[stan]

Hey everyone - this story is a little long but I feel its best that way. This is the EPIC SAGA of Orange County Sheriff's Deputy J. Finley, a reserve SWAT officer, and overall d-bag, seizing my AR-15 and how I was helped getting it back.

At 16:40 on 11-3-09, I was driving my car down Santa Margarita Parkway in Rancho Santa Margarita. A black police interceptor nearly hit my right front corner while he was changing lanes, and then braked hard and got behind me at the left turn light. I immediately got off my cell phone at that point. The police interceptor turned on its flashing lights, and I pulled over on a side street. I was then contacted by Deputy J. Finley of OCSD's Rancho Santa Margarita Police Services. He's a reserve S.W.A.T. officer and was in a black unmarked car.

From the very beginning of the stop, at 16:45, Finley was rude, suspicious, and seemed to be almost angry with me. I'm 20 years old, and have long hair. He asked me if there was any "guns, drugs, knives" etc in the car, to which i flatly responded "There is nothing illegal in the car sir." He then claimed to smell marijuana (this was quite obviously a lie), and pointed out a sandwich bag (yes, a sandwich bag) on my floor. I showed him it was empty, and smelled like FOOD (imagine that!) but at this point he had made up his mind.

Finley ordered my passenger and I to step out of the vehicle. At this point due to the fact that I am on informal probation for a misdemeanor, backup came and a search of my car commenced. When Finley made his way to the trunk, I informed him that I had my rifle in a range bag, unloaded in the trunk. He removed my rifle, a Stag Arms lower with a flat top upper and 10/30 pmag magazine locked in with a BULLET BUTTON. It was like someone had just rained guns and drugs from the great impound locker in the sky. Finley continued to search the car, finding my incomplete AK-47 build, some bulk 7.62 ammunition, and other random junk. Every time he found another gun related item, he would hold it up and look at me like I had killed his sister, cat, and broken his bicycle. He continued hassling me about where I got the bullets and what was I doing with "all this stuff". He set the rifle down on the trunk of his car during the search, and left the muzzle pointed straight at me. Since childhood, I was trained to treat all guns as loaded, and being in that position put me into a state of extreme panic and anxiety. I was treated like a second class citizen at best, but more just plain like a criminal.

I attempted to explain to Deputy Finley the legal definition of fixed magazine, and how my bullet button only allowed the magazine to be removed with a tool, which met the DOJ's and law's standards. In hindsight I should have had a more snarky remark for him removing the magazine with something on his belt loop. Finley repeatedly yelled in my face, and at one point slammed his voice recorder violently on the trunk of his car, shouting that "EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS BEING ****ING RECORDED". He also claimed that legislation had been passed outlawing bullet buttons, and that he knew this because two of his cases were what made that happen. He then told me a bullet is not a tool, and that I was in possession of an assault weapon. I was given a receipt for my rifle, ammunition, and magazines, and charged with no crime. Finley also gave me false information about how I could contest the seizure, told me that I absolutely would never be getting back my rifle, and that I would be receiving a call within a week or so regarding criminal charges.


Immediately after the whole fiasco, I went to OC Armory and spoke with Mike Penhall, the owner. This is where I have gone for all my OLL needs, and with good reason. Mike was extremely helpful, and directed me to contact Bill Wiese and / or Gene Hoffman at the Calguns Foundation. Already having been a member of calguns.net forums since April of 2008, I pm'd Gene and Bill, who got back in contact with me within a few hours. Bill then had one of the foundation's lawyers, Jason Davis, give me a call that very evening. I was thoroughly impressed, within a couple hours of my initial contact I was already speaking to an attorney. Jason was really awesome, he was articulate and seemed to know exactly what needed to be done. I went from freaked out and upset, to confident and calm.

Other than answering questions here and there, I was relieved of the issue at that point. Jason was constantly in contact by both e-mail and phone. He spoke with Mike at OC Armory, made calls to various divisions of OCSD, and even talked to Deputy Finley. The conversation with Finley was humorous from what I heard of it, and I was really amazed at how Mr. Davis handled the matter. I can only imagine the amount of time spent on my case, getting the run around on an issue that never should have happened. I would have been totally lost, and probably would never have received my rifle back if it were not for the help I received.

I had to submit the Law Enforcement Gun Release (LEGR) application to the DOJ, which cost me $20 or so, and after several weeks I got a letter back verifying that I was not a prohibited person. This morning I went to the property room of the OCSD in Santa Ana and was reunited with my beautiful tool. Unfortunately, their policy is not to return ammunition with the rifle, and since it was 25 rounds, I decided that it was going to be too costly to take the time to come get it another time.

I do not know the details, but my understanding is that OCSD did not have a policy on OLLs / bullet buttons, and my rifle was supposedly the first one of its kind that they seized. I believe they have decided to use the AW Flowchart, and I think that because of my case, and the help I was so graciously given, people in Orange County with bullet buttons may just be a little better off now.

What I really was awed by was how CGF and Jason Davis handled the whole matter. I'm a paralegal and studying law, and lawyers do not come cheap, nor is their work easy. The fact that the foundation supported my case and provided me with counsel, without having ever met me was really great. It goes to show that the money people donate really does go to a good cause. Jason is an asset to our community both as an attorney, and a fellow gun owner, and CGF makes it possible for people like me to be aided by people like Jason when the gun grabbers attack.
-Stan.

Edit by artherd:

A quick note from Ben Cannon, Treasurer of CGF.

Stan, Your story just went out on CGNN. I had long hair as a kid too. Turns out, it's not a crime.

Guys, this is what we do here at CGF, day in day out. Most stories never see the light of day, yet we spend thousands teaching District Attorneys the law. Freedom is NOT free, please think about making a donation to CGF:

[oaklander]

Glad that CGF could be of service!!!

Woot!

[ke6guj]

did he originally seize both rifles, or just the Stag?

[Roadrunner]

yeah, things like this keep reminding me why i left urbania. btw, congratulations on getting your rifle back.

[hoffmang]

These incidents are both becoming more rare and are resolving much more quickly than they have in the past. These are trends we like!

Congrats on being reunited with your firearm.

-Gene

[psssniper]

IIRC Finley is the douche that made one of the first OLL "busts" in Orange county and it happened to a friend of mine. Guess what? All charges dropped. And this idiots still trying to hassle us? My brother works for OCSD so I'm not just LEO bashing here, Finley is an idiot first class.

[Seesm]

I have never met face to face any of the "big guys" YET.. But I am very impressed with the info they give to us. To teach us to be smarter about what we legally CAN do...

The antis want to confuse it all so we are scared and do not do wha t we want and know is legal.

I love this place and I am greatful for you Op that you were helped so professionally by the CGF.

Hurray for Bill, Gene and ALL the rest. THANKS!!

BTW Pretty pumped that maybe Officer Findley learned something about OLL's FUNNY... Hope he is niceer to the "next" OLL owner...

[hamster]

Horray CGF!

[gose]

http://blog.ocsd.org/post/2009/11/09...y-Efforts.aspx

[Trench Broom]

Definetly good news! Glad everything worked out.

[NorCalMama]

Sooo, if you weren't being charged with any crime, how did he justify confiscating your stuff?????

He then told me a bullet is not a tool, and that I was in possession of an assault weapon. I was given a receipt for my rifle, ammunition, and magazines, and charged with no crime.

Glad it worked out at least!

[Vanguard]

Sweet! Good job CGF!

I'm glad you got your rifle back, Stan. It also sounds like officer Finley got a little bit of an education.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Originally Posted by Seesm

BTW Pretty pumped that maybe Officer Findley learned something about OLL's FUNNY... Hope he is niceer to the "next" OLL owner...

I don't know. It seems that whenever one of his OLL busts gets thrown out, Officer Findley interprets that to mean that he has single handedly created a new law banning OLLs.

[Liberty1]

Good show! I've always known my donations to CGF are put to good use getting real tangible results but it is always great to hear about the individuals supported and defended!!!!

Some of these super cops (ya even those of us who have to work with them don't like them) will some day meet Mr. 1983 to good effect I'm sure.

[wildhawker]

Fantastic- another win for the RKBA and CGF!

[toopercentmlk]

That you CGF, stories like this don't just help the individual in need but also instills confidence to everyone else who notices.

[hoffmang]

Originally Posted by Liberty1

Some of these super cops (ya even those of us who have to work with them don't like them) will some day meet Mr. 1983 to good effect I'm sure.

-Gene

[ChrisO]

That's awesome! I am glad you got you're rifle back bud! I am so glad to be a member here on Calguns, CGF is a beautiful thing good job all you guys over at GCF keep up the good work!

[NiteQwill]

I remember the initial thread about this.

I'm glad it all worked out.

Another reason folks should donate to the CGF.

[Digital_Boy]

Kudos to CGF for getting your property returned. However, given this Finley characters history, I sincerely doubt he's changed his tune regarding OLLs. It'd be very illuminating if any calguns members (or friends thereof) who've had dealings with him could contact the powers that be and get a paper trail going to establish a pattern of disregard for CA state law on the part of Deputy Finley, and take that to his superiors. Maybe a black mark in his record is the only thing that will cause him to modify his behavior and treatment of law abiding gun owners.

[bigcalidave]

Well, great results! I'm glad this all worked out without too much hassle, and you never even had to go to jail!

[Liberty1]

Originally Posted by hoffmang

-Gene

and I'll raise you a double , nudge nudge, say no more say no more...wicked!

[jdberger]

Yipee for CGF!

[jdberger]

Originally Posted by gose

http://blog.ocsd.org/post/2009/11/09...y-Efforts.aspx

Nice - kid got an award for stifling free speech too.

What a guy...

[caoboy]

Glad you got your EBR back!

If you haven't I'd say you should file a complaint against him.

[wikidklown]

Wow, simply an amazing story from a lawful citizen harrassed by someone we pay to protect and serve us....
Congrats on getting your stuff back and kudos to CGF, Bill, and Gene.

[battleship]

Fantastic news and a pleasure to read.

So this Finley character basically lied to you in order to seize your rifles, isn't that illegal in its self.

There has to be some sort of reprimand for such actions, surely.

Anyway its nice to know we have great and wize people on our side.

[PatriotnMore]

Don't know how I missed this story, but a big thanks to CGF, Jason Davis, and all here who worked in support of Stan, and our rights.

Without the legal efforts we have from CGF, the legal staff, ect.... I am sure this would have been a different story. Let's remember to continue to financially support CGF whenever possible.

[stan]

Originally Posted by PatriotnMore

Don't know how I missed this story, but a big thanks to CGF, Jason Davis, and all here who worked in support of Stan, and our rights.

Without the legal efforts we have from CGF, the legal staff, ect.... I am sure this would have been a different story. Let's remember to continue to financially support CGF whenever possible.

seriously!

i didn't really understand much about CGF before, and to a lot of people they may just appear to be an organization. in reality, they are there when people like you and i have problems. CGF has shown me that they will rise to the occasion when california gun owners have trouble. When I have some money to spare, I definitely plan to donate. i've experienced firsthand what donations to CGF are used for. thanks to them, orange county OLL owners can feel confident in their bullet buttons and the fact that OCSD knows now what they are and that they are legal.

[PatriotnMore]

You also may want to consider volunteering some of your time in legal help as I read you are, or are becoming a Para Legal, just a thought.

Originally Posted by stan

seriously!

i didn't really understand much about CGF before, and to a lot of people they may just appear to be an organization. in reality, they are there when people like you and i have problems. CGF has shown me that they will rise to the occasion when california gun owners have trouble. When I have some money to spare, I definitely plan to donate. i've experienced firsthand what donations to CGF are used for. thanks to them, orange county OLL owners can feel confident in their bullet buttons and the fact that OCSD knows now what they are and that they are legal.

[GrizzlyGuy]

That's awesome, and the story triggered me to send in another donation to CGF. Keep up the good work guys!

[WeekendWarrior]

Congrats! Calguns is such a great community, i am so happy and proud to be a part of it!

[RRangel]

It's great that it worked out as it should. This event is but another example of poor service and violation of rights from those that are supossed to be dealing with real criminals instead of harassing gunowners.

As far as I'm concerned what officer Findley did amounts to theft under color of law.

[nikonuser]

It is good to know that BB equipped OLLs are not getting confiscated and owners not getting thrown into jail. This type of cases definitely proves the legality of owning BB equipped OLLs in RPK. Thanks to all the founding fathers of CGN in protecting the 2A rights of RPK citizens.

[KaHuNaZ]

wow. what a cool story. props to CGN! Glad to hear everything worked out okay!

[The Director]

CGF Rules!

I would file a complaint.....that douche can't just yell at you and swear....that's total BS.

[WokMaster1]

OP was pulled over by an ummarked car. I thought that was a no-no in CA. Or was was OP in McFinley county?

[Ronco]

Great Story!

Just contributed to CGF.

My first time using GunPal.

Everyone should try it.

[Untamed1972]

Originally Posted by psssniper

IIRC Finley is the douche that made one of the first OLL "busts" in Orange county and it happened to a friend of mine. Guess what? All charges dropped. And this idiots still trying to hassle us? My brother works for OCSD so I'm not just LEO bashing here, Finley is an idiot first class.

Perhaps it's time for someone to file a complaint against this deputy if he is still out there stomping all over people's rights and acting unprofessionally?

[Digital_Boy]

Originally Posted by Untamed1972

Perhaps it's time for someone to file a complaint against this deputy if he is still out there stomping all over people's rights and acting unprofessionally?

Yep. The OP mentioned that another calgunner had a similar run in with Deputy Finley, with a similar outcome: property returned after jumping through hoops, no charges filed. They can't be the only two to have run afoul of this guy. Putting paper in his jacket will get his attention. Maybe his lieutenant will get so tired of taking complaints that he'll reassign him to some other duty where he can't be a pain in the keester to the public.