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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 04-12-2010, 11:26 PM
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Exclamation "Stanislaus County Sheriff Makes U-Turn on Gun Permits!"

Hey everyone. This is my very first post here and I wanted to contribute so I thought this article was worth sharing! I hope this is in the right forum!

http://www.modbee.com/2010/04/12/112...iff-makes.html

What do you guys think!? I'm from Stan county myself so I'm pretty excited!
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  #2  
Old 04-12-2010, 11:32 PM
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What do you guys think!?
That's pretty huge. Loved reading the intro...

People with a clean record who want to carry a gun will have a much better chance at snagging a concealed weapon permit, Sheriff Adam Christianson said Monday, drawing thunderous applause from firearms advocates.

The stunning change in policy comes as Christianson prepares to lay off dozens of deputies because of budget cuts. He has released 300 inmates to comply with new state rules.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:37 PM
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It's amazing what a upcoming election will do. Let's hope he doesn't change his mind after June.

Too bad the sheriff in OC can't have a similar view of things.

Thanks for the post. Nice area you're in up there...my better half is from Hilmar/Turlock.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
A farmer said he often irrigates fields in the early morning. The sheriff brought down the house when he responded, "Straight up; I give all ag (people) a gun permit because I know you guys are carrying a gun anyway."
Now that's just funny...
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:38 PM
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It actually makes me feel like I might have a chance at getting one in my lifetime!

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Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
It's amazing what a upcoming election will do. Let's hope he doesn't change his mind after June.

Too bad the sheriff in OC can't have a similar view of things.

Thanks for the post. Nice area you're in up there...my better half is from Hilmar/Turlock.
I know Hilmar. Land of lifted trucks and cows. =)
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:39 PM
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Excellent!
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  #7  
Old 04-12-2010, 11:40 PM
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Now that's just funny...
Good news.
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Old 04-13-2010, 5:07 AM
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Apply NOW and see if the words have any backing to them. They always say they will but we don't see fruit.
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In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.
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  #9  
Old 04-13-2010, 5:56 AM
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I was at the meeting last night, the Sheriff definitely was pro-CCW and I'll be applying soon.
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Old 04-13-2010, 7:15 AM
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It's interesting how his stance got adjusted right before the election. Better apply before he's re-elected
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Old 04-13-2010, 7:29 AM
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And then we have Sacramento County Sheriff -- No-Issue

"Two dead in midday drive-by shooting on Howe Avenue"

and Alameda County -- Not-if-your-life-depended-on-it-Issue

"Oakland sees 3 shooting deaths in 24-hour span "
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2010, 8:04 AM
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Insane! That guy did a full about face in a couple weeks!!!!
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  #13  
Old 04-13-2010, 8:05 AM
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A suggestion? There is probably now nothing more valuable to the short-term future of CCW in California than to have the 2A people support Christianson in a meaningful way to a landslide victory.

If a contested election turns into a rout because of Christianson adopting what is effectively a "Shall Issue" policy - other sheriffs will pay attention to this and may emulate his actions in this.

Not a bad idea if we could figure out a way to help his office process what is likely to be a greatly increased number of applications both quickly and cheaply (and no, I don't know how to do that).
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Old 04-13-2010, 8:07 AM
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The application is rather intimidating. According to the instructions, they can require up to 16 hours of training, finger prints, a rather intrusive background check, and a psychological exam which can run into some money. I think I'm going to wait and see what happens in the next few months with McDonald and all of the pending law suits that are out there.
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Old 04-13-2010, 8:12 AM
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According to this, Stan county does not require a psych exam. Also, the extent of the background varies from agency to agency. Some may just run your name to make sure you're not wanted or have a history. Others may send someone out to verify where you live and talk to your neighbors.

If the Sheriff is willing to issue, go for it.
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  #16  
Old 04-13-2010, 8:18 AM
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In Stanislaus County, I know of no psych exam (as Doheny said).

But at least up until recently there was an investigator who actually meets with you and any relevant persons to make sure you are who you seem to be and make sure you are on the up-and-up.

The investigator seemed to also have a function for determining the truth of "good cause". Since "good cause" will now be simply that you want to protect yourself the investigation should be shorter, quicker, and cheaper. So it is actually possible that the change in policy is meant at least in part to decrease the costs to the department.
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Old 04-13-2010, 8:34 AM
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Finally a glimmer of hope that things are actually getting done after a lot of hard work and persistence by the Right Folks!

I know it folly to think other Sherriffs will see this as an example of the right thing to do and follow suit, but still, this is Hope and Change we can beleive in.
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Old 04-13-2010, 8:35 AM
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You know I hear about how peopledont want to apply for fear of getting denied, but is it really that bad to be denied once? People make it sound like they won't ever be able to apply for one again.

Last edited by Cal_Guy; 04-13-2010 at 10:50 AM..
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  #19  
Old 04-13-2010, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not-fishing View Post
And then we have Sacramento County Sheriff -- No-Issue

"Two dead in midday drive-by shooting on Howe Avenue"
You beat me to it. Sheriff McGuinness said he would begin issuing more CCWs too, although I guess he didn't actually sign anything. It will be interesting to see how this plays out! Maybe this is indicative of the future of this state. Or maybe it's just a political move before elections. Only time will tell, but I have my fingers crossed.

I can't wait for McDonald et al!
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Old 04-13-2010, 9:18 AM
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Insane! That guy did a full about face in a couple weeks!!!!

It's totally insane. So-called rights completely subject to the whim of bureaucrat dbags, in this case and in general.
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  #21  
Old 04-13-2010, 9:39 AM
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This may not be a whim. Remember that there was just a bunch of local publicity about the selective issuance of CCW licenses. Wouldn't surprise me if the county's attorney looked at the issue and told him that he was going to have legal problems with almost any good cause criteria he chooses and that pushed him into a shall issue mode.

Also, note that I've been told that early in his tenure he was very close to shall issue and that he was told he was going to have problems with that. I don't know just how liberal with the permits he was at the first - but it is possible he is returning to where he wanted to be in the beginning.

Speculating - but then, assigning other motives is speculating as well.
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Old 04-13-2010, 9:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
A suggestion? There is probably now nothing more valuable to the short-term future of CCW in California than to have the 2A people support Christianson in a meaningful way to a landslide victory.

If a contested election turns into a rout because of Christianson adopting what is effectively a "Shall Issue" policy - other sheriffs will pay attention to this and may emulate his actions in this.

Not a bad idea if we could figure out a way to help his office process what is likely to be a greatly increased number of applications both quickly and cheaply (and no, I don't know how to do that).
^^THIS^^

Protests, letters, and phone calls are important tools in our toolbox; but the one thing a politician pays very close attention too is things that get them re-elected. Using the courts to get shall issue is also an important tool; but at the same time we have May Issue and need to leverage that status to its greatest extent. I completely agree that a landslide victory for this sherrif would speak volumes. A landslide victory with the understanding that if he shifts his position on CCW after the election will result in a recall will also speak volumes. If the man is sincere, we need to see to it that he gets elected by a huge margin.
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  #23  
Old 04-13-2010, 9:54 AM
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I would like to see Sheriff Ahern of Alameda County get onboard with this, but it's not likely.

Erik.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:03 AM
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I would like to see Sheriff Ahern of Alameda County get onboard with this, but it's not likely.

Erik.
If Christianson is now elected by a huge margin with clear and effective support from 2A activists, you'll see lots of sheriffs get onboard with this. They like their jobs and if going to "Shall Issue" gets them elected, they'll be far more likely to choose to be "Shall Issue".
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:12 AM
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We should show Christianson our appreciation and send a letter of thanks just to encourage him to stay the course. He was pretty quick to respond to my letter, I think it's only fitting that we respond positively to his pro 2A stance.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
If Christianson is now elected by a huge margin with clear and effective support from 2A activists, you'll see lots of sheriffs get onboard with this. They like their jobs and if going to "Shall Issue" gets them elected, they'll be far more likely to choose to be "Shall Issue".
Good point, I never looked at it this way, and the election to watch is Orange County for sure. The media spin could be double edged on this issue.

Erik.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
If Christianson is now elected by a huge margin with clear and effective support from 2A activists, you'll see lots of sheriffs get onboard with this. They like their jobs and if going to "Shall Issue" gets them elected, they'll be far more likely to choose to be "Shall Issue".
Anyone have more info on the "pledge" that Christianson signed? I'm curious as to what it exactly says.
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:13 AM
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As we've seen with Republicans who signed the no new taxes pledge and reneged, I don't see any "pledge" having any force in law, or otherwise.
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:50 AM
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I'll vote for him. I was kind of iffy about him, since only last week they were talking about the whole Turlock incident with the CoP there telling him not to issue anybody within the city limits, and he had acquiesced to the suggestion.

Maybe he's doing this to get re-elected, but I hope he's doing it because he knows it is the right thing to do. My LEO friends were telling me if I can get a CCW then get one, because they are releasing more inmates than ever, and they are not giving as harsh time as they should be.
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:31 PM
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Okay, I just got off the phone with someone in the know about the pledge that Christianson signed. The pledge in substance says that Christianson will issue a CCW with self defense as a persons good cause statement. However, the matter of good moral character leaves an out for Christianson to deny a CCW. Since good moral character is as subjective as good cause, if a person leaves something out, no matter how small it is, Christianson will regard it as a lie and refuse to issue because of a perceived lack of good moral character. Ultimately, it boils down to how much of your life are you willing to reveal so that he can't use lack of good moral character to not issue a permit to you.

My contact trusts Christianson less than he trusts Jackson, Christianson opponent. He suggested that Christianson signed the pledge immediately so that he could spend the rest of the time stumping and telling how great he is. Apparently, my contact thinks that he is a good politician, but the pledge really isn't worth the paper it's written on.

So there you have it in a nut shell.
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:38 PM
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Unless the paper pledges are signed on is magically imbued with the ability to cut the signer(s) to death if they break them, it's about as worthless as wet toilet paper.
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Old 04-13-2010, 3:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
Wouldn't surprise me if the county's attorney looked at the issue and told him that he was going to have legal problems with almost any good cause criteria he chooses and that pushed him into a shall issue mode. <...>
Speculating - but then, assigning other motives is speculating as well.
I could see the county attorney fearing a lawsuit from a victim attacked by a prematurely released prisoner who is unimpeded due to a reduced Sheriff's force and yet the citizen is unable to obtain a CCW. Lawsuits are great motivators.

And so is conscience, just like a governor putting a moratorium on the death penalty for fear of killing an innocent man, a sheriff might fear the guilt of the murder of a citizen unable to obtain a CCW.
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Old 04-13-2010, 3:42 PM
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I could see the county attorney fearing a lawsuit from a victim attacked by a prematurely released prisoner who is unimpeded due to a reduced Sheriff's force and yet the citizen is unable to obtain a CCW. Lawsuits are great motivators.

And so is conscience, just like a governor putting a moratorium on the death penalty for fear of killing an innocent man, a sheriff might fear the guilt of the murder of a citizen unable to obtain a CCW.
None of that matters - this Sheriff and every other CA Sheriff and CoP has legal immunity from such liability, per the Government Code....

No, LE doesn't have to protect you or your family.

Yes, LE can and will arrest and convict you for trying to be ready to effectively protect yourself and your family (with a gun).


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Last edited by GuyW; 04-13-2010 at 3:44 PM..
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Old 04-13-2010, 3:49 PM
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I wish they would do they same in Sonoma County
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Old 04-13-2010, 3:54 PM
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None of that matters - this Sheriff and every other CA Sheriff and CoP has legal immunity from such liability, per the Government Code....
They don't have immunity from conscience and guilt. Or maybe they do...

I've always had a fundamental problem with the "can't sue the government" thing. Sure seems to go against all that is right and constitutional...
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Old 04-13-2010, 4:15 PM
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None of that matters - this Sheriff and every other CA Sheriff and CoP has legal immunity from such liability, per the Government Code....
.
.
.
True, but if (as I have been told), there is illegal selectivity involved in the issuance of CCW licenses then the department/county can be sued to make them comply with the law and if they lose they get to pay for the lawyer of the one(s) who sued, etc. It's a costly matter even if they are not required to pay damages, etc.

The other thing is that while they aren't going to be legally liable if someone gets killed after being denied a CCW, they may still be held politically liable.
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Old 04-13-2010, 4:20 PM
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I wish they would do they same in Sonoma County
Same wish for Santa Cruz County.

Unfortunately though, "If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride."
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Old 04-13-2010, 4:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
True, but if (as I have been told), there is illegal selectivity involved in the issuance of CCW licenses then the department/county can be sued to make them comply with the law and if they lose they get to pay for the lawyer of the one(s) who sued, etc.
...yes - google Team Billy Jack....

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Old 04-13-2010, 8:51 PM
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The sheriff was on kfiv1360 afternoons live with Dave Diamond today, He stated he was disappointed in the Modesto bees article. He stated that signing the pledge changed nothing, and all it does is reaffirm his stance on ccw.

You can download the podcast here.

The sheriff talks at 48:30

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/182...KFIV-AM&TRACK=
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Old 04-13-2010, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
A farmer said he often irrigates fields in the early morning. The sheriff brought down the house when he responded, "Straight up; I give all ag (people) a gun permit because I know you guys are carrying a gun anyway."
He got something right........
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