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  #1  
Old 11-15-2016, 8:32 AM
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Default Thumbprint required on DELIVERED only, not pending DROS

Anyone on the webinar? DOJ field rep said we need thumbprint on the delivered only, not pending. But both are OK.

I was under the impression it was the opposite?
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Old 11-15-2016, 8:38 AM
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Hoping they are confused. I was told on the DROS and not on the release.
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Old 11-15-2016, 8:49 AM
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According to them management decided it is now only required on delivered.
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Old 11-15-2016, 9:03 AM
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Swell, hopefully they will be sending some correspondence saying as much.
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Old 11-15-2016, 9:16 AM
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Originally I heard delivered, then I heard on the started, at the new dealer webinar last week I could of swore they said it doesn't matter as long as its on one of them.

At the end on the day I have always got it on both and have no plans on stopping that practice.
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Old 11-15-2016, 9:41 AM
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They were going to check again with management and send out a clarification. Here is the q & A feed I was able to copy

Audience Question
Q: Will their be a webinar on this at a later date?
A: Hi Jamie, this webinar will be offered again this thursday the 17th.

Audience Question
Q: Will their be a webinar on this at a later date?
A: I am pushing for a legislative update Webinar. We will notify you around the first of the new year.

Field Representative (to All - Entire Audience):
8:07 AM: Good morning. I'm Field Representative Sherry Carter. I will be assisting Mike with written questions. If I can't get through all of them during the training, you may contact me through our email address at tics@doj.ca.gov.

Audience Question
Q: Will we cover any AW issues that will arise after Jan 01, 2017?
A: Not at this time.

Audience Question
Q: on the safety affidavit if the sales person and instructor are one and the same do they still sign in both places?
A: Hi Anothony, they have to fullycomplete the form. So even if they are the same person they have to sign both places

Audience Question
Q: Sorry, meant will there be a webinar on the AW laws at a later date?
A: We don't have anything scheduled at this time. I assume we will have additional information regarding new laws on our website and through an Information Bulletin.

Q: : Chance you can send the bulletin out early so we can be prepared??

Audience Question
Q: Chance you can send it out early so we can be prepared??
A: We hope to have it our as soon as possible.

Q: Why is there not a dropdown box for this instead?

Audience Question
Q: Is the thumbprint required on the Delivered DROS or if you have it on the initial pending DROS is that enough?
A: The thumbprint should be on the delivered DROS. If you're putting it on both the pending and delivered, your okay.

Q: Why does it have to be on the delivered dros?

Audience Question
Q: What if you forget to enter the FSD info?
A: if you forget to enter the FSD info you can write it into the comment field after you print the DROS out. Remeber to write it into the pending and the delivered to be safe.

Q: First we've heard of the TP on delivered DROS

Audience Question
Q: could we include the lock paper work with three dros paperwork
A: yes, you can include lock paperwork with the DROS. just like you would attach a reciept if the individual purchased one.

Q: Is there a written reference to the TP on delivered DROS in the Law somewhere we can reference

Audience Question
Q: Do we need a thumb print on both DROS copies I was told we did not
A: Delivered only

Q: So a tp is not needed at initial signing??? Are you sure?

Audience Question
Q: Does the DOJ field reps have a preference as to what dealers should do on undetermined?
A: No. The dealer determines whether they want to release the firearm. DROS documentation should be kept with your canceled, denial, 30 day rejection paperwork.

Audience Question
Q: If a customer is exempt from the FSC, for example Valid hunting license or honorably retired...what do I need to put in the comments field?
A: You would use the appropriate exemption code on the DROS documentation. You also need to maintain a copy of the exemption. If the individual is a federal peace officer, verify their credential information and note in the comments field the agency and ID #. If they have a business card, you may attach it to the DROS documentation.

Audience Question
Q: are we allowed to copy federal id's
A: Federal law says no. Verify the individuals credential and include agency and ID # in the comments field of the DROS documentation.

Audience Question
Q: Is it 30 days from the date of DROS or the date they picked up?
A: 30 days from date of DROS

Audience Question
Q: 30 days from application submission or firearm delivery?
A: from date of application

Audience Question
Q: If a salesperson does not have a COE are they still able to register/deliver a firearm and use their DROS login?
A: yes. If they have a COE they would include it on the DROS documentation. If they don't have a COE they may still login and deliver, but would not include a COE number.

Audience Question
Q: would it be possible to not allow the dros to print until the "Deliver gun" buttton is clicked? We are always distracted by the customers and sometimes print the dros without clicking the deliver button,
A: if you forget to click delivered, go into the system and click the delivered button as soon as possible, print the delivered copy and attach it to the other two. So you will have three copies total.

Audience Question
Q: so can federal peace officers have large cap mags?
A: Federal peace officers are not currently exempt from purchasing large cap magazines. Their agency may purchase and provide them to the individuals, but a peace officer is not currently able to purchase them.

Audience Question
Q: The "New Dealer" Webinar said thaqt the thumb print needed toi be on the initial DORS and NOT both. Which is it???
A: Our direction from management is that it needs to be on the delivered DROS.

Audience Question
Q: DOJ reps have previously stated, on more than one occasion, that thumb print is okay on EITHER DROS, not specifically the derived DROS.
A: Our current (and recent) direction from management is to have the thumbprint on the delivered DROS.

Q: Can you get TP clarification to us in WRITING ?

Q: Or can you get clarifiation to your field reps for consistancy??

Audience Question
Q: What about Tribal Police? Are the Tribal cops eligible to purchase off roster or high cap mags or 1 in 30?
A: The only tribal police that are currently able to purchase non-rostered firearm and are eligible for the 1 in 30 day exemption is the Miwok tribla police. They are currently the only tribal police that are sanctioned as a CA LEO under the 830 code.
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Old 11-15-2016, 9:45 AM
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There was more, I wasn't able to copy it all
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Old 11-15-2016, 4:47 PM
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They are stupid and don't know the reason for what they are doing.

I was told that it has to be on one of the copies. The problem is that if the person is denied, then there is no second copy and it is unlikely that they will come in again. I was also told that the reason for the thumbprint is in the case the person is denied so that it can be proven that they illegally attempted to purchase a firearm since otherwise they can just say it was not them and that someone might have stolen their ID.

I have to wonder what the point is for the thumbprint on the delivered DROS. I suppose that if the person were actually prohibited, then it shows that it was delivered to them and they could claim that while they submitted the DROS, that there were not the actual person who picked it up, which really would not make sense.

So, if this is the reason, then it makes sense to have it on the initial DROS.
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Old 11-15-2016, 5:21 PM
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Agree. They need to resource some good FFLs who know their stuff to help them get better and more efficient.
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Old 11-15-2016, 5:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbetts View Post
Agree. They need to resource some good FFLs who know their stuff to help them get better and more efficient.
You mean like not asking the 4 yes/no questions each time when submitting multiple DROS for the same person? I know, perhaps the answers changed in the last minute. Or how about not being able to make it easy for multiple PPTs between the same people.

The list goes on and on.
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Old 11-15-2016, 9:14 PM
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Glad to see so many of us on both of these webinars. You dealers that have been around awhile but took time to attend these are a good inspiration to new guys like me. Impressive that you use any opportunity you can to keep learning.
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Old 11-16-2016, 2:02 PM
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I was out of town during the Webinar. Where is the replay taking place? Link?
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Old 11-16-2016, 5:49 PM
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you can register here this evening or early tomorrowhttps://attendee.gotowebinar.com/reg...07766056388868
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  #14  
Old 11-22-2016, 6:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
They are stupid and don't know the reason for what they are doing.

I was told that it has to be on one of the copies. The problem is that if the person is denied, then there is no second copy and it is unlikely that they will come in again. I was also told that the reason for the thumbprint is in the case the person is denied so that it can be proven that they illegally attempted to purchase a firearm since otherwise they can just say it was not them and that someone might have stolen their ID.

I have to wonder what the point is for the thumbprint on the delivered DROS. I suppose that if the person were actually prohibited, then it shows that it was delivered to them and they could claim that while they submitted the DROS, that there were not the actual person who picked it up, which really would not make sense.

So, if this is the reason, then it makes sense to have it on the initial DROS.


See this is exactly what I was told by them during a previous webinar. Had to end up clarifying with my field rep and she said to just have both of them done to be safe.
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Old 11-25-2016, 11:41 AM
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I have always done just the first one.before I had a FFL I never had an FFL do both..or even show me the delivered dros..I printed them up just in case after I saw this webinar but in future I guess I will have to do both..PITA..they need an official bulletin on this
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  #16  
Old 11-25-2016, 3:01 PM
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I'm sure there will be as soon as the right hand talks to the left hand...or was the left foot???
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Old 11-26-2016, 9:36 AM
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Does anyone remember how and when we were advised to capture the right thumb print?
I've gone thru all the DOJ bulletins and can find nothing nor does it appear on any of the instructions for the DES.
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Old 11-26-2016, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
I'm sure there will be as soon as the right hand talks to the left hand...or was the left foot???
Therein lies the problem - none of those have ears.
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Old 11-26-2016, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
Does anyone remember how and when we were advised to capture the right thumb print?
I've gone thru all the DOJ bulletins and can find nothing nor does it appear on any of the instructions for the DES.
It appears in CA PC 28160 and seems to indicate that it is part of the submission, but it says:

Quote:
(b) The purchaser shall provide the purchaser's right thumbprint
on the register in a manner prescribed by the department. No
exception to this requirement shall be permitted except by
regulations adopted by the department.
(c) The firearms dealer shall record on the register or record of
electronic transfer the date that the firearm is delivered, together
with the firearm dealer's signature indicating delivery of the
firearm.
(d) The purchaser shall sign the register or the record of
electronic transfer on the date that the firearm is delivered to him
or her.
The next two talk about delivery. But this was before the second printout was required since (c) talks about writing the time and date of delivery instead of printing a new version. It also mentions that the form has to be signed at the time of delivery.
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Old 11-26-2016, 1:12 PM
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Pretty vague stuff. Maybe that's why I can't remember anything specific other than "right thumb".
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