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  #1  
Old 11-27-2009, 8:36 AM
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Default School me about serial numbers in photos.

I've noticed some people make sure to obscure the serial numbers of their firearm in photos, why is that exactly?
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2009, 8:38 AM
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Privacy.
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2009, 8:53 AM
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I do it and it's just for privacy.

Is it unfounded, probably, but I still do it.
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Old 11-27-2009, 8:58 AM
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The serial number on a pistol or a registered AW is registered to you.
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Old 11-27-2009, 9:50 AM
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It's no different that blurring out license plate numbers on vehicles.
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki wiki View Post
I've noticed some people make sure to obscure the serial numbers of their firearm in photos, why is that exactly?
All my S&W wheel guns have custom grips that cover the serial number. Must piss off cops doing 12031 checks. Oh, well.
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2009, 10:30 PM
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All kinds of reasons.

You post a photo of a rifle (no DOJ record) and I can read the serial number.
I call and report it stolen... then a few days later, I call the PD back and tell them "Hey, I just found my rifle over here on www.whatever.com!"
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2009, 10:55 PM
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2009, 8:21 AM
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I don't think anyone is going to steal your serial number of your gun.

Show it off man!!!
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2009, 9:35 AM
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Quote:
You post a photo of a rifle (no DOJ record) and I can read the serial number.
I call and report it stolen... then a few days later, I call the PD back and tell them "Hey, I just found my rifle over here on www.whatever.com!"
Then the PD contacts the ATF who does a forward trace and determines that you filed a false report and that you were trying to steal someones elses rifle dohhhhhhh
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  #11  
Old 11-28-2009, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by psssniper View Post
Then the PD contacts the ATF who does a forward trace and determines that you filed a false report and that you were trying to steal someones elses rifle dohhhhhhh
There's an aweful lot of guns out there legally with no paper trail.

No paper is a two edged sword. We like it because it reduces traceability for when "they come for our guns". It also means no liability in the event of theft should the thief use it in a crime.
It also means that it's less likely to be returned to it's rightful owner.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #12  
Old 11-28-2009, 12:17 PM
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I asked this question a while ago and noone was able to provide an instance where anything bad happened because someone got their sn.
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  #13  
Old 11-28-2009, 5:38 PM
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better safe than sorry.

I had posted a picture of my Camaro on a site I frequent. A few months later a guy comes up to my house and ask if I'd sell my Camaro. I asked how he knew that I had a Camaro cause its always in my garage. He said he had read my post, saw my pictures and had a friend at DMV look up the plate. Along with my address. Scary stuff.

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  #14  
Old 11-28-2009, 8:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Lobber View Post
All my S&W wheel guns have custom grips that cover the serial number. Must piss off cops doing 12031 checks. Oh, well.
You can go to jail covering the S.N. Be Careful!
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  #15  
Old 11-29-2009, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Vinz View Post
better safe than sorry.

I had posted a picture of my Camaro on a site I frequent. A few months later a guy comes up to my house and ask if I'd sell my Camaro. I asked how he knew that I had a Camaro cause its always in my garage. He said he had read my post, saw my pictures and had a friend at DMV look up the plate. Along with my address. Scary stuff.

vinz

dood thats scary. is that legal to do so?
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  #16  
Old 11-29-2009, 12:43 AM
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They did it in Gone in 60 Seconds....it has to be legal >_> Don't know if they're legit but they do have sites that allow you to look up plates, gotta pay some money but most of the time after that first time fee you get unlimited searches for a few years.

Last edited by Dekker; 11-29-2009 at 12:46 AM..
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  #17  
Old 11-29-2009, 2:01 AM
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Originally Posted by lowracer View Post
Just prudent that we keep to a certain level of anonymity on the net. Little bit of info here, little bit there, someone can put together a bigger picture and possibly use it against you in nefarious ways (anything ranging from simple fraud to burglary to aggravated assault). Costs nothing to obscure the number, so it's a good investment of time.
Make sure that tinfoil hat is on nice and tight.
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  #18  
Old 11-29-2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
All kinds of reasons.

You post a photo of a rifle (no DOJ record) and I can read the serial number.
I call and report it stolen... then a few days later, I call the PD back and tell them "Hey, I just found my rifle over here on www.whatever.com!"
hence why i keep ALL my recipts,including the dros info from buying guns and the serial numbers off the box. yah you might get me in trouble now but its not going to do anything long term except cause the police to waste their time.
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:01 AM
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better safe than sorry.
+1. only costs a few seconds of your time
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  #20  
Old 11-29-2009, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ams30gts View Post
dood thats scary. is that legal to do so?
No, it's not.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #21  
Old 11-29-2009, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinz View Post
better safe than sorry.

I had posted a picture of my Camaro on a site I frequent. A few months later a guy comes up to my house and ask if I'd sell my Camaro. I asked how he knew that I had a Camaro cause its always in my garage. He said he had read my post, saw my pictures and had a friend at DMV look up the plate. Along with my address. Scary stuff.

vinz
You do realize that if someone wanted to know this same information, they could have simply followed you home. It's pointless to osbcure something that is PUBLIC anyway!
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  #22  
Old 11-29-2009, 1:13 PM
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You do realize that if someone wanted to know this same information, they could have simply followed you home. It's pointless to osbcure something that is PUBLIC anyway!
Why make their job easier?

There are people searching the internet for opportunities.
Your "public circle" may only be a radius of 30 miles from home with such a vehicle, but a public posting immediately opens that window of opportunity up to a dishonest person as far as 100 miles away... or thousands if the person who notices your photo has a friend in your area.

And the serial numbers on my guns are not exactly "public".
I can guarantee you that nobody other than my dealer and the DOJ know more than the first 5 digits of my serial number.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2009, 6:16 AM
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Originally Posted by wiki wiki View Post
I've noticed some people make sure to obscure the serial numbers of their firearm in photos, why is that exactly?
They will blurr out the gun serial number or car license number, then they will post pictures of their family and kids for all to see. They probably offer to have potential buyers come to their house to look at the items for sale too. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I have a lot more fear of "cyber freaks" looking to do my family harm than I do my guns or cars.
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  #24  
Old 11-30-2009, 10:43 AM
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People obsure serial number because they choose to.

Anyone who thinks this it is a pointless or needless safety measure should reply to this thread with the Serial Numbers and descriptions of ALL their weapons. Also throw in the license plate info for all your vehicles.

It's all public information already so it won't hurt... right??
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diginit View Post
You can go to jail covering the S.N. Be Careful!
FUD Many if not most wheel guns have the serial under the grips from the factory. It has been noted that applying something over the serial to purposely obscure it could violate another section not directly dealing with firearms.

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537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes
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I really think there should be an implied permanence to this section even though it does not present itself.

BTW, this is fairly off topic

On topic: Its a privacy thing, just like the above said. Is it worth it? who knows.
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  #26  
Old 11-30-2009, 11:35 AM
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What's to stop someone from using your serial number on a home made or modified weapon?

Anything that can easily link back to your home address, name, and other info should be covered up.
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Old 11-30-2009, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by thempopresense View Post
What's to stop someone from using your serial number on a home made or modified weapon?

Anything that can easily link back to your home address, name, and other info should be covered up.
To the right individual the mere fact that you surf the internet is all the info needed to track you down. IP addresses and other forms of your "cyber footprint" is plenty of information for the wrong person. You really just need to hope that you are not important enough for someone to mess with, or that you are just plain lucky.

Last edited by joepamjohn; 11-30-2009 at 12:46 PM..
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Old 11-30-2009, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by joepamjohn View Post
To the right individual the mere fact that you surf the internet is all the info needed to track you down. IP addresses and other forms of your "cyber footprint" is plenty of information for the wrong person. You really just need to hope that you are not important enough for someone to mess with, or that you are just plain lucky.
Those methods require a little more work, and "Joe Schmoe" on the net... out of the millions of people, often just doesn't provide the incentive to do so.

Why make it easy by posting a flashy truck or nice gun collection and providing the positive ID information in one photo?
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 11-30-2009, 1:02 PM
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Originally Posted by joepamjohn View Post
To the right individual the mere fact that you surf the internet is all the info needed to track you down. IP addresses and other forms of your "cyber footprint" is plenty of information for the wrong person. You really just need to hope that you are not important enough for someone to mess with, or that you are just plain lucky.
That wrong person would have to be capable of breaking through your ISP's security to get the street address of your assigned IP- and even then you may be sharing it. That's why the feds don't track down and arrest every crackpot that claims they're gonna do something illegal- they have to get a subpoena for the info from the ISP. You can't simply track someone's physical location with just the IP address (for example my IP address currently says I'm in Mesa, when I'm really in Sun City, and I didn't do anything to mask or change it).
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Old 11-30-2009, 1:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
There's an aweful lot of guns out there legally with no paper trail.

No paper is a two edged sword. We like it because it reduces traceability for when "they come for our guns". It also means no liability in the event of theft should the thief use it in a crime.
It also means that it's less likely to be returned to it's rightful owner.
There is paperwork....The FFL keeps it for 20 years. The state doesn't know serials but anything can be traced down.

If a remington 870 is found at a crime or in a dumbster they give the serial number to remington and know what dealer it went to. The dealer knows who then transfered it to....maybe you in this case. If you sold it to someone else they can track that as well unless someone is face to facing it in another state.
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Old 11-30-2009, 1:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BONECUTTER View Post
There is paperwork....The FFL keeps it for 20 years. The state doesn't know serials but anything can be traced down.

If a remington 870 is found at a crime or in a dumbster they give the serial number to remington and know what dealer it went to. The dealer knows who then transfered it to....maybe you in this case. If you sold it to someone else they can track that as well unless someone is face to facing it in another state.
20 years?
That's not very long given the history of weapons in this country.
Any gun not transferred since 1989 has no paper remaining in the system other than RAW.
FFLs go out of business all the time... and while the paperwork would normally be forwarded to the ATF, there are plenty of records that have been stolen or burned... so there are even a lot of guns that have been transferred since 1989 that there is no longer paper available for.

Home-builds are completely paperless unless the owner decides to vol'reg or unless he built from a stripped lower.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #32  
Old 11-30-2009, 1:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Lead Lobber View Post
All my S&W wheel guns have custom grips that cover the serial number. Must piss off cops doing 12031 checks. Oh, well.
A proper 12031 check would include opening the cylinder to check that the piece is unloaded.
The serial number is right there on the frame...

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Old 11-30-2009, 2:52 PM
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Originally Posted by joepamjohn View Post
To the right individual the mere fact that you surf the internet is all the info needed to track you down. IP addresses and other forms of your "cyber footprint" is plenty of information for the wrong person. You really just need to hope that you are not important enough for someone to mess with, or that you are just plain lucky.
So what your saying is that you have access to the web server that is hosting calguns and can get their log files, Or you have access to ISP's log files of all the traffic that goes through their routers. So once you get a list of 2000-3000 IP addresses you will be able to pick mine out, even tho others on this board have much nicer collections. Then you have access to the PPPOE DHCP Logs located at the Users ISP and pull my username, And after that you have access to the billing database to pull my address. That's 3-5 steps you can do, or 3-5 different people you need to know to just get my IP address, then address.

Or you get a license plate number or firearm serial number off a photo, have your DMV/Police/Insurance buddy run the number and get an address.

Even tho it is completely illegal, whats to stop someone from sending in a registration form based on your firearm make/model/serial number and report it stolen?

Yeah it sounds tin foil hat, but anyone with just a little bit of info can make someones life a living hell. Identity theft happens all the time.
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Old 11-30-2009, 3:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BONECUTTER View Post
There is paperwork....The FFL keeps it for 20 years. The state doesn't know serials but anything can be traced down.

If a remington 870 is found at a crime or in a dumbster they give the serial number to remington and know what dealer it went to. The dealer knows who then transfered it to....maybe you in this case. If you sold it to someone else they can track that as well unless someone is face to facing it in another state.
I don't recall the year when it ended (1989), at that time there was no DROs on guns sold used. Even now a gun shop only keeps a 4473 for long guns and there is no federal or state record of serial numbers. Many times I buy 2 or 3 used long guns on the same 4473. Pretty hard to trace that back to me from a serial number.
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  #35  
Old 11-30-2009, 4:04 PM
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So what your saying is that you have access to the web server that is hosting calguns and can get their log files, Or you have access to ISP's log files of all the traffic that goes through their routers. So once you get a list of 2000-3000 IP addresses you will be able to pick mine out, even tho others on this board have much nicer collections. Then you have access to the PPPOE DHCP Logs located at the Users ISP and pull my username, And after that you have access to the billing database to pull my address. That's 3-5 steps you can do, or 3-5 different people you need to know to just get my IP address, then address.

Or you get a license plate number or firearm serial number off a photo, have your DMV/Police/Insurance buddy run the number and get an address.

Even tho it is completely illegal, whats to stop someone from sending in a registration form based on your firearm make/model/serial number and report it stolen?

Yeah it sounds tin foil hat, but anyone with just a little bit of info can make someones life a living hell. Identity theft happens all the time.
I am not saying that I have the smarts, know how, or any info required to do this on Cal Guns or anywhere else so please do not make that assumption.

My IT guys at work say tracking down someone from a "cyber footprint" is much easier than you may think so just be aware.

There are tons of guys driving around with cars or trucks that say alot about them too. Bumper stickers promoting guns, NRA stickers, Duck or Deer hunting stickers. If I were a crook I would just follow you home because I will then know where the guns are kept.

Last edited by joepamjohn; 11-30-2009 at 4:06 PM..
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Old 11-30-2009, 4:14 PM
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There are tons of guys driving around with cars or trucks that say alot about them too. Bumper stickers promoting guns, NRA stickers, Duck or Deer hunting stickers. If I were a crook I would just follow you home because I will then know where the guns are kept.
Good point.
I don't have any stickers on my vehicles that would alert people to my expensive hobbies.
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  #37  
Old 12-01-2009, 6:44 AM
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Originally Posted by joepamjohn View Post
I am not saying that I have the smarts, know how, or any info required to do this on Cal Guns or anywhere else so please do not make that assumption.

My IT guys at work say tracking down someone from a "cyber footprint" is much easier than you may think so just be aware.

There are tons of guys driving around with cars or trucks that say alot about them too. Bumper stickers promoting guns, NRA stickers, Duck or Deer hunting stickers. If I were a crook I would just follow you home because I will then know where the guns are kept.
I don't keep anything on my car at all that's politically charged in any way just because I don't feel the need to broadcast my love for one thing or another while I'm in traffic.

That being said- you'd have to be the dumbest criminal in the world to follow a guy home because he has gun-related bumper stickers. As a criminal you'd be making the connection that the guy has weapons but completely dismissing the possibility of the guy having both access to these weapons and the training to use them to stop whatever crime it is you're considering perpetrating. Only way it would make sense is if the criminal was trying to commit suicide by proxy LOL.

I myself don't like to put pics of my firearms on the net at all, though I've done it from time to time. I always just take pics of the other side of the gun, so that the serial isn't exposed. I actually never considered why I do it, I just followed suit with what I saw others doing online because I figured it couldn't hurt any more than the alternative.
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Old 12-01-2009, 9:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Greg-Dawg View Post
I don't think anyone is going to steal your serial number of your gun.

Show it off man!!!
I keep all the receipts for my firearm purchases, then there is no issue about my rifle being "stolen" and the cops knocking on my door.

How would a civilian get owner specific data anyway?

I'm not sure that it's really a concern, BUT if someone could offer a very real and valid reason...then...

But heck, what do I know anyway...
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Old 12-01-2009, 9:13 AM
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You do realize that if someone wanted to know this same information, they could have simply followed you home. It's pointless to osbcure something that is PUBLIC anyway!
Interesting
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Sip your Victory Gin folks, time's are a changin'

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Last edited by OHOD; 12-03-2009 at 5:47 AM.. Reason: misspelled
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  #40  
Old 12-01-2009, 9:32 AM
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Originally Posted by joepamjohn View Post
I don't recall the year when it ended (1989), at that time there was no DROs on guns sold used. Even now a gun shop only keeps a 4473 for long guns and there is no federal or state record of serial numbers. Many times I buy 2 or 3 used long guns on the same 4473. Pretty hard to trace that back to me from a serial number.
4473's are for all firearms and they do have serial numbers on them. Even if you buy 10+ at a time. Its not hard to trace at all.
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