Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Shotgun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Shotgun discussions Trap, Hunting, Defense and more. A place for enthusiasts to discuss the shotgun.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-06-2010, 1:05 PM
coolinsocal's Avatar
coolinsocal coolinsocal is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 91
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Benelli M1 Super 90 ammo help please

I am currently using Federal .00 buck which seems to cycle through this firearm flawlessly. I originally tried several other lighter loads with smaller shot but as anyone who owns one of these knows most ordinance is not hot enough to cycle the action causing jams, FTL's FTF's FTE's and other assorted problems. I wish to find indoor defense loads that will not penetrate three walls over and as many of you realize bird shot is an excellent indoor defense round for just that. What is commercially available with enough ooomph to cycle this shot gun in a bird shot load? Please only reply if you have this or a similar semi auto and have actual experience.
Thanks in advance,

Socal
__________________
Support your local Red and White
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-06-2010, 1:32 PM
buffybuster's Avatar
buffybuster buffybuster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 2,382
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolinsocal View Post
I am currently using Federal .00 buck which seems to cycle through this firearm flawlessly. I originally tried several other lighter loads with smaller shot but as anyone who owns one of these knows most ordinance is not hot enough to cycle the action causing jams, FTL's FTF's FTE's and other assorted problems. I wish to find indoor defense loads that will not penetrate three walls over and as many of you realize bird shot is an excellent indoor defense round for just that. What is commercially available with enough ooomph to cycle this shot gun in a bird shot load? Please only reply if you have this or a similar semi auto and have actual experience.
Thanks in advance,

Socal
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. Birdshot is NOT a good choice for any defense situation. T or BB is the smallest I would even consider, with #4-Buck being much better, to limit over penetration and still give you adequate penetration (where you need it).

For the M1S90, about 1-1/8oz is the absolute minimum for reliable functioning (Walmart bulk ammo generally will not function reliably), though I did have to Fed Hi-Vel (1400fps) Max Dram 7/8oz that actually worked well (haven't seen it in years). Keep in mind, the more tacticool stuff you hang off the shotgun will impact it's reliability, since it is recoil operated.
__________________
Luck favoring the prepared, I'd rather be lucky than good any day of the week.

The best plans do not survive first contact with the enemy.

Si, Yo Hablo Ingles, kind of.

"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt

Last edited by buffybuster; 02-06-2010 at 1:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-06-2010, 2:16 PM
Trapper's Avatar
Trapper Trapper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rocklin
Posts: 1,668
iTrader: 102 / 100%
Default

My M1 Super 90 functions flawlessly with 2 3/4" bird shot. How many rounds have you put through your Benelli? There have been several posts debating various shot sizes for home defense, for me it's #1 buck or larger.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-06-2010, 3:53 PM
psssniper's Avatar
psssniper psssniper is offline
nulla lex prohibet
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Clemente
Posts: 2,676
iTrader: 182 / 100%
Blog Entries: 3
Default

oil son, oil that bolt up, run 'er wet
__________________
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness; I love only that which they defend.
victus exaro somniculosus, somnus exaro ieiunium

Last edited by psssniper; 02-06-2010 at 4:06 PM.. Reason: Benelli M1 & M3 also Beretta 1201FP owner
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-06-2010, 4:28 PM
G60's Avatar
G60 G60 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hanford
Posts: 3,986
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

If it doesn't penetrate walls, it won't stop a human.
__________________
http://twitter.com/ddbaxte

"Any unarmed people are slaves, or are subject to slavery at any given moment." - Dr. Huey P. Newton
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-06-2010, 4:52 PM
Saym14 Saym14 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,749
iTrader: 117 / 100%
Default

there was a real life , sad , story where a guy shot his wife point blank in the face with bs. she lived. many surgeries , but live.

I thought this was supposed to be one of the most reliable shotguns out there. i was thinking of getting one - you guys are talking me into a pump.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-06-2010, 5:08 PM
barrym66's Avatar
barrym66 barrym66 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sunny SD, Kalifornia
Posts: 2,246
iTrader: 61 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffybuster View Post
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. Birdshot is NOT a good choice for any defense situation. T or BB is the smallest I would even consider, with #4-Buck being much better, to limit over penetration and still give you adequate penetration (where you need it).
The last 2 or 3 episodes of the TV show "The Best Defense" on Outdoor Channel has shown penetration capabilities of OO, #4, and birdshot through drywall, furniture, and even a refrigerator (both empty and through multiple 1 gal jugs of water).

Caused me to rethink my home defense loads (my HD gun is an HK model M1S90 as well). I had 00 loaded before, but have birdshot now (3 birdshot shells followed by the balance in #4 buck). It will penetrate two layers (one wall) of drywall at typical inside the home distances but stops at the 2nd wall (with only a slight amount of penetration through the 2nd layer of 1st wall).

Unless your attacker is wearing leather, you are going to cause enough damage to stop him or slow him down enough get a 2nd shot off (or 3 with the Benelli ) with less concern for going through into the next room (or two).

The 00 actually went through 3 sets of walls... far more depth and damage than a 223/5.56 at the same range. #4 buck penetrated through 2 walls. Something to seriously think about.

My M1S90 will reliably cycle Federal multipurpose birdshot (1 1/8 oz #8), at least it did through a 4 day (~400b rds) class.

__________________
Barry



"Environmentalists look at the gun, the car and the jet engine as instruments of Satan, but the mosquito has killed more than all three put together." Jeremy Clarkson, on the green movement

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-06-2010, 5:31 PM
buffybuster's Avatar
buffybuster buffybuster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 2,382
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
My M1 Super 90 functions flawlessly with 2 3/4" bird shot. How many rounds have you put through your Benelli? There have been several posts debating various shot sizes for home defense, for me it's #1 buck or larger.
How old is it? The older models (earlier HK branded) definitely needed heavier loads to function. Benelli did some mods later on with the popularity of the M1S90's in 3-gun for lighter loads.
__________________
Luck favoring the prepared, I'd rather be lucky than good any day of the week.

The best plans do not survive first contact with the enemy.

Si, Yo Hablo Ingles, kind of.

"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-06-2010, 5:41 PM
barrym66's Avatar
barrym66 barrym66 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sunny SD, Kalifornia
Posts: 2,246
iTrader: 61 / 100%
Default

Mine is a very early S/N, with the old style forend... don't have the S/N handy but I know I can't buy a Surefire for it anymore.

I'd heard the same, was worried a bit before taking it to the class, but it handled the Federal #8 fine. I've never tried light/low recoil loads due to the same concerns you mentioned. I have heard of a mod that was available but I can't tell if it's been done to mine by the original owner (I bought it used a year ago).
__________________
Barry



"Environmentalists look at the gun, the car and the jet engine as instruments of Satan, but the mosquito has killed more than all three put together." Jeremy Clarkson, on the green movement

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-06-2010, 9:56 PM
ROCKETW19's Avatar
ROCKETW19 ROCKETW19 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 721
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G60 View Post
If it doesn't penetrate walls, it won't stop a human.
I heard that. I am gonna say I can throw a rock threw a sheet rock wall so I dont know what to say.
I dont use my M1 or M4 for home D. But If I did grabb it its loaded with federal 00buck
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-06-2010, 10:07 PM
barrym66's Avatar
barrym66 barrym66 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sunny SD, Kalifornia
Posts: 2,246
iTrader: 61 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCKETW19 View Post
I heard that. I am gonna say I can throw a rock through a sheet rock wall so I don't know what to say.
I don't use my M1 or M4 for home D. But If I did grab it it's loaded with federal 00 buck
You have kids or other loved ones in your home?

Not arguing, just suggesting you might want to think through a typical HD shooting scenario from all angles (pun intended).
__________________
Barry



"Environmentalists look at the gun, the car and the jet engine as instruments of Satan, but the mosquito has killed more than all three put together." Jeremy Clarkson, on the green movement

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-06-2010, 11:43 PM
5150bronco's Avatar
5150bronco 5150bronco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,507
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCKETW19 View Post
I heard that. I am gonna say I can throw a rock threw a sheet rock wall so I dont know what to say.
I dont use my M1 or M4 for home D. But If I did grabb it its loaded with federal 00buck
+1 on this. read around and watch a video on thread titled "exotic ammo" i think. I believe it is important to know what your ammo can do when using it.

not going to use 3 inch 00 buck to shoot ducks, right?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-07-2010, 12:08 AM
Mstnpete Mstnpete is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Orange County, Kalifornia-the anti-gun state
Posts: 3,909
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Best defensive load on a SGHD weapon is a #4 Buck.

http://www.nebraskapreppersnetwork.c...e-defense.html
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-07-2010, 1:05 AM
bsg bsg is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: san gabriel valley
Posts: 24,711
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

i agree with Mstnpete; #4 Buck.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-07-2010, 8:30 AM
dohboy dohboy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County
Posts: 78
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default HD load

I live in a condo/townhome. I use 2 3/4" Federal #4 buck with 34 pellets (pretty hard to find) filled in the tube, nothing chambered, safety off. I don't use 3" shells since I would fit 1 less round in the tube with 3" and I think 2 3/4" is plenty adequete. On the side saddle I have 00buck and a few slugs handy, just in case engagement moves outside.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-07-2010, 9:36 AM
Saym14 Saym14 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,749
iTrader: 117 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dohboy View Post
I live in a condo/townhome. I use 2 3/4" Federal #4 buck with 34 pellets (pretty hard to find) filled in the tube, nothing chambered, safety off. I don't use 3" shells since I would fit 1 less round in the tube with 3" and I think 2 3/4" is plenty adequete. On the side saddle I have 00buck and a few slugs handy, just in case engagement moves outside.
glad I dont live next to you! just kidding.

many experts say at least use BB or BBB instead of plain old buckshot.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-07-2010, 10:07 AM
coolinsocal's Avatar
coolinsocal coolinsocal is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 91
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Thansk for all the feedback. I will comment on some of your comments.

Yes, this firearm is well oiled however has only about 35 or so rounds through it thus far so perhaps more use will free things up a bit.

Spending more cash on a Sure Cycle may work but seems rediculous when my objective is simply to find the lightest load the gun will cycle then work from there. I would rather spend the cash on ammo.

For anybody to claim THIS or THAT is the best home defense load is reckless as there are far too many considerations to take in based on circumstances of use and way too many other factors. There is absolutely no truth in one load fits all. Sure .OO buck will nearly tear an assailant in half but considering a home defense situation where kids or other family members are possibly in the next room directly behind where your assailant may be it is pretty obvious why you absolutely do not want your rounds penetrating through your intended target and into the next room. I made that perfectly clear in my original post. Out on the street .OO is great but I feel each different load available has it's proper use and limitations. You must consider all of the facts.

Thanks again.
__________________
Support your local Red and White
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-07-2010, 11:15 AM
coolinsocal's Avatar
coolinsocal coolinsocal is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 91
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by compulsivegunbuyer View Post
Go to Walmart and get a few boxes of heavy taget loads. According to the manual, it takes a few hundred rounds of these to properly break the gun in. It should be a little less picky after that.
Thanks compulsive, that I will do asap.
__________________
Support your local Red and White
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-07-2010, 1:05 PM
Mstnpete Mstnpete is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Orange County, Kalifornia-the anti-gun state
Posts: 3,909
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolinsocal View Post
Thansk for all the feedback. I will comment on some of your comments.

Yes, this firearm is well oiled however has only about 35 or so rounds through it thus far so perhaps more use will free things up a bit.

Spending more cash on a Sure Cycle may work but seems rediculous when my objective is simply to find the lightest load the gun will cycle then work from there. I would rather spend the cash on ammo.

For anybody to claim THIS or THAT is the best home defense load is reckless as there are far too many considerations to take in based on circumstances of use and way too many other factors. There is absolutely no truth in one load fits all. Sure .OO buck will nearly tear an assailant in half but considering a home defense situation where kids or other family members are possibly in the next room directly behind where your assailant may be it is pretty obvious why you absolutely do not want your rounds penetrating through your intended target and into the next room. I made that perfectly clear in my original post. Out on the street .OO is great but I feel each different load available has it's proper use and limitations. You must consider all of the facts.

Thanks again.
If you think it is reckless than don't use a shotgun for HD.
PS. My HK-Benelli m1 s90 takes all kinds of loads from hi power to low. Key thing is change all springs and have it tuned.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-07-2010, 4:12 PM
5150bronco's Avatar
5150bronco 5150bronco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,507
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by compulsivegunbuyer View Post
Go to Walmart and get a few boxes of heavy taget loads. According to the manual, it takes a few hundred rounds of these to properly break the gun in. It should be a little less picky after that.
this is just in reference to m1s90?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-07-2010, 4:30 PM
Saym14 Saym14 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,749
iTrader: 117 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mstnpete View Post
If you think it is reckless than don't use a shotgun for HD.
PS. My HK-Benelli m1 s90 takes all kinds of loads from hi power to low. Key thing is change all springs and have it tuned.
why does he need to change the springs if its brand new only 35 shots? will your HK/B shoot the cheap light Walmart loads too?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-07-2010, 4:39 PM
Mstnpete Mstnpete is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Orange County, Kalifornia-the anti-gun state
Posts: 3,909
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
why does he need to change the springs if its brand new only 35 shots? will your HK/B shoot the cheap light Walmart loads too?
If you want to use all sorts of loads than the springs have to be replaced.

Yes, because my HK- Benelli is converted to a Open race shotgun and used for 3 gun competition.
__________________

Last edited by Mstnpete; 02-07-2010 at 4:41 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-07-2010, 4:45 PM
Mstnpete Mstnpete is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Orange County, Kalifornia-the anti-gun state
Posts: 3,909
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default



Here's my Pre-Ban HK-Benelli race shotgun!
__________________

Last edited by Mstnpete; 02-08-2010 at 6:34 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-07-2010, 9:45 PM
5150bronco's Avatar
5150bronco 5150bronco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,507
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by compulsivegunbuyer View Post
It's in my M2 manual, and it's basicly the same gun as the M1.

Mstnpete, that is one bad *** Benelli!
okay. thanks.

lol......that is for sure.....jerk......
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-07-2010, 11:34 PM
randy randy is offline
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Santa Clarita, CA & Winnemucca, NV
Posts: 4,643
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

How old is this gun?

Older Benellis may benefit from changing the shell latch.
__________________
I move slow but I make up for it by shooting poorly.

When I hit the lotto I'm only shooting factory.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-08-2010, 7:21 AM
coolinsocal's Avatar
coolinsocal coolinsocal is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 91
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrym66 View Post
The last 2 or 3 episodes of the TV show "The Best Defense" on Outdoor Channel has shown penetration capabilities of OO, #4, and birdshot through drywall, furniture, and even a refrigerator (both empty and through multiple 1 gal jugs of water).

Caused me to rethink my home defense loads (my HD gun is an HK model M1S90 as well). I had 00 loaded before, but have birdshot now (3 birdshot shells followed by the balance in #4 buck). It will penetrate two layers (one wall) of drywall at typical inside the home distances but stops at the 2nd wall (with only a slight amount of penetration through the 2nd layer of 1st wall).

Unless your attacker is wearing leather, you are going to cause enough damage to stop him or slow him down enough get a 2nd shot off (or 3 with the Benelli ) with less concern for going through into the next room (or two).

The 00 actually went through 3 sets of walls... far more depth and damage than a 223/5.56 at the same range. #4 buck penetrated through 2 walls. Something to seriously think about.

My M1S90 will reliably cycle Federal multipurpose birdshot (1 1/8 oz #8), at least it did through a 4 day (~400b rds) class.
I have to agree with you 100% Barry. Fact based results through actual testing speak louder than somebody simply claiming with no testing that a certain load is best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mstnpete View Post
If you think it is reckless than don't use a shotgun for HD.
PS. My HK-Benelli m1 s90 takes all kinds of loads from hi power to low. Key thing is change all springs and have it tuned.
Using a SG for HD is not reckless, claiming 1 load is BEST for HD definitely is. What testing have you done? What factual results do you have to back up your claim? I suggest as a responsible firearm owner you realize the capabilities of your chosen load for it's desired target in the surroundings it will be used in and the repercussions of using the wrong load.
Having kids in a house constructed of drywall, I would opt for the load that would stop or seriously slow down an assailant in 1-2 shots (after all it is an M1) without going through the drywall risking injury of a loved one. And heaven forbid you miss all together for some odd reason or have over sprayed your intended target with your round heading straight through such a wall with a loved one behind it.
Let's face it home defense requires more knowledge than claiming 1 round fits all. #4 shot may work in certain situations but is not a BEST solution for all situations. I would much rather know with birdshot I stand less of a chance having an unintended target mishap.

Thanks to all who have given responsible, sound, and accurate advice.
__________________
Support your local Red and White
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-08-2010, 7:35 AM
Mstnpete Mstnpete is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Orange County, Kalifornia-the anti-gun state
Posts: 3,909
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

QUOTE: Using a SG for HD is not reckless, claiming 1 load is BEST for HD definitely is. What testing have you done? What factual results do you have to back up your claim?

BEFORE YOU ASK THIS QUESTIONS , DID YOU EVEN READ THE LINK I POSTED?
APPARENTLY ---- NOT! SO READ THE POST AGAIN!

Shotgun Ammo - Choices for Home Defense

Re-post Courtesy of Riverwalker's Stealth Survival

Many people hear about using 00 and 000 buckshot for home defense purposes. Inside the home 00 and 000 buckshot has a bit more ability to penetrate walls than you may realize and much than you should be comfortable with if you have neighbors that live close or other persons in your household, such as children. Likewise, if you are not careful and use shot that is too small it may be too light to penetrate deep enough to stop an attacker. Understanding the proper ammo to use in your shotgun will help you avoid unnecessary problems.



My preference in shotgun ammo for home defense is #4 Buckshot. Here are some comparisons to help you make your own decision about which ammo you should use.

Comparison of Shotgun Ammo

000 Buckshot is .36" in diameter and weighs about 71 grains per pellet. In a 3" shell you have 9 to 10 pellets and in a 2 3/4" shell you usually have 8 pellets. Velocity is around 1325 fps (feet per second) for the 2 3/4" shells and a bit slower for the 3" shells.

00 Buckshot is .33" in diameter and weighs about 60.5 grains each. 3" shells hold approximately 15 pellets and 2 3/4" shells hold around 12 pellets. Velocity is approximately 1250 fps.

#1 Buckshot is .30" in diameter and weighs 40.5 grains each. There are approximately 24 pellets in the 3" shells, and the pellet count varies from 16 to 20 in the 2 3/4" shells. Velocity also varies from 1075 fps for the 3" shells to 1250 fps for the 2 3/4" shells.

#4 Buckshot is .24" in diameter and weighs just a little over 20 grains each. There are approximately 40 pellets in 3" shells and the pellet count varies from 27-34 in 2 3/4" shells. This depends on whether or not the shot is buffered. Velocity speed varies anywhere from 1250 fps to 1325 fps.

#4 Birdshot is .13" in diameter and weighs a mere 3.2 grains each. In a 2 3/4" shell with a 1 5/8 ounce shot charge, there are 221 pellets with a velocity of 1250 fps.

Reference: http://www.wilsonprecision.com/shotinfo.html

Shot Size Pellet Diam Pellet Diam Number Of
AM/STD (Inches) (Millimeter) Pellets/Oz

000 Buck 0.3600 9.1440 6
00 Buck 0.3300 8.3820 8
0 Buck 0.3200 8.1280 9
1 Buck 0.3000 7.6200 11
2 Buck 0.2700 6.8580 15
3 Buck 0.2500 6.3500 19
4 Buck 0.2400 6.0960 21
F 0.2200 5.5880 40
T 0.2000 5.0800 53
BBB 0.1900 4.8260 61
BB 0.1800 4.5720 72
1 0.1600 4.0640 90
2 0.1480 3.7592 103
4 0.1290 3.2766 135
5 0.1200 3.0480 170
6 0.1090 2.7686 225
7.5 0.0940 2.3876 350
8 0.0890 2.2606 410
8.5 0.0850 2.1590 470
9 0.0790 2.0066 585
12 0.0500 1.2700 2300


The velocity is not the most important variable in most cases. Pellet weight and pellet count are actually more important considerations. At 3.2 grains, the #4 birdshot does not weigh as much as a simple playing card. Even at 1250 fps, it lacks the mass necessary to stop an intruder. The sole advantage is in the pellet count. That many pellets will make a large, shallow, nasty wound but the intruder is still liable to survive.

In considering the other loads, you have only 8 or 10 of the 000 Buckshot pellets, but they weigh 71 grains each, that is the same weight as a .32 ACP's FMJ bullet, and it is moving faster than a .32 ACP throws its single bullet. With the combination of weight and velocity, 000 Buckshot will penetrate any drywall and any non-masonry exterior wall with relative ease, and thereby possibly endangering your neighbors. Being only 10 grains lighter, 00 buckshot shares many of the same drawbacks as 000 Buck (low pellet count and high penetration).

With the #1 and #4 Buckshot loads, we cover the range of .22 rimfire bullet weights. The #1 is the same weight as many .22 WMR bullets, and the #4 is just a little lighter than the lightest .22 LR bullets. Both of these buckshot loads are zipping along at speeds near .22 WMR velocities, but with a much bigger payload. That weight and velocity gives you enough penetration to stop intruders and minimizes the effects of wall penetration.

There is also the difference in recoil and your ability to control your shotgun. This can also be of importance to those persons of smaller stature who may be able to handle the recoil more efficiently and with fewer problems. Being able to maintain greater control of your shotgun due to less recoil may allow you to get off a second shot if you somehow miss with the first. Which is a distinct and real possibility in the middle of the night and you are still half asleep. The ability to perhaps get off a second shot can sometimes make a significant difference in the outcome between you and an intruder.

And don’t let anyone tell you that you don't have to aim a shotgun. At distances inside your home, you will probably have less than 30 feet as a maximum range. The shot spread will usually be less than 10" even with an open bore. It is quite easy to miss a man-sized target at that range when you only have 10 to 15 pellets in your pattern. Then you will still have to worry about who or what is on the other side of the wall that your pellets strike, such as children who may be sleeping in another room.

With the lighter weight and higher pellet count of the #1 and #4 Buckshot, you have a lot more pellets in that 10" pattern and more chances to strike a crippling if not fatal blow to an intruder while not having to worry as much about the after effects of over penetration.

Ultimately you will need to make your own choice and decide for yourself which load you prefer to use for home defense. Your skill and abilities with your shotgun, the number of persons in your household, and the proximity of neighbors should all be important factors in making a decision.
__________________

Last edited by Mstnpete; 02-08-2010 at 8:10 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-08-2010, 7:48 AM
Swatguy10_15's Avatar
Swatguy10_15 Swatguy10_15 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 616
iTrader: 55 / 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dohboy View Post
I live in a condo/townhome. I use 2 3/4" Federal #4 buck with 34 pellets (pretty hard to find) filled in the tube, nothing chambered, safety off. I don't use 3" shells since I would fit 1 less round in the tube with 3" and I think 2 3/4" is plenty adequete. On the side saddle I have 00buck and a few slugs handy, just in case engagement moves outside.
If the engagement "moves outside" you put youre weapon on safe and go back INSIDE and call 911. Youve now blatantly crossed the threshold of "home defense" shooting slugs in any kind of urban area outside. You never chase an intruder outside, once theyre out the door the "threat" has stopped and you continuing to chase will no doubt end with you being exposed to all kinds of legal and civil "liabilities".
Back to the post as stated above #4 buck seems to be the best choice. But nothing beats adequate training. If one wants to use a shotgun for HD, before loads are even considered getting the right training to utilize the tool (shotgun) correctly should come foremost.. Buying a nifty new black shotty doesnt come with the ability to use it correctly in a true unexpected in your home firefight. To defend your home and protect the most precious contents, your family training should come first. What youre sending downrange, well thats what calguns is for
__________________
Embrace the suck.

"If anything worthwhile comes of this tragedy, it should be the realization by every citizen that often the only thing that stands between them and losing everything they hold dear... is the man wearing a badge" -Ronald Reagan speaking of the newhall incident in 1970.

Last edited by Swatguy10_15; 02-08-2010 at 7:54 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-08-2010, 8:01 AM
coolinsocal's Avatar
coolinsocal coolinsocal is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 91
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

mstnpete, Yes, I did read the material in the link you originally posted when you posted it. What is very apparent is it would appear there are varying opinions on this.
As Barry mentioned the TV show Best Defense did hands on testing in several HD scenarios with results completely different than what you have posted in which they demonstrated comparitive differences in buck versus birdshot where the birdshot was proven to be far more effective in a HD situation than any other SG load given the many variables. Several others claim the same while I realize several back your claims. By the way they ( Best Defense) also do the same tests with Handgun and Rifle loads.
It is not my intent or nature to argue or go on and on over differing opinions however I still lean towards bird shot until more convincing results change my mind. Your link mentions nothing of testing or results it merely claims that is the way it is. I would rather back tested results seeing myself how the tests were carried out and witnessing the results. The TV show mentioned did just that testing several loads in several HD scenarios shooting through several household items. The results were obvious and conflict completely with what you and your linked info claims.
Thanks for the time you put into your info and concern, I do appreciate that but I feel seeing is believing and reading is just that, reading.
Take Care Pete,
TC
__________________
Support your local Red and White
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-08-2010, 10:09 AM
5150bronco's Avatar
5150bronco 5150bronco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,507
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swatguy10_15 View Post
If the engagement "moves outside" you put youre weapon on safe and go back INSIDE and call 911. Youve now blatantly crossed the threshold of "home defense" shooting slugs in any kind of urban area outside. You never chase an intruder outside, once theyre out the door the "threat" has stopped and you continuing to chase will no doubt end with you being exposed to all kinds of legal and civil "liabilities".
Back to the post as stated above #4 buck seems to be the best choice. But nothing beats adequate training. If one wants to use a shotgun for HD, before loads are even considered getting the right training to utilize the tool (shotgun) correctly should come foremost.. Buying a nifty new black shotty doesnt come with the ability to use it correctly in a true unexpected in your home firefight. To defend your home and protect the most precious contents, your family training should come first. What youre sending downrange, well thats what calguns is for
absolutely true!

thanks pete for the info.

Hope to God nobody reads some of this stuff and ends up lock up.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:03 AM
barrym66's Avatar
barrym66 barrym66 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sunny SD, Kalifornia
Posts: 2,246
iTrader: 61 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150bronco View Post
absolutely true!

thanks pete for the info.

Hope to God nobody reads some of this stuff and ends up lock up.
It's good to discuss and learn, no one should have a closed mind, esp. on such an important topic.

When I decided to get serious about training for SD/HD situations, I went to school(s), read up on the best ammunition, took a good look around my home and made an honest (realistic) assessment of my abilities, equipment, and likely scenarios. Then I put together a plan and I've practiced it dry at home and live (as much as practical) at the range.

Just planning on pulling the shottie out from under the bed, all groggy at 2 AM, and going looking for an intruder is a BAAD idea. And tactically insane.

Part of my plan is doing everything I can to prevent pulling the trigger...it's a last resort. Think about the social, moral, and financial implications involved in even a no-questions "good" defensive shooting.

I am open to changing or revising my plan as my knowledge evolves.

Last thing - for the Rambo's here, consider that all of your online activities and postings will be scrutinized and reviewed - any "If I catch the bastard inside I'll chase him outside with both barrels blazing" posts will be used to hang you - both in criminal and civil court.

Lecture mode off....
__________________
Barry



"Environmentalists look at the gun, the car and the jet engine as instruments of Satan, but the mosquito has killed more than all three put together." Jeremy Clarkson, on the green movement

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:50 AM
coolinsocal's Avatar
coolinsocal coolinsocal is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 91
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Great advice Barry. Once again I agree 100%

Thanks
__________________
Support your local Red and White
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-08-2010, 1:47 PM
5150bronco's Avatar
5150bronco 5150bronco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,507
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrym66 View Post
It's good to discuss and learn, no one should have a closed mind, esp. on such an important topic.

When I decided to get serious about training for SD/HD situations, I went to school(s), read up on the best ammunition, took a good look around my home and made an honest (realistic) assessment of my abilities, equipment, and likely scenarios. Then I put together a plan and I've practiced it dry at home and live (as much as practical) at the range.

Just planning on pulling the shottie out from under the bed, all groggy at 2 AM, and going looking for an intruder is a BAAD idea. And tactically insane.

Part of my plan is doing everything I can to prevent pulling the trigger...it's a last resort. Think about the social, moral, and financial implications involved in even a no-questions "good" defensive shooting.

I am open to changing or revising my plan as my knowledge evolves.

Last thing - for the Rambo's here, consider that all of your online activities and postings will be scrutinized and reviewed - any "If I catch the bastard inside I'll chase him outside with both barrels blazing" posts will be used to hang you - both in criminal and civil court.

Lecture mode off....
I like your thinking and pragmatism! Thanks man. I have been up at early in the morning too......., absolutely last resort...., and if i did what that guys suggested I would be gone.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-08-2010, 8:16 PM
Saym14 Saym14 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,749
iTrader: 117 / 100%
Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swatguy10_15 View Post
If the engagement "moves outside" you put youre weapon on safe and go back INSIDE and call 911. Youve now blatantly crossed the threshold of "home defense" shooting slugs in any kind of urban area outside. You never chase an intruder outside, once theyre out the door the "threat" has stopped and you continuing to chase will no doubt end with you being exposed to all kinds of legal and civil "liabilities".
Back to the post as stated above #4 buck seems to be the best choice. But nothing beats adequate training. If one wants to use a shotgun for HD, before loads are even considered getting the right training to utilize the tool (shotgun) correctly should come foremost.. Buying a nifty new black shotty doesnt come with the ability to use it correctly in a true unexpected in your home firefight. To defend your home and protect the most precious contents, your family training should come first. What youre sending downrange, well thats what calguns is for
never? what if your kid is in the trunk of thier car?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-05-2013, 4:02 AM
TheDoof TheDoof is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolinsocal View Post
I am currently using Federal .00 buck which seems to cycle through this firearm flawlessly. I originally tried several other lighter loads with smaller shot but as anyone who owns one of these knows most ordinance is not hot enough to cycle the action causing jams, FTL's FTF's FTE's and other assorted problems. I wish to find indoor defense loads that will not penetrate three walls over and as many of you realize bird shot is an excellent indoor defense round for just that. What is commercially available with enough ooomph to cycle this shot gun in a bird shot load? Please only reply if you have this or a similar semi auto and have actual experience.
Thanks in advance,

Socal
I know this is an old post, and you've probably figured it out by now, but this may help Googlers of Christmas future. I have some M1 S90 experience with a couple thousand rounds fired (mostly of the birdshot variety), and I can say it is a very finicky weapon. The weapon I've used is as broken in as it can get, and no amount of extra oil will make it more reliable. It has a side-saddle (which I am told can inhibit proper functioning of the inertia system), and a mag extension (7+1) which probably doesn't help the balance. It is beautiful for higher power loads, but for those cheap birdshot rounds everyone likes to practice with, it really is hit or miss. I would love to get the convertible M3 for that reason (and to be able to cycle less-lethal). I have not tried the Sure Cycle upgrade, but would like to give it a whirl in the future.

What I've found is some of the purple Fiocchi Super Crusher rounds work well. I think they were a full ounce of shot, either #7.5 or #8. Also anything that says "Hi Brass." When looking for reliable but cheap ammo, try and wax more towards the higher velocity (high dram loading), heavier loaded shells. The inertia system was not meant for the low recoil rounds ammunition manufacturers like to send to market.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-05-2013, 4:45 AM
The War Wagon's Avatar
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: da' 'BURGH
Posts: 4,869
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Lightbulb

#4 buck - at a MINIMUM - in mine. M1 Super 90


__________________

Sooo
... HOW'D that RINO work out for ya'... AGAIN!
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-05-2013, 9:55 AM
Iskra's Avatar
Iskra Iskra is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 515
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Regardless of your preference for loads, the Benelli M1S90 should cycle whatever you want to shoot.

I use mine (standard stock, limiting plug, etc.) for actual bird hunting, so it eats birdshot all the time without any kinds of failures. #2-4 for ducks, #6-7 for pheasant, #8 for dove, even #7.5 light loads if I happen to break some clays with it. No problems at all. Its 6 or 7 years old and started out with duck loads (most likely #3's) for its first few hundred rounds, no special break-in required. Its never had a load of buck down the pipe.
__________________
I don't shoot because I like guns, I shoot because I hate paper.

There's a mistaken impression that conservatives don't like the environment. We do, we love the environment. We just call it the outdoors and we go there to kill stuff.
-PJ O'Rourke
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-06-2013, 6:04 AM
Lucasberg's Avatar
Lucasberg Lucasberg is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: OC
Posts: 144
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The War Wagon View Post
#4 buck - at a MINIMUM - in mine. M1 Super 90


Is that an 8 shot extension tube? I was thinking of putting one on but the guy at the gun store told me since I had a pistol grip on my M1 super 90 it would be illegal. I looked at the shotgun flow chart but didn't see it.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-06-2013, 6:50 AM
ke6guj's Avatar
ke6guj ke6guj is online now
Moderator
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 909
Posts: 23,045
iTrader: 42 / 100%
Default

the shotgun flowchart deals with the legality of the firearm as it sits there in front of you. 922r issues do not make "the firearm" itself illegal to possess so it is not included in the flowchart.


similar to how the handgun flowchart does not mention the "roster". how the handgun was acquired might have been illegal, but the roster itself does not make the handgun illegal to possess.
__________________
Jack



Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

FrontSight Training Course certificates available $25, PM for details on them and other options.
No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

Last edited by ke6guj; 08-06-2013 at 6:52 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-06-2013, 7:02 AM
Lucasberg's Avatar
Lucasberg Lucasberg is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: OC
Posts: 144
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
the shotgun flowchart deals with the legality of the firearm as it sits there in front of you. 922r issues do not make "the firearm" itself illegal to possess so it is not included in the flowchart.


similar to how the handgun flowchart does not mention the "roster". how the handgun was acquired might have been illegal, but the roster itself does not make the handgun illegal to possess.
What he and the other guys told me was Semi auto pistol grip shotgun was only allowed 6 shots in California , Non pistol grip you could have 8 for 18in barrel or 10 for the 28in barrel. I don't believe it was about the import rules.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:52 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.