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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #281  
Old 04-24-2010, 12:33 PM
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If he wasn't a leader in the civil gun rights movement, they never would have gone after him like the criminals they are.

This was an attempt to suppress civil rights by cutting off one of the heads, plain and simple.
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  #282  
Old 04-24-2010, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
The fact remains that, in Ben's case, we had a PD and DA that intentionally withheld evidence that indicated that Ben was 100 miles from the location of the alleged incident, and Ben just received a declaration of factual innocence.
And did you read my earlier posts on that point? I was responding directly to a single poster who seems to have some manner of axe to grind with law enforcement.

Quote:
Not all cops are bad cops, not all cops are good cops... but this incident shows that there was a concerted effort by the department to withhold evidence in order to arrest, charge, and attempt to convict Mr. Cannon.
So you are alleging a criminal conspiracy to violate Mr. Cannon's civil rights on the part of the Sheriff's Department and the District Attorney's office. And subsequent to your post it is alleged by another poster that said criminal conspiracy was directly related to Mr. Cannon's political activism. Your evidence is............

I do not know what the motivations of the alleged victim were. If she suckered the cops then that is going to be a very hard lesson for them to learn.

However and again, I believe based on my limited knowledge of the case and my own experience that the detectives thought they had a good pinch with a solid victim, didn't do their homework and have now had what was a bad case to start with blow up in their asses.

If you can prove an active criminal conspiracy, then please do so. If the evidence supports your assertions I'll back your play 110%. If you can't then I'd appreciate not trying to paint some, most, many or all LEOs as the bad guy.
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  #283  
Old 04-24-2010, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogatPlay View Post
So you are alleging a criminal conspiracy to violate Mr. Cannon's civil rights on the part of the Sheriff's Department and the District Attorney's office. And subsequent to your post it is alleged by another poster that said criminal conspiracy was directly related to Mr. Cannon's political activism. Your evidence is............

I do not know what the motivations of the alleged victim were. If she suckered the cops then that is going to be a very hard lesson for them to learn.

However and again, I believe based on my limited knowledge of the case and my own experience that the detectives thought they had a good pinch with a solid victim, didn't do their homework and have now had what was a bad case to start with blow up in their asses.

If you can prove an active criminal conspiracy, then please do so. If the evidence supports your assertions I'll back your play 110%. If you can't then I'd appreciate not trying to paint some, most, many or all LEOs as the bad guy.
Have you seen the other thread that Ben posted last night?
That seems to be exactly what he is implying.
Obviously, we don't have all of the details, but Ben said that research is being done into the parties involved to verify possible connections to his competitor (which could be Paypal, or could be a competitor from one of his other businesses).
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=294052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #284  
Old 04-24-2010, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SP1200 View Post
There is so much prosecutorial misconduct in Passalacqua's office.
Show them "The CANNON!"
Everytime I check back on this post and read that I LOL.
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  #285  
Old 04-24-2010, 4:36 PM
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But noetic how they hyped things that they knew were mundane? Remember that the next time some schmuck is being vilified in a press release.


Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
That sheds a whole other light on the subject.

Had they found a police siren, I could see the link, and the arrest. Finding a car alarm is too much of a stretch.
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  #286  
Old 04-24-2010, 4:51 PM
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There is a difference between intelligence and education. I have had people with bachelors’ degrees working for me who could not put together a coherent sentence. I will bet you dinner at the restaurant of your choice that of ten randomly selected collage graduates today, less than half could pass the CHP entrance exam I took 40 years ago.

That CHP behind you may be a lot of things, good bad and indifferent, but he’s not stupid.

Other departments very.




Quote:
Originally Posted by darksands View Post
The problem with LEO these days is that a good amount of them are guys that graduated high school, went to the military and came out looking for a job that they were used to or someone out of high school that didn't have the desire to go to college. Law enforcement isn't the first choice of many well educated people and is actually not looked highly upon in some cultures as it isn't prestigious. I'm not saying there aren't well educated people in law enforcement. I have a handful of very close friends that are LEO and that graduated college and have good heads on their shoulders but it is also their stories that they share in which I draw my conclusions. I have personally been through the process recently to become a reserve officer which is the same process to become a full time officer. The candidates that I met do not give me the utmost faith in the enforcement section of the law.

Having said that, I am glad that there are people I know that are thoughtful in their work. I would hope to meet more good, decent, intelligent officers out there than guys with a clean record but have something to prove.
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  #287  
Old 04-24-2010, 5:04 PM
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Some documentation on this please? This has not been done in decades!


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Originally Posted by darksands View Post
Don't take it to the extremes of only and all. Not the case. I know plenty of military personnel that are extremely smart including many family members. But I also know many people in the military that are pretty much guys that want to bust open heads and I know of cases where criminals join the military as a plea agreement. There was even a specific case where a gang member in LA joined the military, got out, became LAPD and was just recently found that he was a gang member, former or current, I don't know.

Point of my statement is that there are MANY, NOT ALL LEO out there are just in it to have power over others and it is understandable that the kind of alpha personality needed to be a LEO is required but the process lets in those that are looking to be controlling over others.
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  #288  
Old 04-24-2010, 5:13 PM
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Ah, yes, PayPal. Yet another boost for the RKBA from Meg Whitman!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Have you seen the other thread that Ben posted last night?
That seems to be exactly what he is implying.
Obviously, we don't have all of the details, but Ben said that research is being done into the parties involved to verify possible connections to his competitor (which could be Paypal, or could be a competitor from one of his other businesses).
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=294052
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  #289  
Old 04-24-2010, 8:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Have you seen the other thread that Ben posted last night?
That seems to be exactly what he is implying.
Obviously, we don't have all of the details, but Ben said that research is being done into the parties involved to verify possible connections to his competitor (which could be Paypal, or could be a competitor from one of his other businesses).
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=294052

Poke a stick under this rock and see what things crawl out into the light.

Congratulations Ben!
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  #290  
Old 04-24-2010, 8:22 PM
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Or better yet, blast the rocks out from the front of their deep dark cave with THE CANNON!
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  #291  
Old 04-24-2010, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Have you seen the other thread that Ben posted last night?
That seems to be exactly what he is implying.
Obviously, we don't have all of the details, but Ben said that research is being done into the parties involved to verify possible connections to his competitor (which could be Paypal, or could be a competitor from one of his other businesses).
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=294052
No, Ben did not say competitor, he said competitors. He never slandered anyone. It may be assumed who it may be, but Ben did not say Paypal.
"We are investigating the backgrounds of the reporting persons for connections with my competitors. "
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  #292  
Old 04-24-2010, 8:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthomas View Post
No, Ben did not say competitor, he said competitors. He never slandered anyone. It may be assumed who it may be, but Ben did not say Paypal.
"We are investigating the backgrounds of the reporting persons for connections with my competitors. "
Exactly. That's why I said what I said.
Many Calgunners are assuming that it is Paypal, but it could be any number of organizations.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #293  
Old 04-25-2010, 11:35 AM
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i didn't know about this until a few minutes ago. what i see is an attempted decapitation of the biggest organized threat the antis have. similar to the decapitation of the black panther party. if the fbi can say the black panther party was "the greatest threat to the internal security of the country" why can't the powers that be say that cgf/cgn/gunpal are the greatest threat to gun control, ie a threat to total state control? i say it was a set up. to give human error even the slightest chance to breath in a case like this is very dangerous. human error, like mistaken identity, is the excuse to be used if they can't destroy a man in one blow. even then they stick to their story and never apologize. it would be like a boa trying to eat your kid, but you catch it and it tells you, "my bad, i thought it was a giant rat" only to try again later.
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  #294  
Old 04-25-2010, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogatPlay View Post
And did you read my earlier posts on that point? I was responding directly to a single poster who seems to have some manner of axe to grind with law enforcement.


So you are alleging a criminal conspiracy to violate Mr. Cannon's civil rights on the part of the Sheriff's Department and the District Attorney's office. And subsequent to your post it is alleged by another poster that said criminal conspiracy was directly related to Mr. Cannon's political activism. Your evidence is............

I do not know what the motivations of the alleged victim were. If she suckered the cops then that is going to be a very hard lesson for them to learn.

However and again, I believe based on my limited knowledge of the case and my own experience that the detectives thought they had a good pinch with a solid victim, didn't do their homework and have now had what was a bad case to start with blow up in their asses.

If you can prove an active criminal conspiracy, then please do so. If the evidence supports your assertions I'll back your play 110%. If you can't then I'd appreciate not trying to paint some, most, many or all LEOs as the bad guy.
You seem like a nice enough guy who served as a LEO honorably. However, some people have anti-LEO feelings, and there isn't much you can do about it. Things lie Mr Cannon's arrest add fuel to the fire that has been burning in CA for a long time. Criticizing those that speak against the actions of LEO's really doesn't help. He has the right to free speech sans libel, as do you. You are coming across as a bully, and then representing yourself as a retired LEO, think for a moment how that influences those viewing the LEO community. If you wish people not to speak ill of police, yell at fellow police officers and ask of them to do better, don't yell at those that are upset, it just inflames the issue more. COC doesn't bode well, even in the courts.

The Detectives didn't do a very thorough investigation, nobody should try to whitewash their poor performance. Under no circumstances should they avoid scrutiny by us "civilians".

I have personally seen actions of Local LEOs that would blow your mind with their lack of legality and lack of morality; however, I know that these are actions of the few, not the majority. What is disappointing, that these actions would have been known to another LEO or supervisor and nothing has been done to stop it or reprimand the LEOs in question. This is why LEOs are getting worse reputations than in generations past.
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  #295  
Old 04-25-2010, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darksands View Post
Don't take it to the extremes of only and all. Not the case. I know plenty of military personnel that are extremely smart including many family members. But I also know many people in the military that are pretty much guys that want to bust open heads and I know of cases where criminals join the military as a plea agreement. There was even a specific case where a gang member in LA joined the military, got out, became LAPD and was just recently found that he was a gang member, former or current, I don't know.

Point of my statement is that there are MANY, NOT ALL LEO out there are just in it to have power over others and it is understandable that the kind of alpha personality needed to be a LEO is required but the process lets in those that are looking to be controlling over others.
I will go ahead and call BS on this statement right here, how much of the rest is BS?
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  #296  
Old 04-25-2010, 4:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
There is a difference between intelligence and education. I have had people with bachelors’ degrees working for me who could not put together a coherent sentence. I will bet you dinner at the restaurant of your choice that of ten randomly selected collage graduates today, less than half could pass the CHP entrance exam I took 40 years ago.

That CHP behind you may be a lot of things, good bad and indifferent, but he’s not stupid.

Other departments very.
LOL.

Sorry, just had to laugh at this one.
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  #297  
Old 04-25-2010, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CavTrooper View Post
I will go ahead and call BS on this statement right here, how much of the rest is BS?
Probably much of it, but with a grain of truth.

Scan through the various online forums and see how many inquiries there are about getting into LE when the economy is in the toilet. Same for military enlistments.

Certainly, as I said before, nothing can be said to apply to everyone in either the military or LE, but along with those who select the career for honorable reasons, there are the bad apples that are able to work their way through "the system" and reach their swearing in ceremony.

It can't be denied that there is corruption "out there". Often times, it stems from the DA's office (a position that I feel should not be an elected position... politics has no place in police work)... witness the Duke LaCrosse team fiasco... and that is just one of the many similar situations that happen around the country, but happened to be of a high enough profile to get the media exposure to raise enough questions and expose the BS.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #298  
Old 04-25-2010, 5:27 PM
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Quote:
I will bet you dinner at the restaurant of your choice that of ten randomly selected collage graduates today, less than half could pass the CHP entrance exam I took 40 years ago.
But how many of them can spell COLLEGE?
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  #299  
Old 04-25-2010, 5:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Have you seen the other thread that Ben posted last night?
Been a busy weekend so, no, not yet.

Quote:
That seems to be exactly what he is implying.
Operative word... implying.

I stood by Mr. Cannon on this forum and others when the case first broke. I still do.

However, if you are going to assume a criminal conspiracy on the part of the detectives and ADA based on what little has been publicly released so far, then I think you are making quite a stretch without fact in evidence.


Quote:
Obviously, we don't have all of the details, but Ben said that research is being done into the parties involved to verify possible connections to his competitor (which could be Paypal, or could be a competitor from one of his other businesses).
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=294052
And when that's done, and all the facts are able to be presented, I will read them with great curiosity and a completely open mind.

In the meantime, I am going to give the detectives and the ADA the same benefit of the doubt I gave Mr. Cannon as to your assertions of a criminal conspiracy on their part. Absent any evidence to prove such a conspiracy.

The alleged victim.... now there is where it could get really interesting.

Quote:
Glock-matic posted...

You seem like a nice enough guy who served as a LEO honorably. However, some people have anti-LEO feelings, and there isn't much you can do about it. Things lie Mr Cannon's arrest add fuel to the fire that has been burning in CA for a long time. Criticizing those that speak against the actions of LEO's really doesn't help. He has the right to free speech sans libel, as do you. You are coming across as a bully, and then representing yourself as a retired LEO, think for a moment how that influences those viewing the LEO community. If you wish people not to speak ill of police, yell at fellow police officers and ask of them to do better, don't yell at those that are upset, it just inflames the issue more. COC doesn't bode well, even in the courts.
Ex-squeeze me???? Bully? Really????? Because I advocate the same treatment of those who are being accussed now, as I did for Mr. Cannon?

Quote:
The Detectives didn't do a very thorough investigation, nobody should try to whitewash their poor performance. Under no circumstances should they avoid scrutiny by us "civilians".
First off... please show me where I advocated whitewashing anything.

Second off... save for the grand jury and a civil action, there really isn't any scrutiny open to "us civilians"... of which I am one too. Have been for a few years now. The system is not set up, in Sonoma County anyway, for citizen review of law enforcement action. We have to rely on agencies such as the Sheriff's Internal Affairs Bureau, the District Attorney, the courts, the Attorney General if need be, and the grand jury.

But we can certainly shine the light on things... once we know that there is something factual to shine a light on.

Quote:
I have personally seen actions of Local LEOs that would blow your mind with their lack of legality and lack of morality; however, I know that these are actions of the few, not the majority. What is disappointing, that these actions would have been known to another LEO or supervisor and nothing has been done to stop it or reprimand the LEOs in question. This is why LEOs are getting worse reputations than in generations past.
And I would submit,given the protections afforded to pretty much all peace officers in California under the Peace Officers Bill of Rights, the public doesn't really know, about 95% of the time, what actions are taken as to discipline and job action. Right or wrong, thats how it is. And I speak, again, from knowing a number of my peers who've lost their careers, and some who've gone to jail, for stuff they've done on the job. The problem is that stuff is like any professions dirty laundry.... and all professions have it.

But they try not to talk about it.
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Last edited by BigDogatPlay; 04-25-2010 at 5:44 PM..
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  #300  
Old 04-25-2010, 5:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogatPlay View Post
And when that's done, and all the facts are able to be presented, I will read them with great curiosity and a completely open mind.

In the meantime, I am going to give the detectives and the ADA the same benefit of the doubt I gave Mr. Cannon as to your assertions of a criminal conspiracy on their part. Absent any evidence to prove such a conspiracy.

The alleged victim.... now there is where it could get really interesting.
Agreed.

If there's been wrongdoing on an official level, those responsible should be prosecuted.
If not, then this falls completely on the accuser.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #301  
Old 04-26-2010, 8:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Rockso View Post
I doubt that they really lied about what was in the car, but the news story probably took it hugely out of context. I'm sure plenty of us have completely legal things in our vehicles that could be spun to make us look like criminals. Imagine if you had rope, duct tape, flashlights (especially those with a strobe function or 'police flashlights' like Maglite, Streamlight, Surefire, etc), pepper spray, HAM radio equipment, and/or firearms in your car. How do you think the newspaper would write that story?
+1 Our sensationalist media will do ANYTHING to gain more viewers--and I mean anything. Witness Gawker paying $5k for a stolen iPhone prototype and now having their reporter being investigated for receipt of stolen property--in his case a felony. All for a story. Bear that in mind as you read the hype--and all media from Rush to Fox to NPR to the HuffPost do it. All of them. They may take different sides, but their goal is always the same--to profit from controversy so they stir it up and embellish when necessary. These media people, all of them, are not committed to their positions as much as they are committed to the money--and I mean that about Rush, Palin, Obama, Fox, HuffPost, NYT, WashPo, and all the rest.
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  #302  
Old 04-27-2010, 12:44 PM
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So, how is the federal law suit going??
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  #303  
Old 04-28-2010, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogatPlay View Post
However, if you are going to assume a criminal conspiracy on the part of the detectives and ADA based on what little has been publicly released so far, then I think you are making quite a stretch without fact in evidence.
My 851.8 pleading contains a Declaration by an Officer of the Court signed under Penalty of Perjury that the detectives knowingly and willfully withheld evidence exonerating me.
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  #304  
Old 04-28-2010, 10:55 AM
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My 851.8 pleading contains a Declaration by an Officer of the Court signed under Penalty of Perjury that the detectives knowingly and willfully withheld evidence exonerating me.
Go get 'em
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  #305  
Old 04-28-2010, 11:10 AM
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^^^^

Most definitely!
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I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?
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  #306  
Old 04-28-2010, 11:13 AM
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My 851.8 pleading contains a Declaration by an Officer of the Court signed under Penalty of Perjury that the detectives knowingly and willfully withheld evidence exonerating me.
Yowza! this one will make history....
.
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  #307  
Old 04-28-2010, 11:30 AM
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I have been following this from the beginning. I have kept most of my opinions to myself. I'm watching some of these comments (Legal assessments) such as the one from bigdogplay and wonder if this discussion will help or hinder Mr. Cannon's case. I imagine the DA and attorneys for the arresting agency are souring everything they can get their hands on to sour any litigation having to do with this case. This post is not a condemnation of anyone or their opinion's, rather a genuine concern for Mr. Cannon and his case. I wish Mr. Cannon the best possible outcome. Thus far, his first win not only vindicated Mr. Cannon, but puts law enforcement on notice of the power the people have when they don't lay down and die.
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  #308  
Old 04-28-2010, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by artherd View Post
My 851.8 pleading contains a Declaration by an Officer of the Court signed under Penalty of Perjury that the detectives knowingly and willfully withheld evidence exonerating me.
Then some detectives need to be filed on with IAB and get fired..... at minimum. "Knowingly and willfully" takes it out of the realm of shoddy police work. There is no place for that kind of conduct in conducting law enforcement investigations. Especially in the Sheriff's Department of the county I live in.

At all.

I am assuming that the citizen complaint process has already been launched and the FBI contacted for the civil rights violations.
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Last edited by BigDogatPlay; 04-28-2010 at 12:17 PM..
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  #309  
Old 04-28-2010, 6:13 PM
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Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
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Originally Posted by johnthomas View Post
I have been following this from the beginning. I have kept most of my opinions to myself. I'm watching some of these comments (Legal assessments) such as the one from bigdogplay and wonder if this discussion will help or hinder Mr. Cannon's case. I imagine the DA and attorneys for the arresting agency are souring everything they can get their hands on to sour any litigation having to do with this case.
Doesn't matter.
Ben has not made any statements that would taint the case.
The comments, speculation, and analysis by others is no different than the comment, speculation, and analysis by radio talk show hosts and Op-Ed people posing as newscasters.
Beyond that, nothing on this forum not posted by Ben is admissible.
Even if I were to post up "Hey, I was talking with Ben last night and he said that when the cops arrested him, monkeys were flying out of his butt!"
That, from the forum, is hearsay... and I don't believe it would be admissible even if I were called into court.

The DA could possibly use statements in this thread to impact public opinion... but I'm sure Ben is smart enough to know when to request a change of venue if there's any chance of a jury being poisoned.
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  #310  
Old 04-28-2010, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CavTrooper View Post
I will go ahead and call BS on this statement right here, how much of the rest is BS?
I do know (within the last three of four years) of one young man who was constantly in trouble, who agreed to join the Marines as an alternative to incarceration. I don't know whether the Marines took him or not. I could name names, but obviously I won't.
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  #311  
Old 05-01-2010, 2:15 AM
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There is so much prosecutorial misconduct in Passalacqua's office.
Show them "The CANNON!"
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Everytime I check back on this post and read that I LOL.
It's even more lol when you call his cell phone. lol.
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At best, many vendors at the show typically see Californians as the drooling kid wearing a crash helmet riding in the back of the short bus- not least that you don't have any gun show money because your retarded steroid-shooting governor can't pay your state income tax refund because they spent it all on the illegal Mexicans who broke into your house while you're away at the gun show. To them, you're just a plain old sappy idiot, and probably a lib'rul who smokes salvia while driving.

Last edited by SP1200; 05-01-2010 at 2:18 AM..
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  #312  
Old 05-05-2010, 1:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BigDogatPlay View Post
Then some detectives need to be filed on with IAB and get fired..... at minimum. "Knowingly and willfully" takes it out of the realm of shoddy police work. There is no place for that kind of conduct in conducting law enforcement investigations. Especially in the Sheriff's Department of the county I live in.

At all.

I am assuming that the citizen complaint process has already been launched and the FBI contacted for the civil rights violations.
Can't comment on that yet. When I can, I expect you will see it everywhere.
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  #313  
Old 05-05-2010, 8:24 AM
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Originally Posted by artherd View Post
Can't comment on that yet. When I can, I expect you will see it everywhere.
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  #314  
Old 05-19-2010, 10:29 AM
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Anyone know if there have been any new updates?
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  #315  
Old 05-19-2010, 10:52 AM
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Anyone know if there have been any new updates?
I'm sure Ben will post when his lawyers say it's good.
I don't think he wants to tilt his hand.
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  #316  
Old 05-19-2010, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by artherd View Post
Can't comment on that yet. When I can, I expect you will see it everywhere.
I hope to see it on the front page of the PD...as horrible as their reporting is, this story still deserves front and center attention.
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