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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 01-15-2010, 7:14 AM
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Default 1951 Navy .44

i just purchased my first black powder pistol on Cabela's. I am just curious to how accurate it will be at about 15-25 yards?

also, i did not want to buy the caps & powder because of the hazard fee. anyone know where i can purchase these in he south bay/san jose area?
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Old 01-15-2010, 9:06 AM
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accuracy of these types really depends a lot on the skill level of the shooter. They are probably much more accurate than the originals. With a bit of practice and careful loading getting a group of a few inches is likely, and I am sure there are some who have done much better.
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Old 01-15-2010, 9:48 AM
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I have not seen caps anywhere on my forays up to the Bay Area but I only go to a few places so your mileage may vary. Markley's in Watsonville has both CCI caps and Pyrodex P which is what you probably want to start with for that pistol. You'll also need wads and I am not sure where to get over the counter. Also bore butter to seal each cylinder after loading.

A couple of things I learned if you're going to shoot it a lot. 1.) Buy an extra cyclinder. 2.) Get a loading stand to hold the pistol they have cheap on eBay and other places - or - (better in my opinion) a loading stand for a removed cylinder. Looks like this.

Much easier and quicker than trying to load each cylinder with the pistol.
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Old 01-15-2010, 1:28 PM
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thanks for the info so far. i have wads coming in w/ the pistol as well as bullets. i was able to find caps & the green pyrodex powder at sportsmen's supply in campbell during lunch (5 minutes from my work).

i will look into the loading stand as it just seems easier than propping the pistol.

will i need different solvents for black powder than i would use for my regular firearms? i hear black powder is pretty harsh. how many shots can i go before i should clean the cylinder?
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Old 01-15-2010, 4:28 PM
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My 12" 1858 Rem was very accurate, even out to 30+ yards. But that thing had a huge sight radius and a nice long rifled barrel and adjustable sights.

Make sure to use FFFg powders.

Hot water and dish soap make a fine solvent for your pistol. I wash by filling a 5 gallon bucket halfway with very hot water and foamy dishsoap. Remove the wooden hand grips and just dunk the pistol and go to town on it. Throw it in the oven until its dry afterwards and then lube it back up. It'll be like new every time. Have fun!

PS: I wash all my guns after shooting them when I get home from the range. Some people wipe the bore every cylinder or every few cylinders, but I never bothered washing till I got home at the end of an outing.

Last edited by joelberg; 01-15-2010 at 4:31 PM..
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Old 01-15-2010, 4:39 PM
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The dishwasher works well too. Just make sure the wife is out before do so....

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Old 01-15-2010, 7:57 PM
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VERY VERY VERY accurate. I have two of them. Most amazing. #11 caps cci and .451 round ball. becarefull some people will say .454 but i have had problems with .454 The loading lever when you press in the ball will feel like it jams and you could bend the rod. If you have any questions let me know.

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Old 01-15-2010, 7:58 PM
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Old 01-17-2010, 11:41 AM
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1851?
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Old 01-20-2010, 8:03 AM
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i received my 1851 yesterday.

played w/ it a bit, and even shot some percussion caps through it (as suggested in the manual). i was wondering if this is safe to shoot at indoor ranges as it is black powder.

i'd hate to have to wait until the torrential downpour subsides to hit up Metcalf.

also, looking through the manual, i guess i have to punch out the wedge in front of the cylinder to take out the actual cylinder as i did purchase the loading stand as suggested by rp55. over time would that area wear down?
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mala in se View Post
i received my 1851 yesterday.

played w/ it a bit, and even shot some percussion caps through it (as suggested in the manual). i was wondering if this is safe to shoot at indoor ranges as it is black powder.

i'd hate to have to wait until the torrential downpour subsides to hit up Metcalf.

also, looking through the manual, i guess i have to punch out the wedge in front of the cylinder to take out the actual cylinder as i did purchase the loading stand as suggested by rp55. over time would that area wear down?
The new powders don't smoke as much, so it should not be a problem indoors. But ask the range and see, they will tell you.

If you get your hands on old powder, I would not shoot it indoors. The last time at the outdoor range they asked me to move down wind of the other shooters (which I did).

Get used to "punching out the wedge" anyway. You should do that and break the pistol down to clean it all the way. Powder gets everywhere and it is the only way to clean it completely.

I've never owned a "loading stand". Looks interesting. I've always been out in the sticks and it wouldn't work very well out there.

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Old 01-20-2010, 12:03 PM
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How I clean my 1858 Remington replica...

I remove the grips and the cylinder. I then boil the whole gun and cylinder for 20 minutes in soapy water. Pull it out and run a brass brush through the barrel and the cylinder. I then boil the whole thing again in clean water, and dry it in a 250 degree oven for half an hour. Take the hot pistol and spray inside and out with WD-40 (as a rust preventative, which is what it's really for... WD-40 is not a good lubricant.) It should smoke a bit when sprayed. Wipe off all the excess WD when cool and reassemble.

Easy to do, although it takes a while. No rust.

Black powder residue is intensely hygroscopic, and the sulphur will combine with water to make a weak sulphuric acid that will rust steel in days. So you must clean the gun immediately after shooting. I boil the whole gun bacuase the screws are fairly soft, and the residue gets everywhere inside the action. So you want to avoid stripping it down too often, but you need to get into all the nooks and crannies.

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  #13  
Old 01-25-2010, 8:43 AM
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thanks for all the info everyone.

so far, it has been fun shooting the 1851 Navy.

however, my group were a li'l over 6" from 7 yards out, which is pretty alarming.

i am putting 26 grains of pyrodex, a felt powder wad, .441 lead ball, then topped it off w/ wonderseal. what could be causing such bad groupings. i'm not that bad of a shot and that single action is pretty smooth.

recoil is notch below 9mm in my opinion, and it's kinda of cool seeing fire coming out of the barrel like that.

another questions, i use #10 caps as directed by the Cabela guys, but it seemed a little tight. i bought some #11 and it seems kind of loose. what kind of caps are you using for those who own one?
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Old 01-25-2010, 9:55 AM
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As an aside, try shooting it at night if you want a really good show! LOL

BTW - I still put mine in the dishwasher - grips removed - whenever the Wife or kids are not around. The kids have a tendacy to "tell" on me if they catch me doing it these days...
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mala in se View Post
i am putting 26 grains of pyrodex, a felt powder wad, .441 lead ball,
There's your problem. Try either a .451 or .454 ball. It should shave a nice circular lead ring from the ball when you seat it in the cylinder. If the .441 was a typo and you're using a .451, try going to a .454 or .459 ball.
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:44 AM
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Since it's blackpowder, can it be carried concealed without a permit?
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:33 PM
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No.

In CA a firearm is defined as anything that will throw a projectile so concealment laws do apply.
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Old 01-25-2010, 1:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallship View Post
There's your problem. Try either a .451 or .454 ball. It should shave a nice circular lead ring from the ball when you seat it in the cylinder. If the .441 was a typo and you're using a .451, try going to a .454 or .459 ball.
yeah, it was a typo as i am using .451. i'll try the .454 when i make a trip to the shop. but just in case it isn't the ball, do you think it could be anything else?
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Old 01-25-2010, 2:24 PM
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I have a 1851 and a 1858, you don't get that many rounds through it before the cylinder starts to bind up.I say about 4-5 cylinders, that powder goes every where.
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Old 01-25-2010, 2:25 PM
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Try using a bit more powder. Most .44 Armies (which is the same cylinder as your gun) like 30-35 grains of powder.
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Old 01-27-2010, 8:26 PM
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Pietta 1860 Colt offhand
Six shots, 20 yards, 14 seconds
Modjeska Ridge near Santiago Peak
September, 2005

After the fact, taken in our rose garden.
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Old 01-28-2010, 5:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallship View Post
Try using a bit more powder. Most .44 Armies (which is the same cylinder as your gun) like 30-35 grains of powder.
Unless it's a brass frame.

If it's a brass frame I wouldn't load anymore than 30 grains of real black. Maybe 27 of 777.
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Old 01-28-2010, 6:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelberg View Post
Unless it's a brass frame.

If it's a brass frame I wouldn't load anymore than 30 grains of real black. Maybe 27 of 777.
You're right about the brass frame. Hadn't considered that. But if it is, I wouldn't load any more than 20 grains with filler.

Last edited by Tallship; 01-28-2010 at 6:48 AM..
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  #24  
Old 01-28-2010, 7:41 AM
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mine is a brass frame, i loaded 26gr when i took it out, and got horrible groups. do you think i should try 28-30gr?
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Old 01-28-2010, 5:28 PM
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I use 30gr on mine and i don't get horrible groups too... maybe it's the roundballs?
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:45 PM
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Bought my 1851 Navy last month from Cabelas, $119 minus a $20 off coupon = $99.00. Came with a nice wood presentation box. I haven't fired it yet, still haven't got round to buying any .451 lead balls for it. I look forward to shooting it though.

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