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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 12-07-2012, 10:32 PM
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Default San Diego and applications for LTCs post oral arguments - is NOW the time?

While sitting in for the oral arguments and listening to Gore's attorney state on public record that:
-San Diego accepts "self defense" as cause
-San Diego goes out of their way to approve everyone who applies

I couldn't stop myself from thinking that now would be the time. Simply apply with "self defense" and list a link to the oral arguments file posted in another thread in the application.

Ironically, if San Diego DID actually accept "self defense" and tried to approve everyone - why in Sam Hill would San Diego refuse to go "shall issue" - seems that their court claims contradict reality.
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  #2  
Old 12-07-2012, 11:13 PM
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I've heard that they encourage people not to complete the application process so that they can avoid having to deny a license.

If you can't wait, go ahead. If you can wait for a decision, it might get a lot easier (fingers crossed).
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2012, 11:15 PM
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There is also the possibility of a stay on appeal....Like Wollard.
I'll wait.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:33 PM
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What steps could be taken ahead of time so you have as much done as possible if the flood gates should open?
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2012, 11:38 PM
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of course they accept it as good cause, they just dont approve in the end.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:38 PM
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of course they accept it as good cause, they just dont approve in the end.
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  #7  
Old 12-07-2012, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
What steps could be taken ahead of time so you have as much done as possible if the flood gates should open?
Fill out an application if you want.

After we get self defense=good cause, we will still have to sue over high fees, interviews and notifying your neighbors when you apply. I'm not sure if SD does all those things but I know some counties do.

Once it's just as easy to get a CA LTC as an Oregon non-resident LTC, I'll have no excuses left and will get mine. I might do it sooner but our goal should be to make it simple and easy for all people eligible to own firearms.
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wash View Post
I've heard that they encourage people not to complete the application process so that they can avoid having to deny a license.

If you can't wait, go ahead. If you can wait for a decision, it might get a lot easier (fingers crossed).
Thats what they did with me when I applied 3 years ago. Told me I needed 3 local character references (I had just moved to the area so I didnt really know anyone), a letter from my immediate supervisor and his supervisor, this that and the other thing... Then, right before ending the first interview the lady told me that even with all that I most likely wouldnt be getting it. IIRC at the time they wanted all the money up front as well so I just said screw it.
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2012, 1:47 AM
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The civilian permits are good for two years.

I would encourage all law abiding SD residents in this "border area" laden with cartels, gangs and rife with crime to apply no more often then each 2 yrs.

If one gets apprehended for exercising their civil rights (God forbid) you will have a paper trail of your compliance with statues.

The licensing division got in trouble with this paper trail business in the past and they expect you to not apply on cue or trash said applications when advised by them.

This way when Gore runs for office in the future he can say " 90% of our applicants are granted CCW". There are a couple of large gray haired women at the licensing division that have scared off firemen and even active military people in the past.

They tell you the reason you don't want to apply is that you will be denied and there will be a record of such at the DOJ in Sacramento. (As if there is going to be a picture of you in the post office with the child molesters.) Then after that they say that "nobody applied".

It's kind of like military or police training. Nobody wants you to have a real gun unless you jump through certain hoops and prove that you are serious and not retarded. After all we are talking about real guns and ammo being carried around this border area.

Let them know your serious about the law and fill out the silly application. In spite of what they tell you they will respect you the morning after you apply. You are either part of their files in their downstairs basement or you are in their round file. Most of are stalwart SD citizens don't make to the basement files.

Apply early and apply often!

Ask the people in Sacramento if they applied too early?
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  #10  
Old 12-08-2012, 8:12 AM
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[QUOTE=wash;9875389]Fill out an application if you want. [quote]

The application will be changing soon; I doubt the old form will be accepted once it does.

-Brandon
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  #11  
Old 12-08-2012, 8:27 AM
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I read all this stuff in the forums about SD sheriff licensing, but I just don't get it. I don't have any special connections. don't carry large sums of cash, but I am in an established business with what I consider (very) good cause. anyway, every time I have gone to the SD licensing division over the past 10+ years, I have never experienced anything but polite, courteous even dare I say friendly and helpful people. I was just there this week renewing my permit.

Not saying I don't agree that shall issue should be the policy and I know licensing staff only follows policy, they don't set it. just what people say about sheriff licensing staff is so 180 degrees opposite to what I have always experienced that I find it difficult to understand.

anyway I get it...please no rants. just saying...
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Old 12-08-2012, 9:28 AM
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I predict even with a win in court, floodgates for applications may open but this will result inzero PERMITS being issued. The agencies will run out of applications, have a broken livescan machine, the sheriff is on vacation, your thumbprint isnt clear enough, ran out of rice papaper, sheriff couldnt find a pen, you took training on a weekend we only accept midweek training, and on and on. Each one of these requires a 3 year case to resolve. Do you really think the Sheriff of SF will just say "ok"?
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  #13  
Old 12-08-2012, 11:32 AM
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[QUOTE=PackingHeatInSDCA;9876437]I read all this stuff in the forums about SD sheriff licensing, but I just don't get it. I don't have any special connections. don't carry large sums of cash, but I am in an established business with what I consider (very) good cause. QUOTE]

Well, there you go. So, your "very good cause" carrys more weight than my wanting to defend self and family? So, my life is only worth defending w/in my own home but not worth defending once I step out my front door?

You see, with your "very good cause" you DO have a "special IN" for a permit.

And in case you missed it - in oral arguments, Gore's attorney was pushed to reply if "self defense" was an acceptable good cause. If "self defense" is acceptable and the attorney claims that Gore "goes out of his way to accept all applications" - what would be the issue going "shall issue" since that is the definition?
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:37 PM
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[QUOTE=wildhawker;9876352]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wash View Post
Fill out an application if you want.
Quote:

The application will be changing soon; I doubt the old form will be accepted once it does.

-Brandon
Yes but it will probably be easy to take the information from the old form and copy it to the new form, maybe saving a little time.
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  #15  
Old 12-08-2012, 1:02 PM
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Maybe, but I don't understand what value that adds.
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Old 12-08-2012, 1:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfpcservice View Post
IDo you really think the Sheriff of SF will just say "ok"?
It's San Diego, not San Francisco (or just a typo).
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Old 12-08-2012, 2:02 PM
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Barry AKA "Packing Weight in SD".

I have been dealing with SD licensing division since 1994 and thus the rantings.

It is a fact that myself and others have been treated like rented mules by certain agents of the SD Sheriff's. I also think I was singled out because of my history of having red hair. It is sparse and grey now due to the stress of dealing with this govt agency.

You are correct that there are staff at the SD lic div that take their jobs very seriously and are polite, courteous and helpful to the public.

In 2005 SD lic div staff Jerry Quinlin spelled out to me the "down low" on how things work . It took me 10 months while others got permits in 2 months. I give him praise and thanks and hope that he is enjoying his retirement. I am have since been egregiously denied LTC civil rights by Lic manager and Sheriff Gore.

God speed to you Barry
Mark Cleary
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  #18  
Old 12-08-2012, 2:33 PM
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My initial permit took a good six months. just one day it was in the mail. this was ~12 years ago.

not sure why you felt the need to plaster my name in the thread. hrm......
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Old 12-08-2012, 2:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wash View Post
I've heard that they encourage people not to complete the application process so that they can avoid having to deny a license.

If you can't wait, go ahead. If you can wait for a decision, it might get a lot easier (fingers crossed).
That is what happened to me.
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  #20  
Old 12-08-2012, 5:29 PM
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Maybe, but I don't understand what value that adds.
If people want to feel like they are doing something to prepare, it's something...

Probably not a lot of value but that wasn't the question.
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