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  #1  
Old 03-30-2010, 6:10 PM
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Default Cool "sled" device for a 1911. Will help with getting around Roster

Found this at the OC gunshow this weekend. This would be a perfect single-shot sled device for helping you import an off-roster 1911 on the cheap.

And it even doubles as a bushing wrench!



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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
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Old 03-30-2010, 6:14 PM
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I could be wrong, but I thought that the "single shot" roster exemption only applied to LARGE pistols:

# 12133. [snip]

(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
That's why you are seeing a lot of AK and AR pistols, etc. . .
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Old 03-30-2010, 6:17 PM
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Can you use this type of item to create a single shot for any off roster pistol?

They are local:
http://www.beckhamdesign.com/khxc/index.php
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Old 03-30-2010, 6:21 PM
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The single-shot exemption definitely has a size requirement. This is only one piece of the puzzle.
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Old 03-30-2010, 6:21 PM
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It might need a modified magazine catch; as for the length requirements, some extra long barrel could probably make the measure, or a combination long barrel plus mainspring housing with some protrusion out the rear. The MSH, sled, magazine catch, and barrel could be passed along to others looking to import their off-roster 1911 variants.
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Old 03-30-2010, 6:23 PM
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I believe a member here was working with Bob Serva from Fusion Firearms to create a barrel to meet the minimum length and then could be changed back to 5" or 6" longslide.
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Old 03-30-2010, 6:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
I could be wrong, but I thought that the "single shot" roster exemption only applied to LARGE pistols:

# 12133. [snip]

(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
That's why you are seeing a lot of AK and AR pistols, etc. . .

Yup. A standard full-size 1911 only needs a 7" barrel added to bring it to 10.5" OAL and 6" barrel minimum.

This device takes care of 1 part of the equation and is generally going to be cheaper than modifying a magazine into a single-shot sled. I paid a whopping 8$ at the gun show for it

You would also need a magazine catch that has the button removed. You can get one from brownells for about $20 and just take the button to a grinder.

Sarco has 7" barrels for about $70 last I checked. They're $54.95 according to the current ad.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
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Last edited by CHS; 03-30-2010 at 6:29 PM..
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  #8  
Old 03-30-2010, 6:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergy View Post
I believe a member here was working with Bob Serva from Fusion Firearms to create a barrel to meet the minimum length and then could be changed back to 5" or 6" longslide.
A standard full-size 5" 1911 with a beavertail is 8.75" OAL.

A 7" barrel would bring it to 10.75" OAL.

Even without a beavertail, you should be right at the 10.5" minimum.

Sarco also has 16" barrels that could be cut-down to 8"-10" for smaller commander-sized 1911's. These barrels are so cheap.

Maybe I should get the full set and start renting it out for import purposes
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
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  #9  
Old 03-30-2010, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdsmchs View Post
A standard full-size 5" 1911 with a beavertail is 8.75" OAL.

A 7" barrel would bring it to 10.75" OAL.

Even without a beavertail, you should be right at the 10.5" minimum.

Sarco also has 16" barrels that could be cut-down to 8"-10" for smaller commander-sized 1911's. These barrels are so cheap.

Maybe I should get the full set and start renting it out for import purposes
In the case of the Fusion DIY Kits, you would just need Fusion to rough in the 7" barrel, flush mag release and sled, correct? Would Riflegear do the transfer?
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  #10  
Old 03-30-2010, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Synergy View Post
In the case of the Fusion DIY Kits, you would just need Fusion to rough in the 7" barrel, flush mag release and sled, correct? Would Riflegear do the transfer?
Hrmm.. Not sure about that.

If it's a DIY kit, I'm assuming that it's not going to be 100% legit since it won't be a pistol capable of firing, right? It's just going to be a frame, slide, barrel all mated together.

That's one that the legal eagle types of the Calguns Foundation should comment on.

In the eyes of the ATF, I guess it would certainly be considered a pistol, because it's been taken from a frame to mostly a handgun.

But for the purposes of the roster, if it can't fire, even if it's in a pseudo-single-shot configuration, would it be ok for transfer?

I don't know.

Also, if the frame doesn't have any beavertail installed, it MIGHT not reach the 10.5" OAL. An 8" barrel might be the best option.

But if the CGF says it's ok, then yeah, Riflegear will definitely do the transfer.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
--Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishment"
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  #11  
Old 03-30-2010, 7:14 PM
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I like the way you guys are thinking!!!

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  #12  
Old 03-30-2010, 7:46 PM
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This one caught my attention. Let's see what develops.
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  #13  
Old 03-31-2010, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdsmchs View Post
This device takes care of 1 part of the equation and is generally going to be cheaper than modifying a magazine into a single-shot sled. I paid a whopping 8$ at the gun show for it

You would also need a magazine catch that has the button removed. You can get one from brownells for about $20 and just take the button to a grinder.
What if you remove the lower grip screws and drive a pin crosswise through the frame, and through that device? As long as the pin spans the mag well and extends into the bushings, you should be GTG. Since the "mag" is now fixed, the operation of the mag catch is not relevant.

Heck, just get a couple of bolts with the same thread pitch and use them to replace the grip screws on one side of the frame. Drill corresponding holes in the device, then install it in the mag well, then screw in the bolts. Not pretty, but cheap!

Hmmn, even cheaper: remove all the grip screws. Drill out the device for holes under the bushings, run a cable tie through each hole. Zip each tie up, snip off the excess. Presto, fixed mag on the cheap.

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Last edited by elSquid; 03-31-2010 at 12:57 AM..
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  #14  
Old 03-31-2010, 12:53 AM
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Importing AR Pistol Tech to 1911's Genius.
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  #15  
Old 03-31-2010, 8:21 AM
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Hmmn, even cheaper: remove all the grip screws. Drill out the device for holes under the bushings, run a cable tie through each hole. Zip each tie up, snip off the excess. Presto, fixed mag on the cheap.

-- Michael
Not pretty, but it could work

That's also more work. To replace the mag catch on a 1911 completely takes about 10 seconds. If not less.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
--Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishment"
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Old 03-31-2010, 9:27 AM
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My question about that insert is will it allow a single round to be loaded under the extractor or would you need to jump the extractor over the rim of a round in the chamber should it need to be loaded? I'm just thinking of doing the safe handling demo where you need to chamber and unload the dummy round. Wouldn't want people screwing up their extractors. Also on that same line of thought how would one of those long barrels work with a slide that had been originally designed to shoot a smaller caliber? IE on a 9mm or 38 super? Are their extractors in closer to bore line so that you wouldn't be able to chamber a larger round under them at all?

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Old 03-31-2010, 9:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust View Post
My question about that insert is will it allow a single round to be loaded under the extractor or would you need to jump the extractor over the rim of a round in the chamber should it need to be loaded? I'm just thinking of doing the safe handling demo where you need to chamber and unload the dummy round. Wouldn't want people screwing up their extractors. Also on that same line of thought how would one of those long barrels work with a slide that had been originally designed to shoot a smaller caliber? IE on a 9mm or 38 super? Are their extractors in closer to bore line so that you wouldn't be able to chamber a larger round under them at all?
Would think you could lock slide to rear... insert round under estractor from the top and then close slide and fire...workable...

I really like the way the whole forum bends their collective minds to stuff like this...genius?....Nay...Super Genius!... Collective Super Genius...

overcoming the control of progressives...one gun at a time...
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:04 AM
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Jumping the round with the extractor for the few cycles needed to do the safety demonstration isn't going to kill the extractor. I wouldn't make a habit of it, but the single shot isn't the point for doing all this anyway. I'm assuming that once you've taken legal possession of your gun, you will modify as you desire.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:19 AM
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I have seen old 1911 parts kit that comes with the slide for about 125. You could fit the 7 inch barrel to the parts kit slide and then file the slide rails so they are super loose so it would fit on any frame. Then you just send your slide out to be put on the gun you want and you are good to go. Also the kit comes with one mag so a little eppoxy can turn that into a sled.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:25 AM
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I know there's a how-to thread already, but for this one let's see if these are the proper steps to purchasing a non-rostered 1911:

- Purchase Beckham "sled" device
- Purchase 8" 1911 barrel
- Purcahse mag release button and file until sits flush with frame and must use tool to release

Now the part that needs clarifying. After purchasing the above item, do I need to send these out to have them installed on the gun I wish to purchase before it is delivered to CA or can the transferring FFL install these item prior to DROSing?
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdsmchs View Post
Not pretty, but it could work

That's also more work. To replace the mag catch on a 1911 completely takes about 10 seconds. If not less.
Well, you need to factor in the time on the grinder, plus any time needed to verify fit and function. Plus the cost of a mag catch.

Another inexpensive option could be done with nothing more than the sled and a single screw.

1) remove the left grip
2) insert the sled into the mag well
3) install the screw via the frame window into the sled. Ensure that the head of the screw extends into the window, preventing the magazine from being ejected.
4) re-install the left grip

Did I mention that I'm cheap?

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Old 03-31-2010, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mute View Post
I know there's a how-to thread already, but for this one let's see if these are the proper steps to purchasing a non-rostered 1911:

- Purchase Beckham "sled" device
- Purchase 8" 1911 barrel
- Purcahse mag release button and file until sits flush with frame and must use tool to release

Now the part that needs clarifying. After purchasing the above item, do I need to send these out to have them installed on the gun I wish to purchase before it is delivered to CA or can the transferring FFL install these item prior to DROSing?
You would send those items out as a package to the FFL that will be sending in your off-roster 1911.

He will install those to make the 1911 now roster-exempt, and then send it to your FFL in California where you will do the transfer.

After the 10-day wait and you leave the store with your new gun, you are free to re-install the original components.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:45 AM
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^ Nice!
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdsmchs View Post
You would send those items out as a package to the FFL that will be sending in your off-roster 1911.

He will install those to make the 1911 now roster-exempt, and then send it to your FFL in California where you will do the transfer.

After the 10-day wait and you leave the store with your new gun, you are free to re-install the original components.
In the words of Mr. Burns, "Excellent!"
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
Another inexpensive option could be done with nothing more than the sled and a single screw.

1) remove the left grip
2) insert the sled into the mag well
3) install the screw via the frame window into the sled. Ensure that the head of the screw extends into the window, preventing the magazine from being ejected.
4) re-install the left grip
The only problem that I see with that is that a dealer out of state might be comfortable with changing out the slide/barrel and mag catch. Those are very simple on a 1911 and require virtually no tools.

For the grip screw, you'll have to do some more work that the out of state dealer might not be comfortable with.

But yeah, removing the grip panel and just sinking a screw into the sled so that it prevents the sled from being removed easily would certainly work.

You're still going to have to buy that barrel, cheapskate hehe.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
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You're still going to have to buy that barrel, cheapskate hehe.
Touché!



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Old 03-31-2010, 11:40 AM
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You can barley make it out, but I got a 7" barrel from sarco



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Old 03-31-2010, 11:52 AM
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Does the gun have to be shootable, meaning, if I want a 9mm 1911, that long barrel has to be a 9mm barrel?
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:23 PM
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You can barley make it out, but I got a 7" barrel from sarco
Smokingloon, can you please give some more details?

Is that a Fusion builders kit, or a complete Fusion gun? Was the Sarco a drop-in fit, or did it need to be fitted to the frame/slide?

What kind of nut/bolt did you use to fix the sled in place?
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:58 PM
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Does the gun have to be shootable, meaning, if I want a 9mm 1911, that long barrel has to be a 9mm barrel?
yes.
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Old 03-31-2010, 1:22 PM
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Does the gun have to be shootable, meaning, if I want a 9mm 1911, that long barrel has to be a 9mm barrel?
I don't know if it has to be shootable, just that you can perform the handgun safety demo with it. And there is nothing that says that you can't change the caliber of the fiream after you DROS it.
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Old 03-31-2010, 1:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdsmchs View Post
Smokingloon, can you please give some more details?

Is that a Fusion builders kit, or a complete Fusion gun? Was the Sarco a drop-in fit, or did it need to be fitted to the frame/slide?

What kind of nut/bolt did you use to fix the sled in place?
I originally wanted a kit so that I could assembly it myself. I thought that Fusion could just assemble all the parts without fitting anything. That way I could do all the work myself after i dros it.
I talked to a guy that works on many 1911s locally about my plan and he informed me that it was not likely for them to do this. He said that they would most likely have to do some fitting. I then decided that I would rather have them start what they finish. Little did I know they did the bare minimum.
ie. extractor wasn't even tuned.
extractor protrudes so much that it touches the barrel. Also, this doesn't allow the slide to close all the way.
thumb safety is very difficult to manipulate.
When I contacted the company, they basically told me that it was a kit gun.
If so, why did they charge me $400 for the labor? Lesson learned.


The Sarco barrel was pretty much drop in. Before I sent the barrel over to Fusion, I test fitted it onto my Springfield 1911 and it fit without any modification. When I inspected the barrel after it was installed on the Fusion, I only noticed some stone marks on the barrel lug. So it looks as if it didn't take much work at all to fit the barrel. One thing I did notice is that the Sarco looks like a two piece barrel and it was joined together by brazing. I personally would not want to shoot anything out of that barrel.

I thought of several different ways to get the safety mag to stay in place.
I thought that I could drill a hole in the mag release and screw in a set screw like the prince 50 but that would require me to get another mag release.
I then looked for a grip screw that was long enough to "pinch" the safety mag in place but the threads on the 1911 grips are not very common at all.
So what I did was go to the hardware store and get a really long and fine screw, drill a hole through the safety mag, and ran it all the way through from one end of the grip bushing to the other side.

Last edited by smokingloon; 03-31-2010 at 1:56 PM..
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Old 03-31-2010, 1:55 PM
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I don't know if it has to be shootable, just that you can perform the handgun safety demo with it. And there is nothing that says that you can't change the caliber of the fiream after you DROS it.
Only problem is, a 9mm barrel will work just fine on a .45 slide, but a .45 barrel won't work with a 9mm slide due to the different sized breech faces.

Aftermarket .45 barrels are cheap and plentiful. 9mm, not so much.

So if you're trying to import a 9mm using a .45 barrel, you won't be able to do the safety demo because you won't be able to successfully chamber the dummy round.

Granted, an FFL is allowed to perform the safety demo with a significantly similar gun, so if they've got another 1911 in inventory it might not make a difference.

But I wouldn't count on that ahead of time if you're importing a gun that way.
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Old 03-31-2010, 2:14 PM
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Only problem is, a 9mm barrel will work just fine on a .45 slide, but a .45 barrel won't work with a 9mm slide due to the different sized breech faces.

Aftermarket .45 barrels are cheap and plentiful. 9mm, not so much.
Heh, spoke too soon:
Code:
C45018  1911 Barrel 7" Roto .38
C45014  1911 Barrel 7" Roto .45
C45021  1911 Barrel 7" Roto 9mm
They are from Sarco - http://www.sarcoinc.com/cgm.html
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
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Old 03-31-2010, 7:19 PM
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I don't know if it has to be shootable, just that you can perform the handgun safety demo with it. And there is nothing that says that you can't change the caliber of the fiream after you DROS it.
I wonder if you could get a 1911 marked "Caliber Multi"?

I just might be able to make my dream of a right and left handed pair come true now!

I found this site a few years ago and used to just dream of a pair of titanium left and right hand 1911's.

http://www.milehigharmory.com/
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Old 03-31-2010, 7:22 PM
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I wonder if you could get a 1911 marked "Caliber Multi"?
I've never seen a caliber marking on a 1911 frame. I've only ever seen them marked on the barrels.
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Old 03-31-2010, 8:18 PM
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Has anyone around here transferred a 1911 this way yet? or is this still in the new idea phase?

You guys mentioned it doesn't have to be "shootable" right? So what if I can get a welder to weld part of one 1911 barrel to another? Would that work for the barrel length part?
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:11 PM
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You guys mentioned it doesn't have to be "shootable" right? So what if I can get a welder to weld part of one 1911 barrel to another? Would that work for the barrel length part?
No one said that.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:13 PM
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I asked in form of a question I did not imply it.

So it must be shootable. Welding two old barrels is not an option then.
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Last edited by Colt-45; 03-31-2010 at 10:19 PM..
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:52 PM
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It might need a modified magazine catch
Not a problem...
Remove the grips. Mark the magazine through the grip screw holes.
Remove magazine and drill out the 4 holes.

Obtain some longer grip screws (long enough to go into the magazine).
Yes... it's an oddball thread.

Install the sled, reinstall the grips, voila... fixed single-shot 1911.
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