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  #1  
Old 01-03-2010, 9:15 PM
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Default Warning: Don't be complacent! ND's can happen to anyone.

Went pig hunting w/ a few guys yesterday. After one guy (let's call him "Dave") nails a hog, we all gather over it to get a looksee. Dave then asks another guy (let's call him "Mark") to lend him his rangefinder so he can measure the shot. Mark has the rangefinder hanging from a strap on his neck, so he has to shift his rifle over to get to it.

BLAM!

Fortunately, the muzzle was pointed downward. Mark's foot and Dave's foot were about a foot apart, and the bullet split the difference nicely. No splatter or ricochet, either. Thank God.

I'm deaf. Mark is standing there, jaw dropped, frozen in a "WaaaaaTFuuuuuu just happened?" pose. Dave is doing La Cucaracha. (ETA: Now that I think of it, it looked more like River Dancing. )

Thing is, Mark has been working as a firearms instructor for a Federal LE agency for the last 13 years. After his initial shock wore off, he was the first to call it a negligent discharge. "Somehow" the safety was turned off, and when he shifted his rifle over, his finger slipped into the trigger guard and tapped the trigger. His rifle, a Rem 700 in .308, has an unmodified stock trigger. The rest of the day, Mark beats himself up pretty badly over it, shaking his head while mumbling "Thirteen years....thirteen years....I can't believe it, man....ND....me.....thirteen years."

So I told him it was a great lesson learned. That it happens to ALL of us, not just noobs. That, like motorcycle riders, there are only two types: the ones that have, and the ones that will. That's why there are FOUR rules, not three, not two. Fortunately, the muzzle was pointed downward. No harm done, small price to pay for a very important reminder.

BE EVER DILIGENT ABOUT GUN SAFETY. COMPLACENCY IS THE ENEMY. OBEY THE FOUR RULES AT ALL TIMES.

Just a friendly reminder. Shoot safe.
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2010, 9:19 PM
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Glad to hear that everybody is ok,only some bruised ego's.
I've been around a few ND's.So far not mine tho.
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Old 01-03-2010, 9:21 PM
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Glad to hear no one was injured, also glad to know that experienced veterans can have problems too. Good lesson learned, how's the ringing in the ear? Can you still hear the phone ringing or did it go away?

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Old 01-03-2010, 9:32 PM
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Definitely a frightening thing to happen. Glad to hear that everyone was okay.
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  #5  
Old 01-03-2010, 9:36 PM
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glad to hear everyone stayed safe.

and i would not like to hear what the .308 sounds like without plugs..... loud enough with them on
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Old 01-03-2010, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
and i would not like to hear what the .308 sounds like without plugs..... loud enough with them on
Trying to resist questioning modern masculinity.... but "back in the day" (70s, early 80s) eyes and ears were a rarity out plinking in the desert.
Didn't shoot for almost 10 years and a buddy invited me to the range... felt strange putting on the "headphones".

Couldn't tell you how many hundreds of .30-06 rounds discharged inches from my head.

Of course, my ears constantly ring.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-03-2010, 9:56 PM
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As the others have said, glad that everyone is safe, and yes, ND's happen, even to the best of us, Instructors, Soldiers, Law Enforcement, and Regular Joes alike.
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2010, 9:58 PM
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You live and you learn.
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2010, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle
Trying to resist questioning modern masculinity.... but "back in the day" (70s, early 80s) eyes and ears were a rarity out plinking in the desert.
Didn't shoot for almost 10 years and a buddy invited me to the range... felt strange putting on the "headphones".

Couldn't tell you how many hundreds of .30-06 rounds discharged inches from my head.

Of course, my ears constantly ring.
Have no fear. The aforementioned Dave is old school masculine. He fired off over a dozen .223 rounds that day, plus five more rounds from my 10mm Glock, all sans ear protection. He even made fun of me for wearing my electronic muffs.

Of course, his ears were ringing painfully all day. I couldn't tell you how many times he stuck a finger in his right ear, hoping to shake out whatever it was that was stinging his brain. To no avail.

There's a hog guide we used up in SLO. Guy never used plugs or muffs. No telling how many rifles in God knows how many magnum calibers he's "heard" over the years. The guy can't even have a normal conversation in the cab of his pickup. You literally have to shout in his ear for him to hear what you're saying.

Hearing never regenerates. Ear muffs for me, thanks. And I double up when at the range, too.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:06 PM
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Oh absolutely.
It's one of those "if I knew then what I know now" things.

Like I said... I have constant ringing... too many years of gunfire, rock and roll, and motorcycles (and I still refuse to wear plugs when riding).
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:19 PM
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glad your all ok! somebody was looking out for you!
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2010, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Trying to resist questioning modern masculinity.... but "back in the day" (70s, early 80s) eyes and ears were a rarity out plinking in the desert.
Didn't shoot for almost 10 years and a buddy invited me to the range... felt strange putting on the "headphones".

Couldn't tell you how many hundreds of .30-06 rounds discharged inches from my head.

Of course, my ears constantly ring.
question all you like, i am partial to being able to hear whispering with my ears..
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  #13  
Old 01-03-2010, 11:51 PM
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Scary, good to hear no one was hurt though.
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  #14  
Old 01-04-2010, 6:18 AM
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wow, just wow'


anyone say guardian angel?
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2010, 9:07 AM
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Just remembered a small tidbit: Mark said he actually felt heat from the muzzle blast through his boot!

Again, thank goodness everyone left w/ the same number of holes they came with.
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Old 01-04-2010, 9:43 AM
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I've had two in my lifetime.

1 pistol
1 Shotgun.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:53 AM
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And that is why professional game guides never let you chamber a round until you are ready to fire.

The same thing happened to me as a kid with a BB gun. From that time on I never load unless I intend to fire.
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  #18  
Old 01-04-2010, 11:00 AM
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Tell your buddy Mark that it was a humility lesson.

Over the years, I've learned that as people become complacent about their "proficiency" to handle guns safely, they eventually get lax and something like this happens. And I'm no exception.

And when it happens, you get very humbled by it and resort to strict discipline for years afterwards.

Rule #1 - Always point the muzzle in a safe direction. If you forget every other rule and the gun discharges, no one is hurt and nothing valuable is destroyed.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:04 AM
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Glad no one got hurt, "stuff happens" that's why we always obey the rules.
Double up on ear protection at the indoor range.
When my buddy hands me an open unloaded gun, I CHECK IT MYSELF.
I've let the slide down on a few bangs, make sure its ALWAYS pointed downrange. A bit unnerving.
Can never be too safe.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:58 AM
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Good lesson...keep your safety engaged unless you are shooting something! Even at the range, shooting from a bench, so you get into the habit.
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  #21  
Old 01-04-2010, 2:01 PM
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they wont happen if you cant find any ammo to buy
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Old 01-04-2010, 2:28 PM
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I had a gun fall out of a new whiz-bang holster and go off when the muzzle hit the cement.
I never used that holster again.

The 9mm lead bullet left a nice little 2" diameter reminder in the cement that I see every time I visit that range.
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Old 01-04-2010, 2:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I had a gun fall out of a new whiz-bang holster and go off when the muzzle hit the cement.
I never used that holster again.

The 9mm lead bullet left a nice little 2" diameter reminder in the cement that I see every time I visit that range.
I think that is just one of the reasons most ranges don't allow the use of holsters.
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Old 01-04-2010, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I had a gun fall out of a new whiz-bang holster and go off when the muzzle hit the cement.
I never used that holster again.

The 9mm lead bullet left a nice little 2" diameter reminder in the cement that I see every time I visit that range.
What gun discharged when it hit the ground?
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Old 01-04-2010, 3:00 PM
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What gun discharged when it hit the ground?
A race glock with no firing pin block.

The thing is that the gun could have hit the ground in ANY other direction and it would not have fired.
The mass of the firing pin when the gun lands on the muzzle was enough to set the primer off.
Now the gun has a lightweight firing pin.
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Old 01-04-2010, 3:08 PM
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Many of you count on me for a regular diet of stupid questions and I won't dissapoint you this thread either. Query: Why was a round even in the chamber?
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Old 01-04-2010, 4:00 PM
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Query: Why was a round even in the chamber?
At the beginning of a course of fire in a match.
The start position was leaning over, hands on the bedframe.
So I leaned over, the gun rolled out of the holster, hit the floor and went off.
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Old 01-04-2010, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Oh absolutely.
It's one of those "if I knew then what I know now" things.

Like I said... I have constant ringing... too many years of gunfire, rock and roll, and motorcycles (and I still refuse to wear plugs when riding).
all the years of shooting firearms with no ear protection, loud motorcycles and rock n roll caught up with me, I wear a hearing aid in my left ear and I have a Cochlear Implant in my right ear...........if I only knew then what I know now............
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Old 01-04-2010, 5:01 PM
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all the years of shooting firearms with no ear protection, loud motorcycles and rock n roll caught up with me, I wear a hearing aid in my left ear and I have a Cochlear Implant in my right ear...........if I only knew then what I know now............
My time is coming. I'm deaf in one ear, but it wasn't due to sound level damage. The House group referred to it as "sudden deafness syndrome"... happened when I was around 12 or 13. They said it happens to about 1 out of every 10,000. Literally woke up one morning and the ear was dead.
At the time, there were no surgical options. I don't know if an implant would work or not... or if it would be worth it.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-04-2010, 5:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
At the beginning of a course of fire in a match.
The start position was leaning over, hands on the bedframe.
So I leaned over, the gun rolled out of the holster, hit the floor and went off.
Damn that would've caused a code brown. I bet you could hear a fly fart after that one......
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Old 01-04-2010, 5:03 PM
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Glad to hear no one was hit. I've had an Odd-6 go off about 12'' from my face years ago.
It's something that I'll never forget and the memory will never go away. It makes you more aware around others and yourself while handling with one up the pipe. Everyone's gtg except the piggy. good show! -g
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Old 01-04-2010, 7:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormfeather View Post
As the others have said, glad that everyone is safe, and yes, ND's happen, even to the best of us, Instructors, Soldiers, Law Enforcement, and Regular Joes alike.
I agree....
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  #33  
Old 01-04-2010, 8:41 PM
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lol my friend with his new 44LC was about 1" from blowing his foot off. had it in his holster and was drawing and this thing has a hair trigger that went off. he frooze i nearly **** my pants, being a few ft away and no ear protection on. we looked you could see the edge of the crater was right by the ball of his heels.
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Old 01-05-2010, 6:02 AM
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Interesting timing. I'm working out on the East Coast and I shoot matches at the local range. They're one of the very few that allow you to practice from the holster. Well, sooner or later...

"Accidental Discharge
Sunday, January 3, 2010
On Sunday evening a Member of the Silver Eagle Group sustained an injury to his leg and foot when he accidentally discharged his firearm while holstering it on the range. The SEG Team immediately administered first aid to the injured party, rendered all ranges safe and had the Member transported to the emergency room. It is anticipated that he will make a full recovery. In an effort to safeguard his privacy, SEG is not releasing the name of the injured Member.
We would like to remind all shooters the importance of safe handling techniques and proper firearm maintenance.
Thanks and safe shooting,
The Silver Eagle Group Team"
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Old 01-05-2010, 8:28 AM
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^^^ AD or ND?

Something similar happened to the guy that runs the USPSA matches down in Norco. The guy that runs the matches. Be ever diligent, boys.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:27 AM
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My first and only ND happened when I was about thirteen. I had a new BB gun and stuck my finger in front of the barrel to feel the air. Unfortunately it had a BB loaded (I thought it was unloaded). The BB penetrated my finger down to the bone, and after my Dad tried extracting it with a kitchen knife (yes, really) he took me to the hospital. I still have the scar over 40 years later. I learned that lesson early, the hard way. At least it was a BB gun.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
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^^^ AD or ND?
There's no such thing as an AD.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:46 AM
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I beg to differ. I nearly blew my hand off when a Makarov went full auto on me after I simply slapped a magazine in. Turns out, cosmoline glued the firing pin in the forward position, and Mak slide locks are notoriously weak.
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  #39  
Old 01-05-2010, 12:37 PM
macadamizer macadamizer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBam-31 View Post
So I told him it was a great lesson learned. That it happens to ALL of us, not just noobs. That, like motorcycle riders, there are only two types: the ones that have, and the ones that will. That's why there are FOUR rules, not three, not two. Fortunately, the muzzle was pointed downward. No harm done, small price to pay for a very important reminder.
If you believe this, really believe this, then it doesn't sound like the lesson sank in at all. It doesn't happen to everyone, either with ND or motorcycles. It can happen to anyone, but saying that its inevitable is simply cop-out. If it's inevitable, if it "happens to everyone" eventually, then it wasn't really negligence on your part, it was just bound to happen. That's what it sounds like you are saying when you say something like this.

The problem with assuming that an ND -- or motorcycle crash -- is inevitable is that if it does happen to you, you may not really reflect on what lead up to the ND or crash, because it was bound to happen eventually. That, and it's not really fair to those who haven't had an ND or a crash because they've been careful to avoid them...

Just my $0.02, for what it's worth.
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  #40  
Old 01-05-2010, 12:42 PM
HCz HCz is offline
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ok, admit it - you were the one who did it right?

Just kidding.
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