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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 03-24-2010, 12:40 PM
para38super para38super is offline
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Default Featureless AR 15

Can you guys please show me your featureless AR? What upper and what lower? Can you school me on Featureless. What do I have to add or remove?
I know the basics: No Colapsable stock, not flash hider, pistol grip. Is their anythin else I am missing?
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:47 PM
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Start with the Flow Chart.

Then migrate over to the "Lets see your .223 California Legal Self Loading Rifle!" thread to see some examples.
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Old 03-24-2010, 1:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowracer View Post
Featureless Rifle - (Also known as a "Fully Functional Rifle" or "Full Capacity Rifle") You have removed all evil features, so you can use your legally-owned high-capacity magazines (or drums) and you can drop the mag with a finger press, the way nature and Eugene Stoner intended. A Featureless rifle lets you load a lot more ammunition than fixed-mag rifles. It frees you from that 10 round limit, and there'll be no poking your rifle with the tip of a bullet.

The "Evil" Features

* Pistol Grip.
* Thumbhole Stock.
* Folding or Telescoping Stock.
* Grenade Launcher or Flare Launcher.
* Flash Suppressor.
* Forward Pistol Grip.

The hardest of these to replace is the pistol grip. There are products out there to do this, however, unfortunately I can't think of any offhand....





Collapsible stock's OK as long as it's pinned so it can't adjust:



Upper and lower don't really matter so much as long as the lower is off-list. See the Calguns flowchart for the list of prohibited ones.

Here is a thread which has lots of photos of featureless rifles in it: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=253777
I like the second one. Know the maker?
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Old 03-24-2010, 1:19 PM
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Somehow I see this thread becoming a giant advertisement for Exile Machine....

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Old 03-24-2010, 1:24 PM
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Man those are ugly........

Para38: Sounds like you already know the answer.

A better-looking option: http://www.solartactical.com/product...&categoryId=19
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Old 03-24-2010, 1:30 PM
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Man those are ugly........

Para38: Sounds like you already know the answer.

A better-looking option: http://www.solartactical.com/product...&categoryId=19
I looked into that option, but Im a lefty. I held one and it does not fit well in my hand. They guy said I can just scoot the handle over..but it felt the same. Reason why I dont want one of those. But I agree, they do look better.
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Old 03-24-2010, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by lowracer View Post
Exile Machine LLC makes that one. www.exilemachine.com
That's an ACE AR-UL-E Stock, Inverted, attached to the Exile Machine Hammerhead, + a Rock River Arms Pistol Buffer Tube.
Kaiser Defense CALGUNS.NET Bear/Star lower, RRA Upper.
Thanks! I checked the site, but no price.. how much is it?
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Old 03-24-2010, 1:38 PM
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I've got some pics of the one I built recently. I'll post a couple up after I get home.
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Old 03-24-2010, 1:40 PM
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If we were living in a different state I wouldn't respond this way. If this weapon is to have a role for home defense in CA don't go w an AR. The mods redce its usefullness. There was a post not that long ago from someone who lives in a remote area. He came home and thought someone was inside his house. To the point where he grabbed his AR in the detached garage. He suddenly realized how inadequate the weapon felt with the Monsterman grip in a real situation. Turned out it was nothing other than his dogs. However, at a moment of truth, his CA compliant ar didn't cut it for him. In CA I'd reccomend a keltec, mini-14 or 30, M1A, or that new benelli rifle. Outside CA the AR is a viable choice. IMO its not in CA for self defense. If its just a range gun then fine. Howecer, why not go the route of the 22 LRs that are all tricked out.
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Old 03-24-2010, 1:40 PM
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Or make your own



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheepdog1968 View Post
If we were living in a different state I wouldn't respond this way. If this weapon is to have a role for home defense in CA don't go w an AR. The mods redce its usefullness. There was a post not that long ago from someone who lives in a remote area. He came home and thought someone was inside his house. To the point where he grabbed his AR in the detached garage. He suddenly realized how inadequate the weapon felt with the Monsterman grip in a real situation. Turned out it was nothing other than his dogs. However, at a moment of truth, his CA compliant ar didn't cut it for him. In CA I'd reccomend a keltec, mini-14 or 30, M1A, or that new benelli rifle. Outside CA the AR is a viable choice. IMO its not in CA for self defense. If its just a range gun then fine. Howecer, why not go the route of the 22 LRs that are all tricked out.
Contrary to sheepdog's anecdotal "evidence", a properly configured "featureless" rifle suffers no drop off in usefulness. The above photo isn't the current state of my rifle. It's gotten even better (going to take some new pics in a day or so). One handed operation is simple. I ran a MMG for awhile and never really liked it. So I made my own, to my own specs and it doesn't suffer the same drawbacks as a MMG. Running it in "free state mode" with a normal Pistol Grip while in Nevada, I didn't notice any real improvement in handling or capabilities. I'd much rather have an AR-type rifle than a keltec or mini. M1As are nice, but would be overkill in a HD or CQB scenario. While my primary HD weapon is a .45, backed up by an 870, I would not feel inadequate at all with my featureless rifle in hand.
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Last edited by Fate; 03-24-2010 at 1:50 PM..
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Old 03-24-2010, 2:01 PM
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Yes, in CA I wouldnt be grabing my AR, not even my SU, SKS, or any type of rifle. I'd go for the SG first.
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Old 03-24-2010, 2:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheepdog1968 View Post
If we were living in a different state I wouldn't respond this way. If this weapon is to have a role for home defense in CA don't go w an AR. The mods redce its usefullness. There was a post not that long ago from someone who lives in a remote area. He came home and thought someone was inside his house. To the point where he grabbed his AR in the detached garage. He suddenly realized how inadequate the weapon felt with the Monsterman grip in a real situation.
I have a mix, as I also have a Reg AW since I got into ARs before the Cali ban and have loads of 30rnd mags. So I also have some OLLs (Thanks CalGuns!) for fun which are ALL featureless since I have always had legal large caps. While certainly not as good as a true pistol grip, my monsterman rifles can be worked fine. You just need to be comfortable with them. My weld/hold with them is different, and though I would prefer a true pistol grip with them, I wouldn't somehow have some kind of panic problem using them in defense. You need to spend some time with the rifle. Heck - there are some guys in here competing 3-Gun matches and other shoot meets with featureless rifles with MM's or other grip systems. YMMV.
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Old 03-24-2010, 2:28 PM
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If he feels inadequate with his chosen weapon system, he should find one that'll work better for him. I doubt anyone that's trained and practiced with their featureless would have any issues bringing their weapons to bear. in fact, I'd venture to guess that even though there are more BB builds than featureless by the numbers, the ones showing up in training classes and competition are largely RAWs and featureless.
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Old 03-24-2010, 2:44 PM
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so a regular muzzle brake is fine but a flash suppressor is illegal right?
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Old 03-24-2010, 3:16 PM
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so a regular muzzle brake is fine but a flash suppressor is illegal right?
Yup, also make sure it is not on the DOJ List of FH like the PWS FSC556. For some reason it was deemed a FH, even though it is a Comp/Brake

Here is a picture of my old setup, sold the upper and waiting to get a new one.


Pinned Stock, Solar Tactical Grip Wrap, and Miculek Compensator

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Last edited by Gio; 03-24-2010 at 3:18 PM..
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Old 03-24-2010, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowracer View Post
There are at least 2 things the poster did wrong to complicate his night time patrol.

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaderSpade View Post
In what was a very weird set of events today I learned just how bad our gun laws and featureless builds are...

I made a quick pass through the house and grabbed a flashlight and a featureless AR with a 30 round mag, and headed out to check the shop and outbuildings...
Now try it at night with a flashlight in one hand and your rifle in the other.
Fail. Get a light mounted on your rifle if you're going to use it for HD. Doesn't matter if it's an AR or a shotgun. Trying to ID and then put accurate fire on a target with a handheld flashlight is ridiculous.
Quote:
That d**n Monster man grip is hard to grip when you need to check locks and out buildings. I would have had no problem with a pistol grip I could have wrapped my thumb around. I can tell you it sucks when your rifle is slipping out of your hand as you reach up to check a lock not knowing who might be hiding in your well house.
If you cannot control your rifle one handed, get a sling.
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Old 03-24-2010, 3:35 PM
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Here's mine with the Monster Man Grip. It works extremely well! I was surprised how quickly I got used to the MMG, although the angle of it does feel odd at first. I have no issues with the handling or manual of arms with this grip installed. If you're a little old school like me, you were likely trained to operate the charging handle with the strong hand so nothing changes if you continue to do that. Charging the weapon with the weak hand is the more current way of doing things and wet hands could make that into an issue with the MMG I suppose. It's not a problem in the dry, unless you have girly hands and grip... Ah yes! A sling! Proper, or even the way I do it, use of a sling makes the MMG even easier to use.

The suggestions above to study a bit are right on the mark. When I finally decided to build an AR I definitely wanted to be able to use my standard capacity magazines, therefore featureless is the only way to go in this State for me. Basically, if you just build IAW the flow chart you'll be golden. Many great resources here on CalGuns! I have a muzzle brake on there in the pics but I have since taken it back off and re-installed the thread protector that I started out with. Two reasons for that: 1. With the mid-length gas system on mine and rifle buffer and spring it shoots very soft. 2. Although legal, the muzzle brake could be a issue with an uneducated law enforcement officer. I do almost all my shooting in the N.F. and the rangers up here are not gonna be smart on this stuff, so it's a precautionary measure.
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Ali Younesi, senior advisor to the Iranian President.

Last edited by DougJ; 03-24-2010 at 3:37 PM.. Reason: Added sling comment
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