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  #1  
Old 07-09-2016, 9:19 AM
John Henry John Henry is offline
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Default Buy supplies first?

With all the proposed legislation in progress, especially regarding ammo, I'm seriously thinking of reloading. Because of work and family agendas I can't go the full Monty now with obtaining the manuals, equipment and supplies and start reloading. What I am thinking of implementing is a "buying program" of all the components-cases, bullets, powder and primers-with the logic being that the next logical step for the legislative jack holes would be extending ammo laws to reloading supplies.
I would buy manuals to help determine which brand of components would be the most generic so I wouldn't have stuff that I couldn't use when I actually start reloading. I will start with 9 m but will eventually do 45 ACP, .357 magnum, .38 special and .223. Any comments or suggestions?
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  #2  
Old 07-09-2016, 10:02 AM
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http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/node

Here is a bunch of data from a big powder company.

For pistol the universal powders I like are hp-38 which is the same as winchester 231, and red dot, which is a shotgun powder. There are others but I don't use them much. These two can be used for many different bullets and cartridges and even work in rifles for light plinking loads (lever action or bolt action).

Titegroup is one that I use, but I don't like it much. It is very fast and it only takes a small amount. It would be too easy to get a double charge of powder and not notice, even for a more experienced person.

Herco is another shotgun powder but I like it better for light rifle loads than pistol. Accurate #2 or #5 have a good amount of data and I think #5 is more universal, IIRC.

h335 is what 223/5.56 was developed with and it works in other rifle cases as well. Win 748 should be very similar and is popular, but I have not tried it yet, although I picked it up for that reason. These powders are ball type and flow easily into cases. I use magnum primers with 335. IMR 4895 and H 4895 are very universal rifle powders, but it is stick/pencil lead shaped and sucks to put into 223 cases. It is better for 30 cal rifles. I haven't seen mag primers listed for 4895. It can be used for the M1 Garand and you can make reduced rifle loads. In my 30-06, a reduced load is still powerful, but it doesn't beat up the shooter as much (bolt gun).

The first pistol powders will work in 357mag, 44 mag, 460 mag, etc., but you won't get full power loads because the powder burns too fast. Win 296 is the same as H-110 (verify this for yourself and use data from a book) and they are common magnum pistol powders. You may need magnum primers with this powder and I use mags since my books call for it.

TC or truncated cone bullets work great in autos. I buy 9mm 124 moly coated lead bullets for $60/1000 and they are not sticky with lube. Round nose is good as well and semi wad-cutters can cause problems in some guns. I like to buy in large quantities or get the same product over and over, so I don't have to work up a new load. When you change the bullet or powder, you will need to work up a new load and figure out the length of the round for your gun.

Lead bullets work great and I use them in competition. Moly lead is even better because the sticky lube (on lead) doesn't gum up the gun. Moly is a dry slippery lube that can leave your hands black. copper plated is not bad, but usually you can't push them too fast so they could be iffy in a rifle or real hot magnum. For light mag and rifle loads they are good and for 9, 40, 45, 38spl, they are good. Jacketed is fine, but the most expensive.

Start with a single stage press since it will be cheap and learn to load now instead of waiting for more laws or the crap to hit the fan. It will make more sense once you start doing it. Stilly, on calguns, has some good info for beginners and using Lee presses which don't break the bank. You can wait until later to pull the handle on a $2300 black press.

Ok, I have to go. I just saved you hours of research, unless you already knew all that. Check out Castboolits forum. It is great for reloading info. Calguns is just the tip of the iceberg compared to castboolits.
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  #3  
Old 07-09-2016, 3:35 PM
Jmoreno88 Jmoreno88 is online now
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get primers and powders first and asap. Get a good powder that will do multiple calibers. I use bullseye and titegroup in a few calibers and cfe 223 for my rifle but honestly i would pretty much get any powder that's in Stock for a good price that i can use

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  #4  
Old 07-09-2016, 3:40 PM
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Primers and powder, lots of it. If necessary, you can cast handgun projectiles.

Im on a 4 k per component binge, have been for a while and im not stopping.
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Old 07-09-2016, 8:49 PM
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I would start with a Lee hand loader . About 35 dollars

http://www.ebay.com/itm/90254-Classi...cAAOSwvFZW8ala

Then a pound of powder . I used to use HP-38 - I have switched to CFE pistol
At least a box of primers = 100 - maybe 5 dollars
Then the bullets - shipping will generally cost more than the bullets .
Start saving your cases
When I was hunting , I carried a lee hand loader in truck - [ Everything fit in a 6 pack cooler ] High / windy , brush , distance all take / need different loads and weights of bullets .
A word of advise , the Lee hand loader comes with a scope for powder . Buy the Lee hand loader 1st and read instructions for which powder to buy .
Remember , lots of others are thinking like you and the Lee hand loader will start to cost more .
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  #6  
Old 07-10-2016, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyjr View Post
When I was hunting , I carried a lee hand loader in truck - High / windy , brush , distance all take / need different loads and weights of bullets
Care to explain this in a little more detail as to why different conditions require different loads?

And if this process took place while you were hunting, how would you check the zero of the different loads?
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  #7  
Old 07-10-2016, 7:13 AM
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Everything is going to be fine, don't worry about it, and for god sakes don't start buying supplies. But if you do get stuff for the expensive ammo on the shelf first. Then stock up on store bought ammo for what you shoot the most so you'll have brass. If you're going to start reloading you might as well reload for the most expensive calibers first. As far as hunting goes you just need range time to find what works for your gun. I use a Lee hand press and love it but will hopefully get something a little faster soon but it's a great tool to learn on and may come in handy at the range or in the field latter, good luck
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  #8  
Old 07-10-2016, 7:15 AM
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If you're near the Monterey area you can try my hand press out
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  #9  
Old 07-10-2016, 7:52 AM
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In the past 50 years the price on primers cases bullets and powder has only gone up.
Anything you buy today will only go up in value and if Hillary gets elected you might become a rich man selling your supplies.
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  #10  
Old 07-10-2016, 8:11 AM
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Gasman
clam - no wind rain Minimum powder ,
Raining / windy Max load
Lots of brush - heaviest bullet at max load .
At that time deer and pig season over lapped .
The / at least my 270 was a flat shooter to
around 50 yards and knowing your rifle and loads
You know to either aim high , low , left or right .
shooting into a ravine or up a ridge only comes
from a lot of practice . I zero in rifle / scope at 50
yards - get to where I am going to hunt , pace off
50 steps and check zero-ing . Most of time I set up
camp in a ravine or camp already in ravine so I
know where bullet will stop .
Now a days , I just use the lee loaders for case and
Cartridge checking for OAL . I had both knees
replaced , too many sound shooters and not that
many places to hunt at anymore .
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  #11  
Old 07-10-2016, 12:44 PM
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WHAT?
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  #12  
Old 07-10-2016, 3:31 PM
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Youtube different reloading presses to get an idea of what you may like. The lee hand loaders are great and I have a few, but they do not like fmj pistol bullets and work much better on lead projectiles. I actually load allot on my lee hand press in the field. My go to press is the lee classic turret press. As to your original question, load up on components through powdervalley if you can afford it. I like titegroup for pistol and h335 or blc-2 for rifle because both cover 223 and 308.
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Old 07-10-2016, 6:00 PM
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I think your idea to pick up some supplies is a good one.

Win 231 and CFE223 are the powders I stick to. I've been buying CCI primers in the past, but recently I bought some Seller and Bellot primers because the price was good.
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Old 07-10-2016, 7:11 PM
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Powders and Primers. Then Bullets, then Commercial ammo for the Brass. If you shoot 22lr, get that ammo asap.

If I were only able to have two powders they both would be Winchester.

W231 for Pistols and W748 for my Rifles. Not the best choice for all, but works in all the calibers I load and shoot.

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NEED LEAD?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1218081
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Old 07-10-2016, 9:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyjr View Post
Gasman
clam - no wind rain Minimum powder ,
Raining / windy Max load
Lots of brush - heaviest bullet at max load .
At that time deer and pig season over lapped .
The / at least my 270 was a flat shooter to
around 50 yards and knowing your rifle and loads
You know to either aim high , low , left or right .
shooting into a ravine or up a ridge only comes
from a lot of practice . I zero in rifle / scope at 50
yards - get to where I am going to hunt , pace off
50 steps and check zero-ing . Most of time I set up
camp in a ravine or camp already in ravine so I
know where bullet will stop .
Now a days , I just use the lee loaders for case and
Cartridge checking for OAL . I had both knees
replaced , too many sound shooters and not that
many places to hunt at anymore .
Seems legit
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The 270 is actually built on an action that's halfway in between a Medium and a Large - a "Marge".

Kind of like Bruce Jenner, but the rifle still has a bolt.
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Old 07-11-2016, 8:33 AM
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As everyone mentioned, get powder, primers, and projectiles. Save the brass from store bought ammo. Keep in mind, there is a limit on powder that can be stored in a home.
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Old 07-14-2016, 2:26 PM
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John Henry here: I want to thank you all for your excellent info. It always amazes me when I read all the different posts, how knowledgable CalGunners are!
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Old 07-14-2016, 3:14 PM
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Ok I will bite...

First just go buy a Lee Challenger press kit, it will literally have everything you need to get loading except for dies, and will load anything you need to load.

http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/423...sVGhoCQWDw_wcB

Second, I like to buy paper manuals and books, but honestly Hodgdon, Hornady etc. have load data up online so that is NOT something I would start out buying.

Next, buy components as you can afford it and they are available. Powder-coated bullets are popular for practice and competition, but I have not bought lead bullets in over 15 years and see no reason why I would in the foreseable future. If you shoot a Glock or other poly rifled barrel you wont be shooting lead anyway. All that said, for plinking, practice etc. for fresh reloaders just buy plated copper bullets and get to it, you can learn all about poly bullets etc. later after you have the basics down. Berrys and Etreme are good brands to start with.

For 9mm etc. I have been using CFE Pistol. Its clean, easy to meter, and most importantly, available.

For .223 I use, oddly, CFE 223, for the same reasons above.

I have 748, 4063, titegroup, power pistol, etc etc but Those powders above are the easiest for new loaders to find and use IMHO.

For primers I have been using Winchester primers the most lately, but I have primers from Wolf, Fiocchi, CCI, etc. and they all have a purpose. For long range 5.56 loads I use Wolf or Federal Gold Medal Match primers, for blaster match ammo I use Winchester, Federal 205's, CCI, or Winchester primers. For pistol ammo I pretty much only use Winchester primers and occasionally Federal Gold Medal Match.
Not telling a grown man what to do but if I were you I would buy a small sample of each and see what you and your guns like before buying huge amounts.
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Old 07-14-2016, 3:17 PM
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To OP, I bought and stocked supplies ( powder, primers, bullets) years before I bought my reloading setup. I was a brass scavenger (still am) and had a bunch squirreled away. You are correct, with current legislation, you are smart to stock up. And if you never use it, you can always offload it to one of us schmucks. Haha

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Old 07-14-2016, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyjr View Post
I would start with a Lee hand loader . About 35 dollars

http://www.ebay.com/itm/90254-Classi...cAAOSwvFZW8ala

Then a pound of powder . I used to use HP-38 - I have switched to CFE pistol
At least a box of primers = 100 - maybe 5 dollars
Then the bullets - shipping will generally cost more than the bullets .
Start saving your cases
When I was hunting , I carried a lee hand loader in truck - [ Everything fit in a 6 pack cooler ] High / windy , brush , distance all take / need different loads and weights of bullets .
A word of advise , the Lee hand loader comes with a scope for powder . Buy the Lee hand loader 1st and read instructions for which powder to buy .
Remember , lots of others are thinking like you and the Lee hand loader will start to cost more .
I have a Lee hand loader and its the absolute last thing I would buy to actually load ammo on, especially starting out. Its a great thing to have in a SHTF crate or as a back in a drawer in case your actual press goes down, but man that thing would literally SUCK to load even 50 .223's on. I could see maybe loading 50 or 100 pistol rounds on it sitting at my desk, but thats about it.
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Old 07-14-2016, 4:44 PM
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I have the Lee hand loader for every caliber I have . They are adjustable and great for teaching = like primer depth , OAL , use of a scale instead oh a scoop - etc .
I got started with a Lee hand loader - 45 ACP . Then the 270 for hunting .
Next was for the 50 AE [ they don't sell anymore or the 50 S&W ]
As I got the 30 carbine , I decided to get a press - only one in stock thet held 5 dies was the Lee load master and it was a return ,
Now the only caliber I don't have is the 223 - I just got a set of 2 dies and ordered the 4 die carbide set . No one ub family has a 223 YET .
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Old 07-14-2016, 4:47 PM
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I started a dros in Camarillo today and while there a guy bought 5 pounds of pwder and couple thousand primers getting stocked up.
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Old 07-14-2016, 5:07 PM
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Without testing, you have no idea which bullets or powders will be accurate in your guns. So, do you know what bullets and powder to buy?
You may want to stock up on ammunition that you already know and like.
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Old 07-14-2016, 5:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyjr View Post
I have the Lee hand loader for every caliber I have . They are adjustable and great for teaching = like primer depth , OAL , use of a scale instead oh a scoop - etc .
I got started with a Lee hand loader - 45 ACP . Then the 270 for hunting .
Next was for the 50 AE [ they don't sell anymore or the 50 S&W ]
As I got the 30 carbine , I decided to get a press - only one in stock thet held 5 dies was the Lee load master and it was a return ,
Now the only caliber I don't have is the 223 - I just got a set of 2 dies and ordered the 4 die carbide set . No one ub family has a 223 YET .
A lee hand press does not help teach:

Primer depth, because you would need to hand-prime
COL, because the press doesnt set that, the die does, and any press will work for that. What does help with COL is a decent set of calipers.
A press has nothing to do with a powder scale vs a scoop.

I started reloading the WRONG way, by buying each individual pieces some jackass at a gun shop swore I needed. I ended up spending a lot and working pretty hard for each loaded round. Bought a bunch of powder which sucked for everything I was trying to load, again on the advice of someone who sold stuff but obviously did not use the stuff. I got pretty frustrated and sold most of the gear during a yard sale.
A friend of mine saved me by suggesting to get the Lee Anniversary "kit" for 100 bucks and the rest is history. I only needed to buy a set of dies, a caliper, and a few other minor items and I was loading up solid ammo.
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Old 07-14-2016, 5:32 PM
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Find yourself a 4-pound keg of Titegroup powder, 7000 CCI or Federal small pistol primers, and a few thousand each of Xtreme plated bullets in 9 and 38. Titegroup works fine in .38 spl and 9mm. You can start re-loading with a cheapie Lee press, a set of RCBS 9mm dies, a Harbor Freight tumbler, a balance and digital micrometer for under $250 and get started NOW. When you upgrade the press, you'll still use the ol' Lee press. No money wasted. You Can then add dies and other components as you can afford them.
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Old 07-14-2016, 6:13 PM
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dwalker
Primer depth, because you would need to hand-prime
Different primers seat differently and the Lee loader does hand prime
COL, because the press doesn't set that, the die does, and any press will work for that.
Maybe your dies are preset - I reset mine every reload session .

What does help with COL is a decent set of calipers.
on the hand loader you set the OAL - a decent set of calipers. doesn't set OAL , just checks it

A press has nothing to do with a powder scale vs a scoop.
You learn the scoop measures by volume - a scale by weight - the scoop you get is for one / maybe 3 or 4 powders
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Old 07-14-2016, 7:14 PM
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I think people are confusing the LEE HAND LOADER which loads 1 specific caliber start to finish including primer seating, and the LEE HAND PRESS which is a portable press that takes dies and does everything a bench mounted single stage press would do including seats primers.
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Old 07-14-2016, 7:25 PM
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Pony up for the Dillon 650. Buy once, cry once.
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Old 07-14-2016, 7:29 PM
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I am talking abut the hand press, which is
\http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/665...l9KhoCiWbw_wcB

I would really never consider the "hand loader" these days with a complete press kit being so inexpensive.

http://leeprecision.com/lee-loader-9mm-luger.html
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Old 07-14-2016, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Henry View Post
With all the proposed legislation in progress, especially regarding ammo, I'm seriously thinking of reloading. Because of work and family agendas I can't go the full Monty now with obtaining the manuals, equipment and supplies and start reloading. What I am thinking of implementing is a "buying program" of all the components-cases, bullets, powder and primers-with the logic being that the next logical step for the legislative jack holes would be extending ammo laws to reloading supplies.
I would buy manuals to help determine which brand of components would be the most generic so I wouldn't have stuff that I couldn't use when I actually start reloading. I will start with 9 m but will eventually do 45 ACP, .357 magnum, .38 special and .223. Any comments or suggestions?
OP, with the permits and no talk of restrictions on reloading so far, it will now be mandatory to reload. Based on the cartridges you mentioned, it seems like you are mostly a handgun shooter with some .223. You should get a progressive press for those cartridges; a Dillon 650 would be a good choice, but like you said, you do need components.

As someone mentioned, go get yourself a keg of HP38 while it is in stock. It was out of stock a long time, but it's probably the most common pistol propellent out there. I say an 8 lb keg, at a minimum, probably two would be better since it's kind of a pain to have multiple handgun powders as you'll want your batches to shoot uniformly.

Given the hazmat fees, stock up with one good order of powder and primers to minimize the hazmat charges with bulk.
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