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  #1  
Old 03-27-2010, 9:30 AM
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Default Can you get AR Pistol lower sent to CA

Hello,
Trying to build a ar pistol. Got the upper. Can you get a stripped lower sent to an FFL in Komiefornia? How about a complete lower w LPK and tube? Would I have to send upper and have the seller attach it? Whats a good dealer in So Kom to transfer it? Getting tired of all this crap we must do for our RIGHTS. Thanks for the help.
Juan
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  #2  
Old 03-27-2010, 9:39 AM
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Where is So Kom?

Also you would need to send the upper and all parts to the seller. You can use the search button and that would help you.

http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=01...78:pzxbzjzh1zk
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  #3  
Old 03-27-2010, 9:46 AM
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Arcadia near Pasadena. Tried search. Ahhhh LOVE it here! Haaaa. Anyone got a job in AZ????!!!
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  #4  
Old 03-27-2010, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by coolname74 View Post
Hello,
Trying to build a ar pistol. Got the upper. Can you get a stripped lower sent to an FFL in Komiefornia?
Yes, but, you could only use it to make a rifle.

AR pistol lowers are not on the approved list, so they can not be transfered to non-exempt persons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolname74 View Post
How about a complete lower w LPK and tube?
Same as above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolname74 View Post
Would I have to send upper and have the seller attach it?
Yes. But, in order to make it CA legal, the seller must also make it into a single-shot pistol. An AR pistol is made into a single-shot pistol by installing a magazine lock and a bob sled/0 round magazine.

After being 4473/DROS'd and the 10 day wait, you can make the single-shot pistol into a semi-auto pistol with a fixed 10 round magazine (done by removing the bob slde/0 round magazine and inserting a 10 round magazine).

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolname74 View Post
Whats a good dealer in So Kom to transfer it?
RifleGear in Costa Mesa.
OC Armory in Laguna Hills.
Bright Spot Pawn in Riverside.
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  #5  
Old 03-27-2010, 2:55 PM
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Check out this pump action pistol!! That's CA legal with a ten-rounder, right?
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  #6  
Old 03-27-2010, 3:23 PM
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AWS Firearms out of Wyoming is a great sourse for RRA pistol lowers complete with LPK and Pistol buffertube. I can tell you they are very helpful.

I bought my lower from Cory and and upper from DSG arms, who then sent it to AWS. He installed the BB, the bobsled I sent him and then put the upper on the lower. Then He sent it to Ammo Brothers in Cerritos for me to DROS.
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Last edited by hoodrat; 03-27-2010 at 3:26 PM.. Reason: spelling
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  #7  
Old 03-27-2010, 3:35 PM
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Yup... as Quiet mentioned, the roster is the problem.
There are two ways to do it.

1 - As mentioned, ship your parts to the seller and have him assemble it, with a bullet button, and a single-shot sled (zero-round magazine).

2 - Intrafamilial transfer. If you have a son/daughter/mother/father/grandmother/grandfather who lives out of state, they can gift a stripped lower to you, provided the lower was originally processed on the 4473 as "other" and not as "long gun".
Intrafamilial transfers are roster-exempt.

However, keep in mind that it would not be legal for your son/daughter/mother/father/grandmother/grandfather to purchase a new stripped lower with the intent of shipping it to you.
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Old 03-27-2010, 3:37 PM
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Originally Posted by UBFRAGD View Post
Check out this pump action pistol!! That's CA legal with a ten-rounder, right?
It's not semiautomatic, so believe it or not, if you have any pre-ban 30 rounders, it's legal with them as long as it does NOT have a bullet button.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #9  
Old 03-27-2010, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by UBFRAGD View Post
Check out this pump action pistol!! That's CA legal with a ten-rounder, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
It's not semiautomatic, so believe it or not, if you have any pre-ban 30 rounders, it's legal with them as long as it does NOT have a bullet button.
Due to it not being on the approved list, it would still need to be made into a single-shot pistol prior to importation into CA and DROS'd as a single-shot pistol.
Since it is not a semi-auto pistol, after it is 4473/DROS'd, any size capacity magazine can legally be used with it and, legally, the magazine lock can also be removed.
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  #10  
Old 03-27-2010, 6:58 PM
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Wow, is this seriously the case? I have preban AR mags ....so I can really buy a AR pistol and run a 30 round preban mag with no bullet button.....after I get it DROS'd as a Single shot hand gun????????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Due to it not being on the approved list, it would still need to be made into a single-shot pistol prior to importation into CA and DROS'd as a single-shot pistol.
Since it is not a semi-auto pistol, after it is 4473/DROS'd, any size capacity magazine can legally be used with it and, legally, the magazine lock can also be removed.
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  #11  
Old 03-27-2010, 7:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodrat View Post
AWS Firearms out of Wyoming is a great sourse for RRA pistol lowers complete with LPK and Pistol buffertube. I can tell you they are very helpful.

I bought my lower from Cory and and upper from DSG arms, who then sent it to AWS. He installed the BB, the bobsled I sent him and then put the upper on the lower. Then He sent it to Ammo Brothers in Cerritos for me to DROS.
Cory, never returned my pms or e-mails. Is he still selling tO CA?
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  #12  
Old 03-27-2010, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by xbimmers View Post
Wow, is this seriously the case? I have preban AR mags ....so I can really buy a AR pistol and run a 30 round preban mag with no bullet button.....after I get it DROS'd as a Single shot hand gun????????????
I'm pretty sure he was referring to the pump action pistol being able to run a 30 round pre-ban mag, not a semi-auto AR pistol.
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  #13  
Old 03-27-2010, 7:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Due to it not being on the approved list, it would still need to be made into a single-shot pistol prior to importation into CA and DROS'd as a single-shot pistol.
Unless it's imported on an intrafamilial transfer or by bequest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #14  
Old 03-27-2010, 7:17 PM
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Originally Posted by xbimmers View Post
Wow, is this seriously the case? I have preban AR mags ....so I can really buy a AR pistol and run a 30 round preban mag with no bullet button.....after I get it DROS'd as a Single shot hand gun????????????
NonononoFelonynonono....

High-caps are only legal in a RAW or other non-fixed magazine weapon.
Non-fixed magazines are only legal in a RAW or a non-centerfire or non-semi-automatic long gun. WRT pistols, they are not even legal on a non-centerfire... only long gun rimfires are exempt from AW laws.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #15  
Old 03-27-2010, 7:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
NonononoFelonynonono....

High-caps are only legal in a RAW or other non-fixed magazine weapon.
Non-fixed magazines are only legal in a RAW or a non-centerfire or non-semi-automatic long gun. WRT pistols, they are not even legal on a non-centerfire... only long gun rimfires are exempt from AW laws.
only semi-automatic pistols have to comply with the AW laws. A pump-action pistol can have a detachable magazine and can be 11+ rounds.
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  #16  
Old 03-27-2010, 7:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
only semi-automatic pistols have to comply with the AW laws. A pump-action pistol can have a detachable magazine and can be 11+ rounds.
Correct.... Note, I said non-semiautomatic

But on re-read, I had enough double and triple negatives that I can not see it not being confusing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #17  
Old 03-27-2010, 7:50 PM
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note, you said "non-semiautomatic long gun", so I assumed you limited that non-semiauto exemption to just long guns.
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  #18  
Old 03-27-2010, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
note, you said "non-semiautomatic long gun", so I assumed you limited that non-semiauto exemption to just long guns.
Ahh... I confused myself.

I originally wrote "non-centerfire, non-semiautomatic"... then added "long guns" (I had originally typed "guns") the line about pistols because rimfire pistols are not exempt from AW, and forgot to add "non-semiautomatic" to the pistol section.


Okay... I think we're completely confused now... so to clear it up:

RAW = Anything goes
Pistol = Semi-automatic ARs must have a fixed magazine and are limited to 10 rounds.
Rifle = Semi-automatic, Centerfire ARs must have a fixed magazine and are limited to 10 rounds.

Non-semiautomatic rifles and pistols may run more than 10 rounds, provided they do not have a fixed magazine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 03-27-2010, 8:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Ahh... I confused myself.

I originally wrote "non-centerfire, non-semiautomatic"... then added "long guns" (I had originally typed "guns") the line about pistols because rimfire pistols are not exempt from AW, and forgot to add "non-semiautomatic" to the pistol section.
gotcha.


Quote:
Okay... I think we're completely confused now... so to clear it up:

RAW = Anything goes
Pistol = Semi-automatic ARs must have a fixed magazine and are limited to 10 rounds.
Rifle = Semi-automatic, Centerfire ARs must have a fixed magazine and are limited to 10 rounds.
looks right to me.

Quote:
Non-semiautomatic rifles and pistols may run more than 10 rounds, provided they do not have a fixed magazine.
correct in that they cna be more than 10-rounds. Incorrect in that "fixed magazine" matters. Fixed magazines are only regulated on semi-automatic pistols and semi-auto centerfire rifles. All other rifle, handgun, and shotgun types can have fixed magazines of any size.
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Old 03-28-2010, 9:35 AM
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Originally Posted by xbimmers View Post
Wow, is this seriously the case? I have preban AR mags ....so I can really buy a AR pistol and run a 30 round preban mag with no bullet button.....after I get it DROS'd as a Single shot hand gun????????????
Only if it's a non-semi-auto pistol.
(which my post you quoted was responding to)
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Old 03-28-2010, 9:55 AM
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Wouldn't be easier to buy a stripped OLL from a local FFL. DROS it as just a "receiver" (FFL ticks the "other" box and fills in "Receiver") and not specifically as a "rifle" or "rifle receiver".
After you take it home, put on all of the lower parts, buffer tube, bullet button, then slap on the pistol upper?
You'll need to keep it as a pistol. If you put a stock on it, it turns into a rifle and you can't convert it back into a pistol.
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by limitdown View Post
Wouldn't be easier to buy a stripped OLL from a local FFL. DROS it as just a "receiver" (FFL ticks the "other" box and fills in "Receiver") and not specifically as a "rifle" or "rifle receiver".
After you take it home, put on all of the lower parts, buffer tube, bullet button, then slap on the pistol upper?
You'll need to keep it as a pistol. If you put a stock on it, it turns into a rifle and you can't convert it back into a pistol.
CA DROS = "handgun" or "long gun"
Federal 4473 = "handgun", "long gun" or "other"

You need to account for both Federal and state laws.

In your scenario, a AR reciever would be 4473'd as an "other" and DROS'd as a "long gun".
It can not be DROS'd as a "handgun"*, because it is not on the approved list and does not meet the requirements for an exemption to the approved list.
It can not be DROS'd as an "other", because CA DROS does not allow that option.
So, since it was DROS'd as a "long gun" and if you make it into a AR pistol, under CA law you have made an unregistered SBR (making a long gun into a handgun).


*Note:
Under some circumstances a stripped reciever can be DROS'd as a "handgun".
Such as...
1. the receiver is a LEO.
2. it's being transfered via PPT.
3. it's an out-of-state intra-familial gift.
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Last edited by Quiet; 03-28-2010 at 10:22 AM..
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Old 03-28-2010, 5:23 PM
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Isn't DPMS Panther specifically named as banned? So, even if the "slide action AR" pistol can have the PG and 30 rounders, it's banned by name? Or does that apply only if the gun is a semi AR?
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Old 03-28-2010, 5:29 PM
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the letter of the law says "specified semiautomatic firearms", so it is defendable to have a non-semiauto listed firearm, or stripped receiver. In addtion, DPMS Panther is on the rifle list, not on the handgun list. So, it may be legal to use a DPMS Panther lower in a pistol build withouth violating the "named list". But in any case, even though it is defendable, for the most part, it isn't recommended that it be done.
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Old 03-29-2010, 2:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
CA DROS = "handgun" or "long gun"
Federal 4473 = "handgun", "long gun" or "other"

You need to account for both Federal and state laws.

In your scenario, a AR reciever would be 4473'd as an "other" and DROS'd as a "long gun".
It can not be DROS'd as a "handgun"*, because it is not on the approved list and does not meet the requirements for an exemption to the approved list.
It can not be DROS'd as an "other", because CA DROS does not allow that option.
So, since it was DROS'd as a "long gun" and if you make it into a AR pistol, under CA law you have made an unregistered SBR (making a long gun into a handgun).


*Note:
Under some circumstances a stripped reciever can be DROS'd as a "handgun".
Such as...
1. the receiver is a LEO.
2. it's being transfered via PPT.
3. it's an out-of-state intra-familial gift.
If I have a virgin AR lower that I made from an 80% billet. Would it be legal for me to build that into a semi-auto pistol?
If I were ever to sell it, I would just need to put on "markings" and would I need to PPT it, or could I sell it to a dealer and that dealer could DROS it to a civilian as a pistol?
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Old 03-29-2010, 4:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limitdown View Post
If I have a virgin AR lower that I made from an 80% billet. Would it be legal for me to build that into a semi-auto pistol?
Yes
Quote:
If I were ever to sell it, I would just need to put on "markings" and would I need to PPT it
Or consignment.
Quote:
or could I sell it to a dealer and that dealer could DROS it to a civilian as a pistol?
Only to a civilian as a single-shot dimensionally compliant roster exempt handgun.
In it's "original" form, dealer stock is still subject to the roster, even used.


It is important to note that it is illegal in California to manufacture an unsafe handgun.
To be 100% legal in building an AR pistol, at the moment the gun becomes functional (upper attached to the lower), it must be in roster-exempt form.
It's stupid, but to be legal, when the upper is attached to the lower, a single-shot sled must be locked into the magwell.

At that point, the gun is manufactured. You then take a tool, remove the sled, and modify the pistol into a semi-automatic configuration with a conventional magazine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 03-29-2010, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by coolname74 View Post
Hello,
Trying to build a ar pistol. Got the upper. Can you get a stripped lower sent to an FFL in Komiefornia? How about a complete lower w LPK and tube? Would I have to send upper and have the seller attach it? Whats a good dealer in So Kom to transfer it? Getting tired of all this crap we must do for our RIGHTS. Thanks for the help.
Juan
I didn't notice anybody mention this, but if you have an upper that is <16" in your possession WITHOUT a pistol lower AND you have any other AR lowers (rifle lowers) you are guilty of constructive possession of an SBR... I know there are other factors (possibly wrong wording) that means this is not the case for you, but you should be aware of that possibility. NOW, if this is your first AR-type gun, and you do NOT have any other AR lowers in your possession, then having an AR upper that is <16" is fine.
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