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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 01-16-2010, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Ed, I don't care who gets credit. I care who argues for our rights in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court.
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This is not about my ego. I don't care if CGF's name is on anything. I just care that we have the best people doing the hardest jobs.
Which is why winning wars are planned by adults, not kids. A big part of the reason CalNRA and now CGF are *effective* when so many others are not is because they seem to have always been run by adults. You can give a kid a platoon and have it work out. You can't give him a division.

In gun-rights the privates and second lieutenants believe they are generals. When they get the bit in their teeth it works out for us about as well as it worked for the Imperial Japanese Army.

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At this point in time Alan Gura is the most experienced winning firearms constitutional litigator ever based on cold hard facts.
And a fine essayist and a gentleman of taste and intellect in an older tradition of American men of letters.

7x57
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I know every chance I get I'm going to accuse 7x57 of being a shill for LCAV. Because I can.
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  #82  
Old 01-16-2010, 10:45 AM
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I do worry about wins like these. It can really lead to overconfidence in parties that are desparate to file something.

That said, they had a pretty good template
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  #83  
Old 01-16-2010, 12:02 PM
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What's with the Court's Order on page 3, line 4, where it mistakenly references the Eighth rather than the Fourteenth Amendment as raised in Mr. Peruta's Second Claim for Relief.

Also, on page 13, lines 7 & 8 , the following sentence is clearly odd:
"Accordingly, Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss for failure to state a claim Plaintiff’s challenge to the “good cause” requirement of Section 12050 fails."
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  #84  
Old 01-16-2010, 12:29 PM
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Last edited by Edward Peruta; 01-19-2010 at 7:22 AM..
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  #85  
Old 01-16-2010, 12:37 PM
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Ed,

I'll give you a call this weekend, but I stated the extent of my concern with being mislead as it was stated to us that this was going to be an equal protections case and not a direct 2A challenge. I do have some concerns that some of the FRCP wasn't followed but in one case I may just be unaware.

The concerns I have with your background are with the dossier that MyRockyMount created that implies an odd separation with law enforcement in the 1970's and a no contest plea to securities fraud in Florida in the 1980s. All this is readily available on Google so I leave it to a reader to see what my concerns are. None of it rises to the level that should deny you a right to carry, but it may not make you the best plaintiff to represent gun owners under any intense media scrutiny.

-Gene
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  #86  
Old 01-16-2010, 1:24 PM
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Default Let's get along.

Guys,

The case is not decided yet, but this is a stinging defeat for the San Diego Sheriff.

Ed may have been "lucky", but you know that sooner or later we are bound to get some "good luck" our way.


Nicki
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  #87  
Old 01-16-2010, 1:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Ed,

I'll give you a call this weekend, but I stated the extent of my concern with being mislead as it was stated to us that this was going to be an equal protections case and not a direct 2A challenge. I do have some concerns that some of the FRCP wasn't followed but in one case I may just be unaware.

The concerns I have with your background are with the dossier that MyRockyMount created that implies an odd separation with law enforcement in the 1970's and a no contest plea to securities fraud in Florida in the 1980s. All this is readily available on Google so I leave it to a reader to see what my concerns are. None of it rises to the level that should deny you a right to carry, but it may not make you the best plaintiff to represent gun owners under any intense media scrutiny.

-Gene
From the looks of this I would have serious doubts as to whether Mr. Peruta would be a good candidate to represent any Gun Owner.
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  #88  
Old 01-16-2010, 1:38 PM
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Luck is great, but then you have to capitalize on it.

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Originally Posted by nicki View Post
Guys,

The case is not decided yet, but this is a stinging defeat for the San Diego Sheriff.

Ed may have been "lucky", but you know that sooner or later we are bound to get some "good luck" our way.


Nicki
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  #89  
Old 01-16-2010, 1:47 PM
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From the looks of this I would have serious doubts as to whether Mr. Peruta would be a good candidate to represent any Gun Owner.
Exactly. On the bright side, he's not up for murder/robbery.
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  #90  
Old 01-16-2010, 2:09 PM
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Exactly. On the bright side, he's not up for murder/robbery.
Obviously, SDSO doesn't think Ed is a danger/disqualified from possessing a carry permit, and neither does CT, so that part probably is not a concern.

Couldn't Ed's case be consolidated(if needed) at the circuit level w/Sykes since the issues are pretty much identical?
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  #91  
Old 01-16-2010, 3:07 PM
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Last edited by Edward Peruta; 01-19-2010 at 7:23 AM..
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  #92  
Old 01-16-2010, 4:00 PM
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I was recently denied a CCW in San Bernardino county as I was deemed a non-resident when they talked to a neighbor who said she only saw me on weekends. I do have houses in both Los Angeles and San Bernardino counties. If this case in San Diego is won, I wonder if I should refile....There are no definite guidelines on what constitutes Primary residence; at least, none that I could find.
Anyway, glad this motion failed....Good luck on the case.
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  #93  
Old 01-16-2010, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Edward Peruta View Post
I will await your call this weekend and hope that I have supplied informaiton that may resolve any concerns you have regading my past.
As I said earlier, I don't consider your colorful past more than that of an activist, though I'd be very careful with the MLK comparison. His criminal record was as to his civil rights work. That said and as I said, I'm confident you have your good explanations. However, if your case goes far enough, you'll be in a food fight with folks like the LA Times where your side of the story will be ignored.

I'll give you a call Sunday.

-Gene
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  #94  
Old 01-16-2010, 7:17 PM
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Last edited by Edward Peruta; 01-19-2010 at 7:23 AM..
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  #95  
Old 01-16-2010, 8:12 PM
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Mr. Peruta,

Victories like yours are great to see. Some of us have been working
this fight for 25 years and are now seeing so many changes so fast it
is hard to keep up.

The commenter 1JimMarch pointed out something important, the
Duke Power angle. The best review of the 1970 SJC Duke ruling
is in the book "The Bell Curve", but the essential result is that anything
that government does, where that thing ends up having a racial bias
in the result, is presumed, by default, to be illegal.

So, by getting a federal judge to open up the SDSD to discovery, it is a
foregone conclusion that Duke violations will be found. After all, the
only purpose for passing the current handgun law was to deny Chinese,
Mexicans and Negros the ability to carry handguns. The people that
passed the law in the 1920s were very clear on that point. The current
Assembly is also very clear on that point. Back in July of 2009, when
it could not pass laws, the Assembly passed a detailed, formal apology
for passing racially discriminatory laws, including the current handgun
law.

If we can open SDSD the whole 58 counties will just unzip. The
clear, obvious, racial discrimination at the heart of the current system may
just collapse.

Timing, and events, are important. The Assembly has been presented
AB357 to correct the issue, and has shelved it twice -- recently. We
are in the countdown period to a lockout of the Assembly due to the
declaration of fiscal emergency. With the right sequence of events,
the laws may be declared unconstitutional, and thus voided. At the same
time, the Assembly will not be able to pass any new laws. There may
be a period where we have Vermont-style carry.

Say this goes on for 3 months -- and the world does not end. What can
the antis say? "The lack of crime will only continue if we pass harsh,
unconstitutional gun laws!"

You may have in your hands the lever to overturn the current pile of
racist crap we all hate. Please realize just how valuable this chance is.
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  #96  
Old 01-16-2010, 9:06 PM
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Wow, This thread certainly went for a ride in the hills. Very interesting though...
Any idea when we may see a conclusion to this case?
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  #97  
Old 01-16-2010, 9:53 PM
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Wow, This thread certainly went for a ride in the hills. Very interesting though...
Any idea when we may see a conclusion to this case?
Dare I say it?

"... ....."
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  #98  
Old 01-16-2010, 11:19 PM
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Two weeks
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  #99  
Old 01-16-2010, 11:42 PM
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Two weeks
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  #100  
Old 01-17-2010, 12:12 AM
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I talked to Ed today. He strikes me as extremely knowledgeable and has a VERY solid rep with Conn. gunnies.

Two quick examples:

Quote:
OK GUYS,
I recieved a call today from Lt. Proudfoot to inform me of the Stratford Police Department’s reconsideration of my application for a Temporary Permit to Carry!!!!!

I was told that because of the phone calls from the Wonderful Mr. ED Puruta from CCDL and Sgt. Doug Hall, That they looked further into the Fl. Statue and found that my Arrest was Not a Conviction!!!!

I like to thank Mr Ed Peruta and the CCDL for all the help they have done for me, as well as OC.ORG !!

WITH OUT YOU GUYS, I would of had to wait for my appeal date (in March of 2011) to get what I will be getting in a few days!!

I like to take some time to tell everyone on this forum to SUPPORT THE CCDL!!!!
They are great guys with alot of knowledge AND I AM THANKFUL TO THEM!!!

All tho I do not have my CC Permit yet I signed up to be a member of the CCDL and I support everything they do!!!!

And I also like to thank Chief John J. Buturla and Lt. Proudfoot Stratford Police Department, Because of your decision to take time to listen and to further research this issue further for me.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum14/34568.html

Ed is also backing the Goldberg case, in which a guy was minding his own biz with a CCW permit, accidentally flashed, somebody got scared, called the cops, they arrested the permitholder despite Conn. being an open-carry-legal state (with carry permit). See also:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum14/35606.html

While I haven't had a listen yet, he says the audio from the federal 2nd circuit court found at:

http://www.ctgunrights.com/06.Audio/...20Goldberg.mp3

...is a hoot and a half.

Upshot: I believe Ed should be taken very seriously. I'm not going to discuss his upcoming tactics in a public forum other than to say I approve, and I genuinely believe Gene and even Alan Gura would approve.
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  #101  
Old 01-17-2010, 12:42 AM
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What I want to know is how did you get the police department personnel files? It is almost impossible to get that kind of dirt on an LEO. He must have really pissed somebody off!


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Originally Posted by obeygiant View Post
From the looks of this I would have serious doubts as to whether Mr. Peruta would be a good candidate to represent any Gun Owner.
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  #102  
Old 01-17-2010, 1:07 AM
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I believe that 7X57 said something to the effect that you can give a kid a company but not a division. I ask: If the kid gets lucky and breaches the enemies lines, does not the wise old general commit resources to exploit it?
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  #103  
Old 01-17-2010, 2:14 AM
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He has indeed blown open a hole in their lines and is running rampant in their back yard.
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  #104  
Old 01-17-2010, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by obeygiant View Post
From the looks of this I would have serious doubts as to whether Mr. Peruta would be a good candidate to represent any Gun Owner.
No kidding. And a quick Google search also reveals that Mr. Peruta has a history of litigation with local police departments. "Cooperative" doesn't seem to be a word that most would use to describe him.

This is yet another example of the "tone-deaf" attitude that can be displayed by some of the more individualist members of the gun community. Whether it's a strident insistence on the righteousness of their cause, or a jarring habit of comparing themselves to the leaders of the American Civil Rights movement, none of it helps our cause.

"Optics" carry weight — a lot of weight.
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  #105  
Old 01-17-2010, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1JimMarch View Post
Upshot: I believe Ed should be taken very seriously. I'm not going to discuss his upcoming tactics in a public forum other than to say I approve, and I genuinely believe Gene and even Alan Gura would approve.
It's not a matter of believing that his tactics would be effective (His tactics are essentially Alan Gura's carbon copied). Yes, he's been effective in Connecticut on multiple occasions and good at prodding the authorities to stop harassing open carriers. I'll give him a mountain of credit for that.

However, his history will not stand up to the light of close scrutiny. Given the fact that securities fraud and other financial crimes are very much hated given the current economic downtown over those issues, to me it's too much of a taint especially when the LA Times gets a hold of it.

Peruta got lucky. He had a combination of two things here: A really good judge, and very bad defense counsel on the other side.
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  #106  
Old 01-17-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
Peruta got lucky. He had a combination of two things here: a really
|good judge, and very bad defense counsel on the other side.
And a good master template for the case taken from Sykes. At least something was right.

Though Sykes, by contrast, had plaintiffs with impeccable backgrounds and without "color".
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  #107  
Old 01-17-2010, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
And a good master template for the case taken from Sykes. At least something was right.

Though Sykes, by contrast, had plaintiffs with impeccable backgrounds and without "color".
Sykes also has that little issue of, you know, having the attorney who *wrote the complaint* with experience up to and including winning a 2A case (soon plural) at SCOTUS.
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  #108  
Old 01-17-2010, 12:31 PM
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Speaking of successful cases, Palmer is up for orals this week. The 22nd, according to the Wiki.
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  #109  
Old 01-17-2010, 1:51 PM
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Last edited by Edward Peruta; 01-19-2010 at 7:24 AM..
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  #110  
Old 01-17-2010, 1:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Peruta View Post
I have always trusted the system to look beyond whatever colorful events occured in a persons past and concentrate on the factual issues placed before the court.
Lady Justice doesn't attempt to draw parallels to MLK when it is convenient, either.
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Old 01-17-2010, 1:58 PM
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For those that have fought for it, freedom and justice have a flavor the protected shall never taste.
and there it is.......


somebody needs to write the function equation for the # of posts and the time distance between said posts required before the inevitable happens and the real patriots pat themselves on the backs....
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  #112  
Old 01-17-2010, 2:35 PM
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Ed, you've successfully come across as even more naïve and reckless than your first few posts related.

I hope you get your CCW, Ed; don't get me wrong. However, understand that it would be a tragedy if Sykes is not the "bear" case presented to CA9.
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  #113  
Old 01-17-2010, 2:44 PM
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Last edited by Edward Peruta; 01-19-2010 at 7:25 AM.. Reason: To add a comment
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  #114  
Old 01-17-2010, 2:57 PM
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Ed, I'm sorry you're finding it too difficult to debate an educated and informed audience. I don't know what that says about OCDO but I am pleased that CGN is a place for critical analysis and those who find it useful.
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Old 01-17-2010, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopi View Post
and there it is.......


somebody needs to write the function equation for the # of posts and the time distance between said posts required before the inevitable happens and the real patriots pat themselves on the backs....
that right there ^^^ is funny.
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  #116  
Old 01-17-2010, 4:28 PM
CCWFacts CCWFacts is offline
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Ed, you've successfully come across as even more naïve and reckless than your first few posts related.
Yes.

One other poster here described him as "tone deaf". And that's the impression I get from the quotes related to him being fired as a police officer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruta's personnel file
He does not take orders, nor criticism well. When he is given instructions, he wants to do things the way he thinks they should be done and not the way he is told to do them. When he is criticized for anything at all, he can come up with a million reasons why it should not be or why somebody else is wrong for him doing this particular thing wrong. He has not even shown that he can be entrusted with the sage and sane operation of a motor vehicle.

In the evaluation of this officer, I would like to say that the officer is immature and because of this most of his problems are his own doing. He will act first, and then think about what he has done, admit that he was wrong, and then do the same thing over again.
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Originally Posted by 1995 article about Peruta
Those who say they respect him for his honesty and ethics say he can be an extremist who fails to see the gray areas.

Councilwoman Barbara Surwilo says compromise and diplomacy can sometimes escape him. "If he would just go about things a little differently, he could get the same things done without people rolling their eyes when you talk about him," says Bob Hall, a longtime Rocky Hill resident. Peruta acknowledges there are gray areas, but says the issues he tackles are about right and wrong. Depending on who's asking, people in and around Rocky Hill attribute Peruta's behavior to anything from obsession to insanity.
Many others have noticed he doesn't see gray areas, implications or any other than simple right and wrong. Definitely not a good starting point for winning complex legal battles, because legal questions usually do involve considering different views of a subject.

The PDF then goes on to list unending confrontations with the city, dishonest schemes such as claiming to have a "worm farm" so he can operate an off-road motorcycle track, and numerous lawsuits against his city. Many of these suits were settled for small amounts, and were basically nuisance lawsuits that the city didn't want to fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by article about Peruta
But voices from the past that urge him to find the truth, he says, always push him forward.

"That is Ed Peruta," he [Mr. Peruta] says [about himself]. "That is not a crazy, insane gadfly with no other purpose in life but to harass public officials. There is a reason for what I do. I am still a warrior."
I personally don't have a good impression about someone who talks about himself in the third person and calls himself a warrior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
I hope you get your CCW, Ed; don't get me wrong. However, understand that it would be a tragedy if Sykes is not the "bear" case presented to CA9.
Yes.

Good luck Ed. My deepest wish in this matter is that SD issues you your permit immediately, and therefore you lose standing to pursue your case.

If your case becomes the case to argue CCW in front of the 9th, rather than Sykes, it could delay CCW in this state by years. I have a feeling that you wouldn't care, any more than Mr. Gorski cares about the harm he has done.
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Last edited by CCWFacts; 01-17-2010 at 4:57 PM..
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  #117  
Old 01-17-2010, 5:02 PM
1JimMarch 1JimMarch is offline
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You guys are being way too harsh here. His career in law enforcement ended in 1971 for God's sake...he's had quite a bit of time since then to mellow SOME .

But seriously, look at it again:

Quote:
He does not take orders, nor criticism well. When he is given instructions, he wants to do things the way he thinks they should be done and not the way he is told to do them. When he is criticized for anything at all, he can come up with a million reasons why it should not be or why somebody else is wrong for him doing this particular thing wrong.
Well a lot of departments are bureaucratic and do dumb stuff. Apparently he didn't handle that well. And your point is? MY point is that somebody who can't deal with official idiocy such as San Diego's CCW policies is exactly the sort of person who's going to challenge 'em.

Some of you say that like it's a bad thing.

Guys, I've met a LOT of political activists, including specimens from both the right and left (I deal with election issues too, remember?). ALL of us are at a minimum "not normal". By definition. Some closer to "screwloose" in at least some ways . Most people ("normal" people?) don't fight city hall. I'll tell y'all right now, *I'm* abnormal . Mild Asperger's case for starters.

Hell, most people won't even pack daily in a state like Vermont or Alaska where it's easy to do, no permit needed. By definition, all gunnies who either want to or do pack daily are at the extreme end of a bell curve of some description.

Now lookit. Gura's plan in Sykes involves zero discovery, a pure "motions suit". Sykes is on hold until the McDonald ruling. Ed plans discovery. There's no way Ed is going to end up in line ahead of Sykes...Ed isn't done dealing with *district* court, never mind getting near an appellate court.

Chill the hell out already. Stop trying to rip up a guy who has a SOLID rep in his main home state, who put his own cash money down to finance litigation and who just got a freakin' KILLER ruling.

Gawd.
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  #118  
Old 01-17-2010, 5:20 PM
CCWFacts CCWFacts is offline
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Originally Posted by 1JimMarch View Post
You guys are being way too harsh here. His career in law enforcement ended in 1971 for God's sake...he's had quite a bit of time since then to mellow SOME .
Yes but the descriptions of him and his confrontations in that PDF go on until quite recently and it's all a consistent picture. There's nothing in there where he has a moment where he says, "and then I realized... I need to listen to other people and learn and understand before I take action..." It's just more suits, some dishonest schemes (one of which gets him a misdemeanor), and an unending fight against his city in which he sees things in black and white.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1JimMarch View Post
Well a lot of departments are bureaucratic and do dumb stuff. Apparently he didn't handle that well.
I get the impression it goes way beyond that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1JimMarch View Post
Guys, I've met a LOT of political activists, including specimens from both the right and left (I deal with election issues too, remember?). ALL of us are at a minimum "not normal".
I agree with that. But some are "not normal" in a likable way, a way which is genuinely motivated by ideals not ego. That's where I categorize you, btw. Guys like Gorski and Peruta fall into another categorization: ego-driven, self-indulgent, not caring what harm they cause in their quest to prop up their own egos by being "warriors". Note that Mr. Gorski also considers himself a "warrior".

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1JimMarch View Post
Now lookit. Gura's plan in Sykes involves zero discovery, a pure "motions suit". Sykes is on hold until the McDonald ruling. Ed plans discovery. There's no way Ed is going to end up in line ahead of Sykes...Ed isn't done dealing with *district* court, never mind getting near an appellate court.
That's good. May Mr. Peruta's discovery go on for a long time.

And btw, I am certain that I will enjoy what comes out of that discovery because it's going to dig up some awful things. I just PMed you about some awful thing that is hinted at by the discovery in another CCW case from a while ago. Who knows what may lurk in SD's files; whatever it is, it's going to be ugly, and well merits being dug up and exposed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1JimMarch View Post
Chill the hell out already. Stop trying to rip up a guy who has a SOLID rep in his main home state, who put his own cash money down to finance litigation and who just got a freakin' KILLER ruling.
What's your stance on Gorksi, with his lawsuit that solidified aspects of our AW law here? He did a lot of harm by somehow getting himself to the appeals level.
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  #119  
Old 01-17-2010, 5:27 PM
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AngelDecoys AngelDecoys is offline
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Ed, please do us all a favor and don't pull a Gorski. Having your attorney (no matter how well qualified) collaborate with other 'like minds' is better than going at this alone. Something Gorski refused to do. Ed, please at least consider having your attorney collaborate with others. Its better for you. Its better for every citizen in the 9th circuit.

Whether that's refining briefs, bouncing oral questions back and forth, discussing strategy, or obtaining information for a later suit, we are all better served with an attorney who has been prepared to the best of their ability.

While I wish you the best, I hope you head the above advice (over putting us all in peril by just charging in).
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Last edited by AngelDecoys; 01-17-2010 at 7:46 PM.. Reason: clarity
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  #120  
Old 01-17-2010, 5:41 PM
1JimMarch 1JimMarch is offline
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Well having spoken to Ed on the phone twice now and read a lot of his stuff, I have a better opinion on Ed's effectiveness versus Gorski.

On the other hand, I think Gorski has had some really, REALLY bad judges and in at least one case, a bad situation.

The decision in Silveira was just...amazing. For those who haven't seen this yet, and Ed if you're reading, check out the attached file. The Silveira decision was in some ways flat-out amazing. Judge Reinhardt tried to rebuild the entire structure of American gun control based in large part on the book "Arming America" by Bellesiles just before it was debunked...if you're not familiar with THAT fiasco:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...H1aSXtTQFPsbuA

...for a starting point. Read that, then read the attached if you don't yet know about "Arming America" - if you're familiar with "Arming America", give the link above a skip.

My point is, Reinhardt couldn't support the Cruikshank case or the numerous cases that depended on it because he knew Cruikshank was a colossally racist freakshow of a case (same as the Heller court found). So he needed something else to hang his hat on, and right at the same time, the fraudulent "Arming America" was available and handy. Without that fraud, what Reinhardt tried in Silveira wouldn't have been possible.

Which suggests Gorski was the victim of truly horrible bad luck .
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Reinhardtimpeach.pdf (170.7 KB, 8 views)
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