't even know about it until I had already bought the gun. Now, it hacks me off just to see it there. I was just curious, seeing as how this is CA, if removing the lock made me an instant felon or some such nonsense.

Don't know if the gun was rigged for the video or what. But supposedly, there have been documented instances where the IL malfunctioned. It's an ongoing debate over on the S&W forum.
I'm sure glad that I went with the Colt Python. Reliable time tested design and a company that didn't gladly jump on the anti-2A bandwagon and maim their product.
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Old 10-06-2010, 5:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
I'm sure glad that I went with the Colt Python. Reliable time tested design and a company that didn't gladly jump on the anti-2A bandwagon and maim their product.

Yeah, wish I had kept my Python.
6" blue, classic. I bought and sold a lot of guns back in the seventies, and that was one I traded off for something else.

Impetuous youth.
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Old 10-06-2010, 5:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B Strong View Post
The only Smith I own w/ the lock is a .500 mag, and the recoil from up to the 500 grainers hasn't set the lock...
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it shouldn't, unless it's broken...

Smith and Wesson has been in business for a long time. If they put something on their revolvers, you can be fairly certain it's been tested well enough to trust...
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Old 10-06-2010, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CEDaytonaRydr View Post
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it shouldn't, unless it's broken...

Smith and Wesson has been in business for a long time. If they put something on their revolvers, you can be fairly certain it's been tested well enough to trust...

I agree, but then again, one would have hoped that they could have been trusted not to cave into the Clintons and put these stupid locks on revolvers.

But it kind of wasn't S&W that did it anyway.

Smith and Wesson (passed from Wesson family control in 1984) was owned by the British company Tomkins PLC at the time, and was shortly thereafter acquired by Saf-T-Hammer, whatever the hell that is.

I think those timelines are accurate, correct me if I'm wrong there.

I still like my S&W revolvers though, and having the lock outta there is a nice big eff you to Hillary.
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Old 10-06-2010, 7:04 PM
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i have a .44 S&W 629 with the ILS and i have not had any issues at all with it.
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Old 10-06-2010, 7:40 PM
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I have a .44 S&W 629-6 (Mountain Gun) with the lock removed.
Remove the grips, back off the main spring screw and pluck out the gizmo.
Takes only a few minutes.

I wonder if in the 1890s, the S&W New Departure "Lemon Squeezer" went through similar criticism for having a child resistant grip?
[IMG][/IMG]
By the way, it makes a great pocket gun.
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