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  #1  
Old 05-10-2010, 8:10 PM
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Smile .22 magnum revolver... good enof for home defense? gun porn welcome

any of you have experience shooting a .22 mag revolver? what do you think of the round? 2 center mass shots take down a man? im trying to re-evaluate and find a gun that my wife would be more comfortable shooting.

she can shoot anything if she has to. she is a good shot and can handle just fine. but 9mm and up is generally uncomfortable for her to shoot. i want to get her something that she can "make her own" and feel like its hers, be completely comfortable with it. but i want that caliber to be as large as possible.

shes fine with .22LR but if she needed to go for a gun would rather grab my .45 then my .22 so what do you think of the .22 mag? thanks!
here is gunblast take on it: http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus-941Ultralite.htm


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Old 05-10-2010, 8:21 PM
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The old saying is that hits with a 22 is better than misses with anything else. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a 22 but I'd that's what she shoots nest with then I feel that is fine. It shouldn't be about comfort, it should be about ability.
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Old 05-10-2010, 8:25 PM
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Great thinking.

If 9mm is uncomfortable, and she won't put in the requisite practice to be come as proficient as possible, I think a .22 is a great idea. Your thought process of .22 WMR is even better, and BEST of all, you were bright enough to think revolver instead of automatic.

I think a .22 makes a fine self defense choice for certain places, scenarios, and situations - but I would never want anyone to trust a rimfire automatic. Rimfires will never be as reliable as centerfire ammunition, so the importance of a revolver is tantamount.

See my write up here and here for demonstrations and pictures as to just how far regular old .22 LR can penetrate and expand in a phonebook. I guarantee the results would surprise most people. .22 WMR is going to perform even better - which is an exciting concept.

As to your choice in gun......I'm a Smith and Wesson guy, so I would suggest their new 351 in .22 mag (seven round J-frame) or if you wanted to stick with .22LR, then use the gun I used in the tests linked above - a 10 shot 617 K-frame.

Lots of people are going to chime in that a .22 is weak, a joke, incapable of proper expansion, has no "knock down power", that you can't rely on it to effectively stop a bad guy, etc etc. I don't know if you'll be able to count how many "I'll keep my .45 ACP with super duper nuclear hollow points thank you very much" responses you'll get, and yes, there is truth to them. The fact is though, that if a .22 is all your wife can effectively manage - it isn't the end of the world, the .22 can be a PHENOMENAL choice, and certainly beats the hell out of pepper spray.

Many would have us believe that a .22 will simply bounce of a bad guy and make him want to rape you harder. Incorrect.

Below is a pic of the new S&W .22 mag

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Old 05-10-2010, 8:40 PM
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I agree with PutTogether. While a 22 mag is not obviously the ideal round for self defense the truth is if she can control it and will practice with it then why not. I would also go for a revolver if going the rimfire route. I keep my .45 on my nightstand, but I would feel ok if all I had was a 22 mag. While it lacks the hard hit and stopping power of a 45 it's not like you are shooting someone with a nerf gun. I would not keep comming at someone that was shooting at me even if it was "only" a 22 since I don't care to have holes in me. If all else fails she can always empty the gun into them and that should do the trick.
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Old 05-10-2010, 8:45 PM
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very well nicely said PutTogether! i was thinking the same thing and thats why i was thinking of going this rout...

and if i put some crimsons on it... gosh dang...

i LOVE S&W. i just am thinking of the pocketbook
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Old 05-10-2010, 8:55 PM
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For a snubby
Have her try the 38 version with Low recoil 38's
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Old 05-10-2010, 9:03 PM
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I like the 22mag. Its a big improvement over 22lr. I've even dropped a Coyote with one. I'm willing to bet that if you shoot a bad guy with one he is not going to want to continue to fight. Pump 8-10 rounds into him and he will go down.
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Old 05-10-2010, 9:04 PM
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thanks for the suggestions! i have a S&W snub all steel .357mag. she has shot .38s threw it and felt the same as shooting a G26 or equivalent. never tried low recoil rnds...

she has small hands so i was looking for something not "large framed"...
again she can shoot large calibers if she needs to. i just want her to have something she can be as "one with" as i am with my 1911. maybe one day recoil wont bother her. but for now... i would like to find a medium...

good point though about a .22 mag "light frame" possibly being just as much recoil as my .357 shootn .38s... i wish she could try one before i went out to buy one...

as far as the .22mag being loud, thats just fine that just means whoever the attacher is just might think its a .357
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Old 05-10-2010, 9:16 PM
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The only 22mag I ever shot was out of a 6" barrel SA revolver (Ruger Single Six and Heritage RR).

If she is seeking a self defense round with recoil similar to 22lr and 22mag. Maybe let her try 5.7? It's a powerful caliber yet very easy on recoil. Only down side for it's in a full size pistol.
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Old 05-10-2010, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldnoob View Post
The only 22mag I ever shot was out of a 6" barrel SA revolver (Ruger Single Six and Heritage RR).

If she is seeking a self defense round with recoil similar to 22lr and 22mag. Maybe let her try 5.7? It's a powerful caliber yet very easy on recoil. Only down side for it's in a full size pistol.
im not on the "up" with the 5.7... but i heard that "the only cali legal rnds you could get for a 5.7, you might as well be shooting a .22LR."

is that true?
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Old 05-10-2010, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benbangui View Post

good point though about a .22 mag "light frame" possibly being just as much recoil as my .357 shootn .38s... i wish she could try one before i went out to buy one...
Nowhere close. I fired a .22 mag NAA mini revolver and once and it didn't feel as bad as heavy .38s out of my aluminum .38 J-frame. Literally not even the same ballpark, and that is a 5oz gun that you can only hold with two fingers.

If it were a concern though, there is always the 317 revolver in .22LR.

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Old 05-10-2010, 9:40 PM
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it's been said already, but it's worth saying again:

A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with anything else

I agree about revolver being the way to go for rimfire. I'm waiting to be able to buy a .22 revolver for the wife. She's more comfortable with .22 than my .45 and i think the pistolgrip 12ga is out of the question....
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:11 PM
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While this idea might cost a bit more, it may get her down the right path. How about picking up a 617 .22LR and a used model 64 or 67 .38. Put the same exact grips on both guns so they feel the same in her hands. She could train all day with the 617 to the point here a K frame revolver is very natural. In the event of an HD situation, the M64 would feel the same with the exception of recoil. Chances are that with the adrenalin pumping, she'd not notice.

Of course she should shoot the 64/67 from time to time with low power loads. Do you reload? That's the easy way, but if not, this stuff shoots like powder puffs(and leads the barrel for fun and games later when cleaning...)

Last note, the suggestion of an M64 is just because they are fairly inexpensive compared to most other K frames with the exception of older M&Ps and M10s. With all those, the rear sight is just a channel in the top strap, the sight picture would be different between the M64 and the 67/617. It might be easier to get a hold an M66 even though it's a .357 as you can still shoot .38s. That's starting to get quite pricey though. If we weren't in CA, I'd recommend just buying this or one of these or these. Stupid roster prevents that, though. You'd have to find used ones here in CA to PPT.

Last edited by savasyn; 05-10-2010 at 10:16 PM..
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:27 PM
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I personally wouldn't want to trust my life to a 22. Sure plenty of people have been killed with .22's, I'm sure you could kill someone with a pellet gun but I wouldn't consider using that for self defense. If that's all she can shoot then it's better then nothing though.
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benbangui View Post
2 center mass shots take down a man?
Absolutely not. The guy may eventually bleed out, but he will retain the capability to do some monumental damage in the meantime.

A brain stem shot is about the only thing that will instantly stop a guy when using a .22WMR. The problem is that you now have to deal with skull penetration.

Are you sure that she is going to be able to get that cranio-ocular shot when she is fearing for her life?

Teach her to shoot .38s out of a steel-framed revolver (not one of the aluminum-framed ones). Something like a 3" S&W Model 60 would probably be an ideal self-defense gun. Fairly compact, and fairly soft-shooting when using .38 Specials in the gun.



Alternatively, you can look at a revolver in .327 Magnum, but it's my understanding that their recoil is comparable to a soft .38.



I just think that any rimfire gun is only good for intimidation purposes. When it comes to getting rounds on target in a high-stress situation, you need something more than a caliber that is only going to work if bullet placement is exactly right.
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benbangui View Post
im not on the "up" with the 5.7... but i heard that "the only cali legal rnds you could get for a 5.7, you might as well be shooting a .22LR."

is that true?
What you heard was people compare 5.7x28 shooting out of 5.7 pistol barrel VS a 22 MAG shooting out of rifle barrel. As you already know from other posters, barrel length make all the difference.

I don't have the number on top of my head but IIRC, 5.7 out of pistol still out perform a 22mag out of rifle. For a small, low recoil caliber, 5.7 it's really a wonderful round.

5.7 ammo is still on the expensive side. But for defense purpose, IMO they are much better choice than 22mag.
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:47 PM
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I'd trust a .22 magnum to get you out of a tight spot. Nobody wants to get shot. The noise and blast from a .22 mag is impressive, your wife would scare the crap out of someone if she did ever need to use it for a defensive arm. I'd bet that anyone hit by one would be out of the fight sufficiently enough for her to get away. I've got a Ruger Single Six that I know everybody in my family can use reliably....even my young boy. I'd trust it just fine if we found ourselves in a bad spot and that was our only arm.
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
Absolutely not. The guy may eventually bleed out, but he will retain the capability to do some monumental damage in the meantime.

A brain stem shot is about the only thing that will instantly stop a guy when using a .22WMR. The problem is that you now have to deal with skull penetration.

Are you sure that she is going to be able to get that cranio-ocular shot when she is fearing for her life?

Teach her to shoot .38s out of a steel-framed revolver (not one of the aluminum-framed ones). Something like a 3" S&W Model 60 would probably be an ideal self-defense gun. Fairly compact, and fairly soft-shooting when using .38 Specials in the gun.



Alternatively, you can look at a revolver in .327 Magnum, but it's my understanding that their recoil is comparable to a soft .38.



I just think that any rimfire gun is only good for intimidation purposes. When it comes to getting rounds on target in a high-stress situation, you need something more than a caliber that is only going to work if bullet placement is exactly right.
Or a Ruger
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
Absolutely not. The guy may eventually bleed out, but he will retain the capability to do some monumental damage in the meantime.

A brain stem shot is about the only thing that will instantly stop a guy when using a .22WMR.

What you just typed there is true about any handgun, and even many rifle rounds.

Yes, the chances of dropping an attacker immediately rise as you go up the spectrum to heavier, larger, calibers - but there is no way to stamp an absolute on any of them. To my knowledge, no one has ever, or ever could, state with absolute certainty that a 9mm is XX.x% more likely than a .22 to stop an attacker with 2 shots center mass, and a a .38+P is XX.x% higher than that, and add another XX.x% for a .44 mag etc etc etc....

We all know inhernetly that a bigger, heavier, faster, bullet is more powerful than a smaller, lighter, slower one, but exactly how much more so I doubt anyone could tell.

I like the answer from the poster that suggested a K frame .22 and a K frame .38/357. That is a really good idea if it isn't cost prohibitive and your wife is open to the idea.
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:21 PM
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I am a big fan of the .22 mag round. Penetration is not an issue... it is a mean little round. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to someone who is recoil sensitive.

Like the Gunblast review mentions, people often think of the .22 mag as a souped up .22lr. Not true. Closer to a .22 hornet.
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Old 05-11-2010, 5:33 AM
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Quote:
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(with love and adoration, but seriously, if you can do other everyday tasks like clipping your toenails or chopping vegetables, you can shoot 9mm)
haha, thats awesome
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Old 05-11-2010, 5:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savasyn View Post
While this idea might cost a bit more, it may get her down the right path. How about picking up a 617 .22LR and a used model 64 or 67 .38. Put the same exact grips on both guns so they feel the same in her hands. She could train all day with the 617 to the point here a K frame revolver is very natural. In the event of an HD situation, the M64 would feel the same with the exception of recoil. Chances are that with the adrenalin pumping, she'd not notice.

Of course she should shoot the 64/67 from time to time with low power loads. Do you reload? That's the easy way, but if not, this stuff shoots like powder puffs(and leads the barrel for fun and games later when cleaning...)

Last note, the suggestion of an M64 is just because they are fairly inexpensive compared to most other K frames with the exception of older M&Ps and M10s. With all those, the rear sight is just a channel in the top strap, the sight picture would be different between the M64 and the 67/617. It might be easier to get a hold an M66 even though it's a .357 as you can still shoot .38s. That's starting to get quite pricey though. If we weren't in CA, I'd recommend just buying this or one of these or these. Stupid roster prevents that, though. You'd have to find used ones here in CA to PPT.
thanks! and nice suggestion
but im so broke... 2 S&Ws!!!??? thats gonna cost me, on a GOOD deal, more then a grand i hate being broke haha
i think i would definatly go that rout if i had the money

oh and i know its just aesthetics... but "skinny" looking revolvers...
hehe

Last edited by benbangui; 05-11-2010 at 5:58 AM..
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Old 05-11-2010, 5:53 AM
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and she can shoot a 9mm
im just in a weird spot right now... i have a .22 conv for my 1911, she can shoot that great and is superbly comfortable with it. but she is just still intimidated by a larger caliber, though i know she can shoot it cause she has shot my handguns hundreds of times.

i think the 5.7 is gonna be overall to expensive rout for me to go as well.

and again she CAN shoot bigger guns and very WELL, might i add. i just want her to have something that she can feel as comfortable with as she is with her... purse or whatever... haha
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Old 05-11-2010, 6:06 AM
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i could weld a pistol grip on this... and add crimsons... then she might enjoy more, shooting a larger round

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Old 05-11-2010, 7:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benbangui View Post
and she can shoot a 9mm
im just in a weird spot right now... i have a .22 conv for my 1911, she can shoot that great and is superbly comfortable with it. but she is just still intimidated by a larger caliber, though i know she can shoot it cause she has shot my handguns hundreds of times.

i think the 5.7 is gonna be overall to expensive rout for me to go as well.

and again she CAN shoot bigger guns and very WELL, might i add. i just want her to have something that she can feel as comfortable with as she is with her... purse or whatever... haha
Totally understandable. There is a different between able to and easy to handle. Just keep 5.7 as an option for the future. I know few females pick up a 5.7 for the exact same reason (they aren't in CA so 20rd per mag make it a very good pick).

Whatever you end up getting, good luck and wish she never had to use other than in the range.
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Old 05-11-2010, 8:24 AM
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What about a 17HMR revolver? I don't think anyone would like being shot with one of those little ballistic tips...
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Old 05-11-2010, 8:49 AM
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I think 22mag is a great choice. A bit more punch than the standard 22lr, holds more rounds in a revolver than a similar sized .38spl, controllable, low recoil. Perfect for people who would not be prone to practice with a larger round.
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Old 05-11-2010, 9:14 AM
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I shot an AMT Automag in 22 mag back in the mid 80s and it killed rabbits and coyotes very well. It was loud and the bark is very sharp, probably due to the higher pressure through that little hole. Certainly will put a hurting on a bad guy in a defensive scenario. I think it's better than a 22lr for home defense and it's nipping at the heels of the 5-Seven, only if more bullet development is done to it. I liked to see an auto loader available in CA market, probably won't happen so keep an eye out in the sales ads.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...7/ai_74033120/
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Old 05-11-2010, 9:16 AM
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Food for thought FWIW.

Like said earlier, whatever she chooses is better than the alternative.

Hits with a .22 are better than misses with a .38.

Many many years back I read a study comparing the .22WMR vs. the .22LR, admittedly it was done with a rifle barrel.

For the test two identical rifles were chosen, the only difference was the chambering.

The test started with full length barrel, shot over a chronograph and data was logged for each shot. They shot something like 10 times for an aggregate at each stage of the test.

The barrels were cut at one inch increments, a ten shot string was recorded and averaged. This was repeated until the barrels were cut to the forend of the stocks.

IIRC, the conclusion was that the WMR using a slower powder needed the extra length of the barrel to utilize the powder charge.

When the barrel reached a certain reduced length, the efficiency was dramatically reduced, to the point that it made little difference between the LR and the WMR. The WMR was always faster, but at a certain length, the difference was very small and insignificant.

Therefore, based on cost and availability of ammo, limited pistol selection and muzzle blast and efficiency, if it were me, I'd go with LR in a revolver, especially a snubby.

Tip...

Years back, I bought a tool steel die from an outfit in Sacramento that you inserted a .22LR, ran the tip of the bullet over a file and ended up with a TC solid.

These days, they sell a TC solid bullet, but I still make my own.

This bullet is THE proven hunting shape. Large metplat, hard hitting, mushrooming, penetrating.

I've hunted with it, it's far superior to any other design. Hits like a sledgehammer, mushrooms and drives through whatever it hits - this at standard velocity.

Might want to look into these bullets. Soup up the old .22, give it some spice.
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2010, 9:34 AM
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I'd go the wadcutter or SWC .38 Spl. in 3-4 in. steel revolver route. WC loads in 3-4 in. steel revolvers are pretty darn mild. Avoid the 2 in. snubbies for the recoil sensitive.

You have to assume worse case scenarios: (e.g. huge psycho, drugged up crazy attacker from hell). Sure, the BG may bleed out later, but he/she could still do a world of hurt on you before then. And if the BG has a gun, all he/she needs is enough juice left to squeeze the trigger finger.

No guarantees they will ceast and desist or run away after taking rounds.

There was a case in NoCal some years back where an attacking BG wielding a machete was shot in the eye w/ a JHP .45 ACP by LE, yet he continued to attack and slash away with the machete. Guess he must have been pretty high and/or there wasn't much going on in that side of his brain...
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  #31  
Old 05-11-2010, 10:09 AM
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Not a revolver, but I think this looks like a whole lot of fun. Kel Tec PMR30 with a 30 round magazine in .22 magnum. Too bad we'll never see it in Calif.

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  #32  
Old 05-11-2010, 10:36 AM
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Check out the CZ-83 as another possible option. It doesn't have the sharp recoil like some .380 blowback pistols. Its very very mild to shoot so even recoil sensitive people should handle it fine. The first shot is DA but it can also be readied cocked and locked if she doesn't mind that type of operation.
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  #33  
Old 05-11-2010, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapping Twig View Post
Food for thought FWIW.

Like said earlier, whatever she chooses is better than the alternative.

Hits with a .22 are better than misses with a .38.

Many many years back I read a study comparing the .22WMR vs. the .22LR, admittedly it was done with a rifle barrel.

For the test two identical rifles were chosen, the only difference was the chambering.

The test started with full length barrel, shot over a chronograph and data was logged for each shot. They shot something like 10 times for an aggregate at each stage of the test.

The barrels were cut at one inch increments, a ten shot string was recorded and averaged. This was repeated until the barrels were cut to the forend of the stocks.

IIRC, the conclusion was that the WMR using a slower powder needed the extra length of the barrel to utilize the powder charge.

When the barrel reached a certain reduced length, the efficiency was dramatically reduced, to the point that it made little difference between the LR and the WMR. The WMR was always faster, but at a certain length, the difference was very small and insignificant.

Therefore, based on cost and availability of ammo, limited pistol selection and muzzle blast and efficiency, if it were me, I'd go with LR in a revolver, especially a snubby.
This is a fantastic point as well.

The more I think about it, the more a 4" 617 10 shot .22LR revolver makes sense. You see them used here in the $600 range. I have lots of 1911s, quite a few revolvers, a handful of rifles and shotguns, but that .22 wheel gun would be the last gun I'd give up if I had to start liquidating all my guns.

It is just too good at too many things. Defense for a recoil averser person, practice/training of marksmanship, drawing, etc. It is an awesome gun for camping and hiking, incredible fun at the range,

AND CHEAP TO FEED!

Best of all, unlike many .22 guns on the market - it doesn't feel like a damn toy. It is a solid steel K frame that feels just like any other S&W revolver.
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Old 05-11-2010, 1:25 PM
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It is just too good at too many things. Defense for a recoil averser person, practice/training of marksmanship, drawing, etc. It is an awesome gun for camping and hiking, incredible fun at the range,
Great fun if you shoot Steel Challenge rimfire division, too!
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Old 05-11-2010, 1:42 PM
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My friend is tiny (about 5'4" and maybe 100 pounds soaking wet) and she can handle my Beretta 92FS quite well
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Old 05-11-2010, 1:45 PM
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...
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  #37  
Old 05-11-2010, 1:54 PM
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If 9 is too much for her but you still want something worth a darn in HD, consider the .380 round.

I wouldn't keep a .22 mag or LR for anything other than squirrels or plinking. Unless you get a critical area, i.e. the triangle, heart or spinal cord, that .22 round is not going to stop an attack.

Kinda like a bear raiding a honey comb. It may sting but it ain't gonna stop him from getting what he wants.
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  #38  
Old 05-11-2010, 6:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 1nsanity View Post
...
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  #39  
Old 05-11-2010, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapping Twig View Post
Food for thought FWIW.

Like said earlier, whatever she chooses is better than the alternative.

Hits with a .22 are better than misses with a .38.

Many many years back I read a study comparing the .22WMR vs. the .22LR, admittedly it was done with a rifle barrel.

For the test two identical rifles were chosen, the only difference was the chambering.

The test started with full length barrel, shot over a chronograph and data was logged for each shot. They shot something like 10 times for an aggregate at each stage of the test.

The barrels were cut at one inch increments, a ten shot string was recorded and averaged. This was repeated until the barrels were cut to the forend of the stocks.

IIRC, the conclusion was that the WMR using a slower powder needed the extra length of the barrel to utilize the powder charge.

When the barrel reached a certain reduced length, the efficiency was dramatically reduced, to the point that it made little difference between the LR and the WMR. The WMR was always faster, but at a certain length, the difference was very small and insignificant.

Therefore, based on cost and availability of ammo, limited pistol selection and muzzle blast and efficiency, if it were me, I'd go with LR in a revolver, especially a snubby.

Tip...

Years back, I bought a tool steel die from an outfit in Sacramento that you inserted a .22LR, ran the tip of the bullet over a file and ended up with a TC solid.

These days, they sell a TC solid bullet, but I still make my own.

This bullet is THE proven hunting shape. Large metplat, hard hitting, mushrooming, penetrating.

I've hunted with it, it's far superior to any other design. Hits like a sledgehammer, mushrooms and drives through whatever it hits - this at standard velocity.

Might want to look into these bullets. Soup up the old .22, give it some spice.
alright guys, thanks all for the help!!! but with this info about the .22 mag being very simular to a .22LR out of a pistol, i think i want to move onto the next largest thing, and what a lot of you have been sugjusting...

380... gosh i wish it was easyer to find ammo for that...

ill be starting a new thread so that we wont be changing the topic on this one again thanks everyone!
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  #40  
Old 05-11-2010, 6:13 PM
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i'd go with a solid .38 special like a ruger sp101 and really nothing smaller, but thats just my opinion
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