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  #1  
Old 01-28-2010, 1:41 PM
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Default Video: Two shot rapid fire w/pump action

Anyone seen or tried this before:


Graham Combat Shotgun Demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul676...ient=mv-google


I haven't tried it, but it looks insanely fast --I can only assume he has tons of practice.

Since the video is only a small clip without any context, I'm not sure what situation the technique is used for. For HD, is there any need for that quick of a second shot? Or is it something that would help in some type of a competition?
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  #2  
Old 01-28-2010, 1:55 PM
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I've emptied my shotgun as fast as possible many times. (That video is pretty fast)

Really sucks when you are bringing the pump forward and catch the empty shell that is coming out.

Of course this is while duck hunting. And I generally can't hit a thing, because I'm flock shooting in a panic; but that's shooting at a small fast moving object between 10 and 30 yards. This is at what, maybe 3-4 yards?
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  #3  
Old 01-28-2010, 3:07 PM
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WOW. Thats somthing ive got to try!
Thanks for posting.
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Old 01-28-2010, 4:30 PM
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That is hella fast but I don't really understand the difference between what he is saying and just shooting as fast as you possibly can. I'm pretty sure its the same thing...
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2010, 4:33 PM
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I'm definitely going to try that next time I go shooting, though I doubt I would be able to be that proficient with even a few hundred shells.

What was he getting at about keeping the gun away from your body, is that the technique he was using to shoot that fast?
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  #6  
Old 01-28-2010, 4:52 PM
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ive fired my winchester 1300 so fast i was trapping empties also went so fast that i could actually pump it before the hammer fell

sometimes i swear i go into "flash" mode turning off the light and get into bed before it gets dark
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  #7  
Old 01-28-2010, 5:16 PM
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That's impressively fast.
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  #8  
Old 01-28-2010, 5:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CmpsdNoMore View Post
I'm definitely going to try that next time I go shooting, though I doubt I would be able to be that proficient with even a few hundred shells.

What was he getting at about keeping the gun away from your body, is that the technique he was using to shoot that fast?
Ya, I didn't understand the part about holding it away from the shoulder either. I posted a question on the video to see if he responds to explain the background of the technique.

In the comments under the video, he explains that when you slide the pump forward, you use that forward motion as the mechanism to have your rear hand pull the trigger. So as you chamber the next shell, you don't necessarily need to pull the trigger per se. You just "pull" the gun forward, and let your trigger finger "hit" the trigger.

Maybe that is why he keeps it off of his shoulder--so that the gun can move forwards?

The second question I have is whether this is a novelty, or a practical technique for defensive shooting, or for competition? For HD, if you aim and hit your target, I don't know that a 0.5 second delay on a second shot will matter greatly. And if you didn't aim properly or didn't hit your target, this technique certainly won't help you hit with a second shot coming that quickly.

Anyway, pretty novel technique, and great video at a minimum.
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  #9  
Old 01-28-2010, 7:24 PM
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Holy smokes thats fast!!!
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  #10  
Old 01-28-2010, 7:30 PM
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I will never get that fast!! That's why I'm buying a Saiga 12!!! I will unload 10 rounds in that amount of time.
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  #11  
Old 01-28-2010, 7:37 PM
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  #12  
Old 01-28-2010, 8:24 PM
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wait, is he slam firing it?
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  #13  
Old 01-28-2010, 10:33 PM
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i like his effort in using the recoil to set the shotgun for second shot. seems similar logic or mechanics as double tap for pistol.

i want to try that out.
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  #14  
Old 01-28-2010, 10:37 PM
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I like this shotgun technique.

Besides, Jessie Abbate is easy on the eyes.
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  #15  
Old 01-28-2010, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPE View Post
So as you chamber the next shell, you don't necessarily need to pull the trigger per se. You just "pull" the gun forward, and let your trigger finger "hit" the trigger.
thats the same principle used when "bump" firing a semi automatic firearms, using your forward grip to pull the gun forward, pulling the trigger INTO your trigger finger, rather than pulling the trigger like normal. I can see how he has managed to get so fast.

Personally, I don't think its THAT great of a thing. If your a professional shooter/instructor, and you got time/money/shells to use, I can understand the effort. But in a real world situation, just getting that pump back as soon as you pull the trigger, and forward again, should be as fast as you will ever need. If you truly need faster, by an autoloader
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  #16  
Old 01-29-2010, 3:35 AM
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I like Jessie's methods too. She's as nice in person as she seems on TV. I met her at the SHOT show and spoke with her for awhile went it wasn't very crowded.

That demo was "hella fast" Cartman..hella fast and yes I think it's a trigger bump technique or a slam fire technique. Winchesters will fire that fast and I couldn't tell if it was an 870 or a 1300. Looked like an 870. Push pull works, not a new technique. Looks like Graham fires while presenting and while moving to the shoulder. Wow some timing. Great demo. but nobody needs 2 shots with the 12 bore boomstick...that's why were using it. One shot per customer.
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  #17  
Old 01-29-2010, 9:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellehood View Post
thats the same principle used when "bump" firing a semi automatic firearms, using your forward grip to pull the gun forward, pulling the trigger INTO your trigger finger, rather than pulling the trigger like normal. I can see how he has managed to get so fast.

Personally, I don't think its THAT great of a thing. If your a professional shooter/instructor, and you got time/money/shells to use, I can understand the effort. But in a real world situation, just getting that pump back as soon as you pull the trigger, and forward again, should be as fast as you will ever need. If you truly need faster, by an autoloader
that is true. noticed that before. she is fast.
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  #18  
Old 01-29-2010, 8:00 PM
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For The Win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
I like this shotgun technique.

Besides, Jessie Abbate is easy on the eyes.
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  #19  
Old 01-29-2010, 8:40 PM
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I like Jessie's vid better!
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  #20  
Old 01-30-2010, 1:02 AM
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I like Jessie better!
fix'd
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  #21  
Old 01-30-2010, 10:16 AM
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jessie's seems to make more sense, but is loading that way conventional?
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  #22  
Old 01-31-2010, 12:07 AM
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dang thats fast
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  #23  
Old 01-31-2010, 12:33 PM
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Well I had the chance to practice the first video today. Here is the offical time I got from 2 shot out of my m500a1. #2,4 was my shotgun racking. The R.O had it on sensitive. Still need more practice, one day I will get there. Got another timed but he haven't sent me the email yet... So I dunno the time on it yet, but this is it:

Quote:
Shot # Elapsed Time Split Time
1 0.71 0.71
2 0. 89 0.18
3 1.17 0.28
4 1.35 0.19


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Old 01-31-2010, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150bronco View Post
jessie's seems to make more sense, but is loading that way conventional?
Once the tube is exhausted, it's faster than reloading the tube.



If you're good
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Old 01-31-2010, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Once the tube is exhausted, it's faster than reloading the tube.



If you're good
i will have to practice at being good. loading from the top than versus the bottom would seem to be harder and faster.
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Old 01-31-2010, 3:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 5150bronco View Post
i will have to practice at being good. loading from the top than versus the bottom would seem to be harder and faster.
Honestly... in a home defense situation, if you need more than the tube will hold, you either need more time at the range, or you're looking at multiple targets, and in the case of multiple targets, if one of the others doesn't shoot you before you're done with your first target, he's either not armed, or he's no longer a threat after seeing his buddy blown away... he's either surrendering or running.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-31-2010, 3:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Honestly... in a home defense situation, if you need more than the tube will hold, you either need more time at the range, or you're looking at multiple targets, and in the case of multiple targets, if one of the others doesn't shoot you before you're done with your first target, he's either not armed, or he's no longer a threat after seeing his buddy blown away... he's either surrendering or running.
good point. I think for me I just like to practice and learn correct methods as a way of getting better and enjoying the shooting time.
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Old 01-31-2010, 3:18 PM
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Some techniques are good for competition such as the one Jessie is demonstrating but horrible for combat. Majority of people will lose fine motor skills immediately when in an actual gun fight so it's better to train gross motor movement techniques.
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Old 01-31-2010, 3:25 PM
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Some techniques are good for competition such as the one Jessie is demonstrating but horrible for combat. Majority of people will lose fine motor skills immediately when in an actual gun fight so it's better to train gross motor movement techniques.
could you give couple examples?
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Old 01-31-2010, 3:32 PM
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could you give couple examples?
When under severe stress, your body will restrict blood flow to your extremities in order to ensure proper oxygen flow to the brain.
Adrenaline kicks in, your heart is racing, your hands are shaking, and you can't think straight because you're in "fight or flight" survival mode.

Neat little tricks and gadgets won't even be in the remotest part of your memory... you're going to point, shoot, and rack until it's empty.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-31-2010, 5:20 PM
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could you give couple examples?
Well Jessie is alternating her grip on those shells as she is throwing them in the chamber. If she were being shot at I doubt she could hold on to them much less transition her grip on the shells to place them into the chamber. It's best to merely use a four finger loading grip on one shell and feed it. It doesn't require anywhere near the amount of fine motor skills. If you have a secondary weapons system don't even bother reloading the shotgun.
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Old 01-31-2010, 5:28 PM
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that's insanely fast...he's got some serious skills!!

Of course now i have to go practice until i get that good......... thanks
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Old 01-31-2010, 5:29 PM
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looks like a good way to get your hand blown off!!
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Last edited by IrishPirate; 01-31-2010 at 5:33 PM..
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  #34  
Old 01-31-2010, 6:05 PM
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I think for "combat", Jessie would be shooting her Glock instead of that shotgun.



This is just an excuse to post another video of her.
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Old 01-31-2010, 6:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
When under severe stress, your body will restrict blood flow to your extremities in order to ensure proper oxygen flow to the brain.
Adrenaline kicks in, your heart is racing, your hands are shaking, and you can't think straight because you're in "fight or flight" survival mode.

Neat little tricks and gadgets won't even be in the remotest part of your memory... you're going to point, shoot, and rack until it's empty.
yes sir. I do want to keep it simple for sure. not going to do any fancy top loading or anything.
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Old 01-31-2010, 8:33 PM
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Tyrist is dead on with his comment. In the **** you need to stick with KISS stuff that you practice and practice and practice. Your brain does not work like nor does you body work like when you are on a range. I guess I do not have an adequate command of the written word to even describe it.

I will not embarrass myself further but simply say, I am lucky to be here after something very dumb on my part occurred in an armed confrontation. It rocked my world and I not only stop competition shooting but stopped shooting on a range other then quarterly quals. I came up with KISS simple methods to carry, load, deploy and end a threat against me. I made it on luck that time, if there is a next time it will be on solid basic skills that I will not screw up when my A double S is on the line.

I loved the video about the loading but it is not somthing I would try. The more stuff you have in you head when "IT" goes down, the more to get in the way of what you need to do........ KISS
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Old 01-31-2010, 8:39 PM
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Tyrist is dead on with his comment. In the **** you need to stick with KISS stuff that you practice and practice and practice. Your brain does not work like nor does you body work like when you are on a range. I guess I do not have an adequate command of the written word to even describe it.
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When SHTF, you revert to your most basic level of training.

That is why it is SO important to seek proper training, because DIY will create bad habits that, even if broken, will return when SHTF.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-31-2010, 9:05 PM
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thank you guys and I do understand.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:28 PM
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All good except the 1st time he tried it he jammed the gun. Then he had to take his eyes off the BG's and jack with the gun.
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Old 02-04-2010, 7:05 PM
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I can shoot my 1300 dare I say that fast. If not as fast as that guy, damn close to it. I used to think the "Speed Pump" on it was a total gimmick but now I think there might be something to it. I don't think I could go through all 8 rounds that fast on target...but I do think that fast.
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