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  #1  
Old 11-15-2017, 11:35 AM
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Default How to DROS 37mm Flare Launchers?

Like this one:
https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-M...15-p/r0810.htm

Also, how do you mark them on the 4473? Receiver -- if receiver then do we DROS same as a stripped receiver so caliber doesn't matter?
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2017, 11:39 AM
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Without looking at the item, I would suspect "other" and on question 27 put "flare launcher" or whatever its classified as by ATF. Sort of what we do in AZ for suppressors.

Would CA consider them to be a destructive device? Like the grenade launchers on a Yugo SKS?

And another question. How would you DROS it? As a receiver? I see they're serialized, but I dunno. Never even thought to ever look at these things.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:47 AM
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Drosd just like an AR receiver. Same difference.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superhondaz50 View Post
Drosd just like an AR receiver. Same difference.
On 4473 marked as Ace's said or "receiver" as we do as an AR receiver?
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  #5  
Old 11-15-2017, 12:52 PM
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This looks like a blast!!

Does anyone know how to get the shotgun attachment to your AR?
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2017, 12:55 PM
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Its a federal document, so I would defer to ATF and see how they would classify it. It may be a receiver, it may be a Flare Launcher. Depends.

Like with the Mossberg Cruiser on the 4473 you check 'other firearm' then you would mark question 27 for a 'pistol grip shotgun' not a 'shotgun' even though on the DROS its a 'longgun' and ATF doesn't classify it as such because obviously in CA its either a Handgun or Longgun and there's no other room for anything else on the DROS.
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  #7  
Old 11-15-2017, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
On 4473 marked as Ace's said or "receiver" as we do as an AR receiver?
I'd mark it receiver.
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  #8  
Old 11-15-2017, 1:03 PM
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You need to clarify what that item "IS"

A Flare Launcher is not a firearm = no 4473 or dros

Also I do not think in CA you can mount a "flare Launcher" to a firearm

as it becomes an AW (could b wrong on this )

Also with a 12" barrel if it is a firearm it would be a pistol or a SBR if it was attached to a stock / attaching it to a rifle attaches it to the stock
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Last edited by ASD1; 11-15-2017 at 1:12 PM..
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Old 11-15-2017, 2:33 PM
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Quote:
You need to clarify what that item "IS"
This is a title 1 firearm reciever with a 37mm tube

Quote:
A Flare Launcher is not a firearm = no 4473 or dros
These are firearms marked 40mm grenade but NFA paperwork to make is a DD was never done and 40mm barrel has never been attached.

Quote:
Also I do not think in CA you can mount a "flare Launcher" to a firearm
You can is its going on a registered AW or a fixed mag AR.

Quote:
Also with a 12" barrel if it is a firearm it would be a pistol or a SBR if it was attached to a stock / attaching it to a rifle attaches it to the stock
37mm smooth tubes are not considered barrels.

Short answer these are logged in ATF book:
Make/Model/Type/Cal/Serial
Colt/M203/Receiver/40mm Grenade/XXXXX
DROS in DES as longgun/receiver only for those who want to do it.

Last edited by BONECUTTER; 11-15-2017 at 2:37 PM..
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  #10  
Old 11-15-2017, 2:55 PM
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So, basically you're saying its just an accessory? No NICS, DROS, 4473 or anything?
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  #11  
Old 11-15-2017, 2:58 PM
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[QUOTE=BONECUTTER;20909430]

37mm smooth tubes are not considered barrels.

QUOTE]

The ATF went after the "Can canon" guys and had them make it 16"+
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Old 11-15-2017, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
So, basically you're saying its just an accessory? No NICS, DROS, 4473 or anything?
Nope, its definitely a firearm and needs DROS 4473 ect
Stand alone flair lauchers like the cobray, spikes havoc do not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASD1 View Post
The ATF went after the "Can canon" guys and had them make it 16"+
the can cannon had a 2 inch barrel that would chamber a live round was the issue.
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  #13  
Old 11-15-2017, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BONECUTTER View Post

the can cannon had a 2 inch barrel that would chamber a live round was the issue.

10-4
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Old 11-17-2017, 7:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etwinam View Post
This looks like a blast!!

Does anyone know how to get the shotgun attachment to your AR?
You need an AOW if you don't want it really long

and even at that point, CA might decide it's an SBS when attached to a rifle (ATF is ok with it)
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  #15  
Old 11-17-2017, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
You need an AOW if you don't want it really long

and even at that point, CA might decide it's an SBS when attached to a rifle (ATF is ok with it)
AOW's are exempt from SBS laws in CA.
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  #16  
Old 11-17-2017, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by superhondaz50 View Post
AOW's are exempt from SBS laws in CA.
Even with a shoulder stock on them?
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Even with a shoulder stock on them?
Yes, being registered with the NFA/GCA as an AOW exempts it from SBS laws in CA. Keep in mind though that adding a stock would still be super illegal on a federal level with the exception of adding a AOW to a title one firearm (rifle, pistol, shotgun, other), that is a ok with the feds and exempted in CA. (Make sure no AW laws are being violated).

Last edited by superhondaz50; 11-17-2017 at 12:53 PM..
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  #18  
Old 11-17-2017, 12:49 PM
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Here's some PC, who doesn't love a little PC?


Penal Code 17710
(a) The provisions listed in Section 16590 do not apply to “any other weapon” as defined in subsection (e) of Section 5845 of Title 26 of the United States Code , which is in the possession of a person permitted to possess the weapons under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) [FN1], as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

Penal Code 16590
As used in this part, “generally prohibited weapon” means any of the following:
(t) A short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun, as prohibited by Section 33215
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  #19  
Old 11-20-2017, 9:21 AM
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Seems to me the firearm is now a registerable "a-salt weapon" once the launcher is attached.

Effective January 1, 2000, Senate Bill 23, Statutes of 1999, establishes new criteria for defining assault weapons based on generic characteristics. This bill allows and requires persons who own/possess firearms that fall under the new "assault weapon" definition to register those firearms with the Department of Justice during the one-year period between January 1, 2000 and December 31, 2000. Effective January 1, 2000, this bill adds Penal Code Section 12276.1 to the Penal Code as follows.
• 12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following: 1.A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
A.A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
B.A thumbhole stock.
C.A folding or telescoping stock.
D.A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
E.A flash suppressor.
F.A forward pistol grip.
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Old 11-20-2017, 9:39 AM
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Correct, unless it's fixed mag or rimfire.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
Seems to me the firearm is now a registerable "a-salt weapon" once the launcher is attached.

Effective January 1, 2000, Senate Bill 23, Statutes of 1999, establishes new criteria for defining assault weapons based on generic characteristics. This bill allows and requires persons who own/possess firearms that fall under the new "assault weapon" definition to register those firearms with the Department of Justice during the one-year period between January 1, 2000 and December 31, 2000. Effective January 1, 2000, this bill adds Penal Code Section 12276.1 to the Penal Code as follows.
• 12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following: 1.A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
A.A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
B.A thumbhole stock.
C.A folding or telescoping stock.
D.A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
E.A flash suppressor.
F.A forward pistol grip.
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  #21  
Old 11-20-2017, 11:42 AM
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From...Gunlaw.com

California gun owners should also be aware the Penal Code contains multiple definitions of destructive devices. Again, even though the ATF may have sent out a letter stating that an item is not deemed to be a firearm or destructive device under federal law, mere possession in California may subject you to felony prosecution. For example, 37mm launchers are regularly offered for mail order sale on the Internet. The ATF has sent out a letter stating that these launchers are considered both firearms and destructive devices when they are possessed along with "anti-personnel ammunition" such as riot control cartridges containing wood pellets, rubber pellets or balls, or bean bags.

However, this same ATF letter also states that these launchers are neither firearms nor destructive devices (and therefore not subject to federal control) when possessed only with pyrotechnic (e.g. "bird bombs" or "star burst distress flares") or tear gas cartridges. The potential "legal trap" is that there have been prosecutions in California for possession of these 37mm launchers that were possessed only with pyrotechnic cartridges. Why? Aggressive District Attorneys have used the broadly worded California definitions of destructive devices and fireworks to prosecute California gun owners who assumed these items were legal because they were able to acquire them from commercial sources.

Why run the risk...
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  #22  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASD1 View Post
10-4
they changed the can cannon and made it so that it would not... so they're fine now!
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  #23  
Old 11-21-2017, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
From...Gunlaw.com

California gun owners should also be aware the Penal Code contains multiple definitions of destructive devices. Again, even though the ATF may have sent out a letter stating that an item is not deemed to be a firearm or destructive device under federal law, mere possession in California may subject you to felony prosecution. For example, 37mm launchers are regularly offered for mail order sale on the Internet. The ATF has sent out a letter stating that these launchers are considered both firearms and destructive devices when they are possessed along with "anti-personnel ammunition" such as riot control cartridges containing wood pellets, rubber pellets or balls, or bean bags.

However, this same ATF letter also states that these launchers are neither firearms nor destructive devices (and therefore not subject to federal control) when possessed only with pyrotechnic (e.g. "bird bombs" or "star burst distress flares") or tear gas cartridges. The potential "legal trap" is that there have been prosecutions in California for possession of these 37mm launchers that were possessed only with pyrotechnic cartridges. Why? Aggressive District Attorneys have used the broadly worded California definitions of destructive devices and fireworks to prosecute California gun owners who assumed these items were legal because they were able to acquire them from commercial sources.

Why run the risk...
quick summary...

Signal type rounds are legal under Federal and CA laws.
^ Such as flares, smoke, and chalk rounds.

Illegal (felony) under Federal laws to possess or use anti-personnel type rounds without BATFE approval.
^ Such as bean bag, rubber ball, rubber shot, explosive, and incendiary.

Illegal (felony) under CA laws to possess or use any non-signal type rounds.
^ Such as bean bag, rubber ball, rubber shot, explosive, incendiary, and tear gas (includes pepper gas/powder).
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  #24  
Old 11-21-2017, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csshih View Post
they changed the can cannon and made it so that it would not... so they're fine now!
Current, X-Products Can Cannon legality in CA thread.
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  #25  
Old 11-27-2017, 7:34 AM
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Just receiver, same as you would do an AR receiver. They shipped to California as receivers.
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