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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-27-2010, 12:06 PM
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Default Claim Jumpers does not support 2A

For most people who are into AK's and/or FALs, you probably know who "gunplumber" is on the FALFiles. For those who do not; his name is T. Mark Graham, owner of Arizona Response Systems. He's a meticulous builder of AK's and FALS. He grew up here in Southern California - before it went socialist.

Here's a link to "gunplumber" post on the FALFiles letter to Robert Ott, Claim Jumpers CEO.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...55#post2809455

CalGunners can show support by NOT patronizing a business that does not support your 2A rights such as Claim Jumpers. That's too bad, my kids love their food.
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  #2  
Old 01-27-2010, 12:10 PM
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Good letter, I wonder if they will respond.
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  #3  
Old 01-27-2010, 12:30 PM
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Well, this news certainly makes dieting easier.
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  #4  
Old 01-27-2010, 12:32 PM
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Just another reason not to go there. I really didn't care for the food anyways, just got MORE than I paid for in portions.
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:35 PM
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well if this gets your panties in a bunch don't go to Joe's crab shack as they also have this sign on the door at all the locations ive been to in Texas.

In fact lots of places have that type of sign on their door in texas
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:35 PM
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Overpriced anyway. I won't be going there anymore, either
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  #7  
Old 01-27-2010, 12:44 PM
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adding Joe's Crab Shack to the "no go" list....
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  #8  
Old 01-27-2010, 12:48 PM
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Going out is fine if you don't mind the waiting list, food servers ignoring you, paying a tip for mediocre service, and paying a premium price for food and drinks. Personally, I don't mind barbecuing and coming up with my own ideas for sides. Oh, and I can drink all the beer I want for a fraction of the cost. Since I have a big screen, I can have dinner and a movie and not put the wear and tear on the car. It's a win-win all the around for me.
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  #9  
Old 01-27-2010, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte- View Post
well if this gets your panties in a bunch don't go to Joe's crab shack as they also have this sign on the door at all the locations ive been to in Texas.

In fact lots of places have that type of sign on their door in texas
Joe's Crab shack...

Where do I begin...

Let's just say if the sign said "FREE FOOD" I wouldn't let my dog take a dump there.

Worst service / food / attitude / place ever. I'd rather eat on the streets of Tijuana.
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  #10  
Old 01-27-2010, 1:06 PM
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I don't know about Arizona but in California those "no firearms" signs have no legal standing (in regards to CCW).

I think if you polled 100 different types of businesses 80 of them would have those signs up if they had thought about it (or had an UOC event take place at their business).

I carry at the Claim Jumpers in Roseville fairly frequently and have never noticed any sign and would ignore it anyways.
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  #11  
Old 01-27-2010, 2:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotgunz View Post
I don't know about Arizona but in California those "no firearms" signs have no legal standing (in regards to CCW).
Can't speak for Arizona but in Texas if this sign is displayed you can not carry legally even with a permit.

Quote:
PROHIBITING HANDGUNS IN A BUSINESS
OR OTHER ENTITY

"PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

"CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."
And yes....its must have the spanish part.

Doing so makes it a crime so these places ussually get boycotted.

Figure most these places do it per legal advice.

If a law abiding CCWer shoots at bad guy in claim jumper and hits another patron they can pass all the blame on the shooter.

Edit: Found Arizona's sign http://www.azliquor.gov/assets/docum...rm_sign_en.pdf If that posted you also can not carry legally.

Last edited by BONECUTTER; 01-27-2010 at 2:08 PM.. Reason: Found AZ info
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2010, 2:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbin Dallas View Post
..... I'd rather eat on the streets of Tijuana.
Where the food's better tasting AND you know everyone's packing!

2A? What stinking 2A?
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  #13  
Old 01-27-2010, 2:15 PM
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its private property if you want to enter you have to play by their rules plan and simple.

I am all for 2a but I am not allowing you in my home packing
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  #14  
Old 01-27-2010, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotgunz View Post
I don't know about Arizona but in California those "no firearms" signs have no legal standing (in regards to CCW).
As noted by the above poster, wouldn't private property laws interfere? You could carry in there, but they would just ask you to leave, and if you didn't you would be trespassing.
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  #15  
Old 01-27-2010, 2:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B.D.Dubloon View Post
As noted by the above poster, wouldn't private property laws interfere? You could carry in there, but they would just ask you to leave, and if you didn't you would be trespassing.
See my post above. If specific signs are posted like in AZ of TX you are breaking the law.
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Old 01-27-2010, 2:29 PM
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Not sure if things are different in Texas but, my NC CCW does not allow me to carry in any establishment that serves alcoholic beverages. Carrying in Joe's Crab Shack or Outback could result in the loss of my license regardless of their policy.
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  #17  
Old 01-27-2010, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
Not sure if things are different in Texas but, my NC CCW does not allow me to carry in any establishment that serves alcoholic beverages. Carrying in Joe's Crab Shack or Outback could result in the loss of my license regardless of their policy.
AZ used to be like that. The only restraunt you used to be able to carry in was IHOP cause they didn't serve alcohol. Pretty sure that changed and why restraunts started putting up those signs.
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2010, 4:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbin Dallas View Post
Joe's Crab shack...

Where do I begin...

Let's just say if the sign said "FREE FOOD" I wouldn't let my dog take a dump there.

Worst service / food / attitude / place ever. I'd rather eat on the streets of Tijuana.
I thought that's how they made the chili?
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  #19  
Old 01-27-2010, 8:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B.D.Dubloon View Post
As noted by the above poster, wouldn't private property laws interfere? You could carry in there, but they would just ask you to leave, and if you didn't you would be trespassing.
Yes, if they asked you to leave and you refused you would be trespassing but there is no crime in carrying there so long as you are not consuming alcohol or violating any other restrictions placed on the ccw by the issuing authority. My question would be (once again) if you are carrying concealed (correctly) how would they know?

And while Texas (and other states) have it written in their laws that properly posted places are off limits California does not have this provision in law.

A California business can put a no firearms warning on every entrance and exit in 2' tall neon letters and it means nothing, regardless of the wording used.
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  #20  
Old 01-27-2010, 9:01 PM
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Thanks for sharing this. I've passed it along to several friends who don't frequent Calguns or FALfiles, and I've posted it on my Facebook, too.

I support Claim Jumper's right to forbid armed patrons. Nevertheless, I am also free to choose to spend my money elsewhere, and I will now do so until and unless they change this policy.
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Old 01-27-2010, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte- View Post
its private property if you want to enter you have to play by their rules plan and simple.

I am all for 2a but I am not allowing you in my home packing
Aren't you just a kindred spirit...
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  #22  
Old 01-27-2010, 9:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte- View Post
its private property if you want to enter you have to play by their rules plan and simple.

I am all for 2a but I am not allowing you in my home packing
Friends of mine do not know if I am packing or not. If you ask me I will always say no Im not packing. Until it has a tactical advantage to let my friends and family know Im packing I will keep that Life or Death information to myself. call me paranoid it doesnt hurt.
Sucks about Claim Jumpers. Im going to miss their double chocolate cake.
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  #23  
Old 01-27-2010, 9:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotgunz View Post
I don't know about Arizona but in California those "no firearms" signs have no legal standing (in regards to CCW).
They have a lot of legal standing in AZ. To the extent that one could be arrested for trespassing if they refuse to remove themselves or their firearms from the premises.


ETA: For those who are interested, you might want to take a look at http://www.asrpa.com and see how we deal with such establishments. It also lists some national chains that post their properties.

When you get the webpage up, go down the menu on the left side and click on "CCW cafe".
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Last edited by dustoff31; 01-27-2010 at 9:56 PM..
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  #24  
Old 01-28-2010, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Wang View Post
For most people who are into AK's and/or FALs, you probably know who "gunplumber" is on the FALFiles. For those who do not; his name is T. Mark Graham, owner of Arizona Response Systems. He's a meticulous builder of AK's and FALS. He grew up here in Southern California - before it went socialist.

Here's a link to "gunplumber" post on the FALFiles letter to Robert Ott, Claim Jumpers CEO.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...55#post2809455

CalGunners can show support by NOT patronizing a business that does not support your 2A rights such as Claim Jumpers. That's too bad, my kids love their food.
Thanks, just another on a long list.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:14 AM
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Well-written letter!
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Well, glad you got the kit anyways, I'm sure I'll fondle it a little in the near future..... oh God, that's going to be in somebody's signature....:D
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  #26  
Old 01-28-2010, 6:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustoff31 View Post
ETA: For those who are interested, you might want to take a look at http://www.asrpa.com and see how we deal with such establishments. It also lists some national chains that post their properties. When you get the webpage up, go down the menu on the left side and click on "CCW cafe".
I applaud what you guys have done at ASRPA.

I'm sad to see one of my (as well as my kids) favorite restaurant made it onto that list. Too bad for BJ's. I WILL NOT patronize any business nor support anyone who doesn't support my 2A rights. It's still my money - isn't it?
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Old 01-28-2010, 6:42 AM
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Great list to have. Even though I don't currently have a CCW I will not spend my $$ in any establishment that is not 2A friendly.
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Old 01-28-2010, 9:20 AM
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claim jumpers has disgusting tasting food anyways. HUGE portions, but good lord the food tastes like crap.
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Old 01-28-2010, 9:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokestudent12 View Post
claim jumpers has disgusting tasting food anyways. HUGE portions, but good lord the food tastes like crap.
Eating in the school cafeteria has ruined your sense of taste apparently.

LOL.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:23 AM
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Spreading the word
http://transsylvaniaphoenix.blogspot...pport-2nd.html
853 reads since yesterday
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:25 AM
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Reposted here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-.../2439281/posts
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  #32  
Old 01-28-2010, 10:26 AM
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How do they jump claims without guns?
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:37 AM
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Just curious, does AZ restrict carrying in establishments that serve alcohol?
I recall not being able to wear my gun in to restaurants and bars when I was there for the NRA Convention

I noted that the ordinance said the sign had to be posted by the liquor license, does Claim Jumpers serve alcohol?
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:41 AM
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Yes, they serve beer as well as mixed drinks (at least the Roseville location does).
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotgunz View Post
Yes, they serve beer as well as mixed drinks (at least the Roseville location does).
So are they then required to not allow firearms by law?
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:50 AM
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I am not that familiar with Arizona law to say.. I believe they can restrict all regardless of weather they serve alcohol or not based on how the laws are written there.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:53 AM
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I think they can restrict regardless but I think they are required to restrict if they serve alcohol.
At least that is what we were told in Phoenix last year.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I think they can restrict regardless but I think they are required to restrict if they serve alcohol.
At least that is what we were told in Phoenix last year.
I may be way off - this could be TX? - but it may also involve a certain percentage of revenue from alcohol sales as being a trigger, and/or staying out of primary alcohol-serving areas (i.e, bar section) of restaurant.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:09 AM
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I found this:
http://arizonaccwpermit.com/2009/07/...vernor-brewer/




In a remarkable move forward for AZ CCW permit holders, on July 13th, 2009, Governor Jan Brewer signed into law Senate Bill 1113 which permits limited concealed carry in restaurants in Arizona. This made Arizona the 41st state to pass such legislation. The new law takes effect on September 30, 2009.

The bill allows holders of an Arizona CCW permit to carry a concealed weapon in a restaurant or bar that serves alcohol for consumption on premises under the following conditions:

* The person carrying a firearm must be in possession of a valid AZ CCW permit and government issued photo id.
* The firearm must be concealed.
* The restaurant or bar must not have posted a sign at the entrance to the establishment that clearly prohibits the possession of a weapon on the premises.
* The posted signs must be in compliance with the format specified by law.
* The permit holder must NOT consume alcohol while on the restaurant or bar premises.
* The restaurant or bar owner will not be held responsible for any damages associated with any property damage, injury or death that might occur as a result of the actions of any person carrying a firearm into the restaurant unless the restaurant owner is grossly negligent or acts willfully or maliciously with intent to harm.
* The law does not apply to any person temporarily entering the restaurant or bar to either seek emergency aid or to determine whether or not a sign prohibiting weapons has been posted.
* Violation of the law is a Class 3 misdemeanor. The penalty for a Class 3 misdemeanor can include up to 30 days in jail and a fine of up to $500.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:10 AM
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Several states have 51% laws.
IIRC VA requires open carry if the establishment serves alcohol and prohibits open and concealed if they make over 51% of their revenue from alcohol.

At least Texas standardized their 'No guns' sign into a gigantic monstrosity of an eyesore so I'm sure there are a few businesses that do not post it even if they'd like to.
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