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  #1  
Old 11-19-2009, 10:21 AM
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Default Time to implement this Suggestion

Sub Forums for SoCal and NorCal on the Private Party Sales.

Reasons:
-Firearms are more expensive to ship, and there are suddenly potential legal problems with doing so.
-People are willing to drive 2-3 hours for a gun the REALLY want. The amount of people willing to drive 8 hours is less numerous, and they can go surf both forums.
-Ease of finding what you want: I get excited about a gun in the title, only to find it's far away and not an option.
-Uncluttering the site: every night there are 8 pages of new or updated threads.
-Forces someone to post a general location so that potential buyers have a clue. There is too much, "where are you located?" going on, if I know that the gun is in NorCal, it's an option, if I know it's in SoCal, it's not really.

The drawbacks:
-The VERY few users that are willing to drive long distances, have firearms shipped, or travel a lot between North and South will have to surf the other forum.

I know this has been suggested several times, and I could understand why it wasn't before... but this kind of traffic is just getting wearisome. I would prefer to surf through a few pages that are new/updated rather than 8 pages worth, with half of them being utterly irrelevant to me. If I'm *REALLY* willing to get a gun from LA/SD, then I'll take the extra 30 seconds to surf the SoCal pages.

I think this should only apply to Firearms, not the Ammo/Accessories/other forums, because those can be more easily shipped, and there's no 10 day waiting period that would necessitate a 2nd trip 10 days later...
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2009, 11:01 AM
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I like this idea. When you PPT a gun you have to drive there twice as well. I'll drive from the Bay Area to Sac, but even if I was heading to LA anyway I'd have to make a second trip to pick it up.
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  #3  
Old 11-20-2009, 8:42 AM
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That's exactly the point. The Firearms forum needs to be broken into 2 sub-forums, North and South. The rest can be shipped, and this wouldn't affect the truly desperate or the travellers, because they will surf both forums anyway.
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  #4  
Old 11-20-2009, 11:29 AM
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I vote for this too!!!
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  #5  
Old 11-20-2009, 12:21 PM
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what about c & r's? they can ship direct.. and if they are separated, people will look less at both. or what about when someone is selling additional items in the same ad with the fire arm? personally, I think the location should be in the title, but not separated..


Example is the high road

for sale title
FS: EAA Witness compact .40S&W(CT)

they are nation wide... should they separate each state??

just a thought.


I think it should stay as it is, but with city in title
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2009, 12:21 PM
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Nice, I just put in a suggestion for this recently . I am always sad to see something I like in Nor Cal.
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2009, 1:25 PM
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i like the idea of norcal and socal sub-forums in the private sale section, i have found so many guns i liked but found in the description that it was in socal.
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  #8  
Old 11-20-2009, 6:40 PM
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I'm with you on this I think this should be implemented.
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  #9  
Old 11-20-2009, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freonr22 View Post
if they are separated, people will look less at both.
That's the point. I don't always want to look at every single ad, I want to look at the ads that I am apt to buy... and if I am desperate enough for an SKS Para to the point that I would drive to SoCal, then you can bet I'll be surfing the SoCal forums as well. But we *NEED* to do something to reduce the clutter, the traffic to the site is getting higher, the threads are getting more numerous, and so making some common-sense changes like this will help everyone out.

As for accessories, they are in a different forum. Those forums don't need to be divided into NorCal/SoCal. But the firearms forum does, it's just way too crowded.
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  #10  
Old 11-21-2009, 2:27 PM
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I am so on board with this idea mainly because I see lots of stuff up north but don't learn as much until after I've read all the way down to the bottom of the listing. Very frustrating. I also agree that with the sheer volume of listings it would help to reduce the number of pages a user has to leaf through when browsing. If there is something I really want badly then it would be my option to have a look-see on the NorCal board and be prepared to do two day trips for the purchase. In practice I could actually see going to a three-forum format, since there are lots of sellers from Bakersfield up to Fresno who would likely be too far for either SoCal or NorCal buyers.

Maybe in the meantime the admins could require that you disclose your location in the title of your offer...
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  #11  
Old 11-21-2009, 9:13 PM
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I wouldn't have a problem with NorCal-SoCal-CentralCal subforums...
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  #12  
Old 11-21-2009, 10:46 PM
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I think its fine the way it is. Thats why you state your location? I just shipped a rifle up north and it cost me $20. Everybody seems to act like you are spending hundreds of dollars just to ship? Just like when they divided the rifle forum, most people still post questions in rifle forum becus most people browse that section more? In one year there are gonna be a ton of sub sections. too much. Leave it alone. Its fine. I havent met one person that wasnt willing to ship, even the people that say FTF only, will still ship if you ask them nicely..

Next thing is, maybe we should seperate the guns for sale, AR's, AK's, pistols, C&R, shotguns etc.. Its just gonna go on and on becus people dont want to read the whole ad..

Last edited by supermario; 11-21-2009 at 10:51 PM..
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  #13  
Old 11-22-2009, 12:11 PM
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NO! What's YOUR definition of nor cal? What's mine, what's his. You end up with a majority of people living near the seam and not knowing where to look. This is not a good idea. Much easier is requiring people to put a city name in the title. Whoops, problem solved.
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  #14  
Old 11-22-2009, 5:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcalidave View Post
NO! What's YOUR definition of nor cal? What's mine, what's his. You end up with a majority of people living near the seam and not knowing where to look. This is not a good idea. Much easier is requiring people to put a city name in the title. Whoops, problem solved.
agreed.

Subforums are a horrible idea.
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  #15  
Old 11-22-2009, 5:22 PM
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I don't like the separated sub-forums because being in central CA, I wouldn't know where to look...
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  #16  
Old 11-22-2009, 8:49 PM
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Thread needs a poll of who wants the subforums, and a thread needs to be made about what is norcal/cencal/socal.

OR, maybe it can be norcal, central valley, and socal.
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  #17  
Old 11-22-2009, 10:31 PM
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+1 for City/Nearest Major city in the ad title.
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  #18  
Old 11-23-2009, 1:11 AM
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I agree with the sub forums. Something has to be done. Under the sub forums title you can put something like

So-Cal Forum
(Click here if you live South of Bakersfield)

Norcal Forum
(Bay Area, Redding,Sacramento, Eureka)

CenCal Forum
(Madera, Fresno,Visalia,Tulare)


Doesn't have to be exacly like that but we could define what WE think Norcal and Socal is under the forum title. The private sales forums is getting really crowded and let's face it California is a big state somebody from Redding maybe doesn't want to see something from San Diego and if they're willing to travel for a specific fire arm they really want or wanting to have it shipped they'll probably be clicking on the Socal thread. Sometimes gas money really adds up to the overall cost of acquiring a fire arm but hey that's up to each individual to decide that's why they can click on the other region's thread.
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  #19  
Old 11-23-2009, 6:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FNH5-7 View Post
I agree with the sub forums. Something has to be done. Under the sub forums title you can put something like

So-Cal Forum
(Click here if you live South of Bakersfield)

Norcal Forum
(Bay Area, Redding,Sacramento, Eureka)

CenCal Forum
(Stockton(ish)Madera, Fresno,Visalia,Tulare)


Doesn't have to be exacly like that but we could define what WE think Norcal and Socal is under the forum title. The private sales forums is getting really crowded and let's face it California is a big state somebody from Redding maybe doesn't want to see something from San Diego and if they're willing to travel for a specific fire arm they really want or wanting to have it shipped they'll probably be clicking on the Socal thread. Sometimes gas money really adds up to the overall cost of acquiring a fire arm but hey that's up to each individual to decide that's why they can click on the other region's thread.
Fixed.
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  #20  
Old 11-23-2009, 6:31 AM
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Originally Posted by bigcalidave View Post
NO! What's YOUR definition of nor cal? What's mine, what's his. You end up with a majority of people living near the seam and not knowing where to look.
Seriously, a majority of people living in the seams? That's stretching things a bit. Everyone knows what the general bounderies are. "STOCKTON" is not Central Ca, Bakersfield is. And anyone is still free to browse whatever other forums there are.

The point is, I don't want to scroll through 8 pages of threads everyday. And the site is GROWING, so it'll be 10 pages soon, and then 15 and then 20. We don't need that, we need organization. If you DO live near a seam, then you can surf BOTH subforums and nothing has changed for you, but for the people that are JUST in NorCal, why don't you allow them to make the SoCal guns option to view? I don't have all the time in the world.

I don't get what the problem is with organizing a bit.
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  #21  
Old 11-23-2009, 1:21 PM
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I believe it does need organization, if it benefits the majority and only harms a few you should go ahead and do it.
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  #22  
Old 11-23-2009, 3:42 PM
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I am in the LA area, and I wouldn't drive to San Diego to do a PPT. Yet LA and SD are both in SoCal. I think it's fine the way it is.
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  #23  
Old 11-24-2009, 6:16 AM
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I am in the LA area, and I wouldn't drive to San Diego to do a PPT. Yet LA and SD are both in SoCal. I think it's fine the way it is.
Yet, wouldn't you like to have the NorCal stuff out of your sight??? Or would you prefer to surf an extra 4 pages of stuff you KNOW you're not going to get?

Everybody benefits, the only people that "lose out" have to click one more time to go to the other forum and look. Simple as that. There are no drawbacks.
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  #24  
Old 11-24-2009, 8:51 PM
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Sounds great when can we have this implemented?
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  #25  
Old 11-24-2009, 10:39 PM
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The location in the title (standardized btw) would make sense but a sub fourm division would seem a bit arbitrary for anyone in geographic middle not knowing where to look or the extremes. A resident of Crescent City or Redding would have as much use for a transfer in Nor Cal as far south in say Fresno.
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZapThyCat View Post
Everyone knows what the general bounderies are. "STOCKTON" is not Central Ca, Bakersfield is.
I guess everyone does math a little different than me, Bakersfield is in the lower third of the state, and Stockton is in the middle third.
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  #27  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:25 PM
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[QUOTE=ZapThyCat;3382651]

-Firearms are more expensive to ship, and there are suddenly potential legal problems with doing so.
[QUOTE]

Please explain.

BTW, I've driven 8 hrs to buy a few things on I've found here. OK, I really drove somewhere else but, I've taken a few 2 hr detours to buy and even deliver things to fellow calgunners in both the greater Bay Area and the Sacramento Area. If the forums were divided, I never would have made those deals because I would have been looking for convienent ones.
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Last edited by CSACANNONEER; 11-25-2009 at 6:54 AM..
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  #28  
Old 11-25-2009, 6:21 AM
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Okay, for all the naysayers, you are doing the exact same tactic as liberals, aka "I don't have a problem with it personally, but 1% of the population that lives in the middle might, so I'll take up for them".

Akin to that, the only reprecussions to that policy would be that someone would then have to click an extra two (2) times to get to the OTHER subforum. I don't think anyone would have a problem with this, this merely adds organization to the firearms for sale forum, and gives people a chance to see in what rough geographic area they are looking in.
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  #29  
Old 11-25-2009, 6:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellito View Post
I guess everyone does math a little different than me, Bakersfield is in the lower third of the state, and Stockton is in the middle third.
Yes, if you draw lines while looking at the state, however you stated that the Bay Area would NorCal and Stockton would be Central Cal... and that makes no sense, since they are at the same latitude. Everyone knows that from Modesto on up, you're considered clearly NorCal. Anything below the grapevine is clearly SoCal. There are a very few minorities that live in Death Valley or SLO that wonder where they would post, and the answer is that they could post in both forums or have a Central Cal forum, or whatever. This division of the forum would aid 95% of the people on the site, and the other 5% would have to click twice more. I would think that's a clear advantage.

I'm just tired of going through a million posts everyday. The site is growing, there needs to be some organization to it, or at least the part of it that makes you take 2 visits to the same FFL 10 days apart.
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Old 11-25-2009, 6:28 AM
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Please explain.

BTW, I've driven 8 hrs to buy a few things on I've found here. OK, I really drove somewhere else but, I've taken a few 2 hr detours to buy and even deliver things to fellow calgunners in both the greater Bay Area and the Sacramento Area. If the forums were divided, I never would have made those deals because I would have been looking for convienent ones.[/QUOTE]

That law came into effect last year that you can't ship a gun in the state of CA without a DOJ approval.

And it's just the firearm forum that would be divided, the other forums would still have together, because it's legal to ship accessories and such.
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  #31  
Old 11-25-2009, 7:00 AM
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its a legit idea that needs considering. It gets annoying to look for items I want and have to click on it only to find out they are in San Fran and I am in SoCal.. I think it would save me great time and hassle and IF I wanted to look into the other sub forum as item location did not matter, when it does 99% of the time for me, I could then, rather than being forced to cull through all search results.
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  #32  
Old 11-25-2009, 7:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZapThyCat View Post
Please explain.

BTW, I've driven 8 hrs to buy a few things on I've found here. OK, I really drove somewhere else but, I've taken a few 2 hr detours to buy and even deliver things to fellow calgunners in both the greater Bay Area and the Sacramento Area. If the forums were divided, I never would have made those deals because I would have been looking for convienent ones.
That law came into effect last year that you can't ship a gun in the state of CA without a DEA approval.

And it's just the firearm forum that would be divided, the other forums would still have together, because it's legal to ship accessories and such.[/QUOTE]

OK, you are talking about FFL to FFL shipping then. Yea, filling out an online form for 30 seconds is a big deal to most Ca FFLs. So, it does make it more difficult to ship now. Really, it only takes 30 seconds to about 1 minute (if the FFL is semi literate) to fill out this form. If this is the best arguement for splitting the forum in two then, I can't support it. Many people will miss out on C&R long guns that can be shipped dirrectly from one non-FFL to another (without filling out ANY forum) just because the would be buyer ddidn't take the time to look at the other forum(s). BTW, where, exactly, do you proposed to split the state? You realize that instead of making it more difficult (by 30 seconds) for FFL to FFL transfers, it would mean that all those within 2 hours of the dividing line (that's about a 250 mile strip of land across the state), would have to spend an extra second or two every time they looked at the firearms for sale forum. I'm sure that most people look far more often than they buy a gun which needs to be shipped. This means that, for a whole bunch of people, splitting the forum would take a little more time out of their day every time they looked at the forum. Or, do you know of a 250 mile strip of land, in the middle of the state, which is uninhabited?
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  #33  
Old 11-25-2009, 7:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZapThyCat View Post
That law came into effect last year that you can't ship a gun in the state of CA without a DEA approval.
What does the Drug Enforcement Administration have to do with shipping a gun to an FFL? Do you mean Department of Justice? (DOJ)

Do you mean the CFLC program? If so check out this link.

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcfaqs.php#2

...from this link...

Quote:
I am not an FFL but I want to ship a firearm to a California FFL. Do I have to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number before shipping a firearm to California?
No. The requirement to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number only applies to holders of valid FFLs.
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  #34  
Old 11-25-2009, 9:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
where, exactly, do you proposed to split the state? You realize that instead of making it more difficult (by 30 seconds) for FFL to FFL transfers, it would mean that all those within 2 hours of the dividing line (that's about a 250 mile strip of land across the state), would have to spend an extra second or two every time they looked at the firearms for sale forum. I'm sure that most people look far more often than they buy a gun which needs to be shipped. This means that, for a whole bunch of people, splitting the forum would take a little more time out of their day every time they looked at the forum. Or, do you know of a 250 mile strip of land, in the middle of the state, which is uninhabited?
There doesn't need to be a line drawn.

This is an organizational idea, therefore the vast majority of people that are either solidly NorCal or SoCal would benefit. As for the Central Cal folks, they are surely more apt to drive to one place or the other, and there's nothing wrong with posting in both areas. Anyone that is "inconvenienced" by the extra two clicks to search the other area will have to deal with it, because there's far, Far, FAR more benefit in that I'm looking at ads that I know are for the 200 miles around me, and not in SoCal. Don't you understand that MOST of the people live in metropolitan centers that are SOLIDLY one area or the other? Of the top 100 most populous cities in Cali, there are 5 that are in "the middle": Fresno, Bakersfield, Viselia, Clovis and Merced. It's not all that populated, and if it is, then we can just as easily add a third subform for the Central Cal folks.

The forum is growing. The 95% of people that are clearly in NorCal and SoCal shouldn't have to suffer looking through a dozen pages and clicking on TOO MANY threads that don't have a location just because you can't use logic and draw some clearly discerable lines.
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  #35  
Old 11-25-2009, 2:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ZapThyCat View Post
Yes, if you draw lines while looking at the state, however you stated that the Bay Area would NorCal and Stockton would be Central Cal... and that makes no sense, since they are at the same latitude. Everyone knows that from Modesto on up, you're considered clearly NorCal. Anything below the grapevine is clearly SoCal. There are a very few minorities that live in Death Valley or SLO that wonder where they would post, and the answer is that they could post in both forums or have a Central Cal forum, or whatever. This division of the forum would aid 95% of the people on the site, and the other 5% would have to click twice more. I would think that's a clear advantage.

I'm just tired of going through a million posts everyday. The site is growing, there needs to be some organization to it, or at least the part of it that makes you take 2 visits to the same FFL 10 days apart.
I never stated that the Bay area is norcal. maybe somebody else said that. For the record I think it would be nice to see it broke up somehow. I would just prefer location in title.
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Old 11-25-2009, 3:21 PM
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Just reviewing the posts after I suggested a SoCal/NorCal/CentralCal split. Boy, lots of opinions. The main goal would be to split up the sale forums so that users don't have to browse as many pages sifting through things that are likely to be out of reasonable driving range and not prompt so many of those "I'd buy it if you were closer" replies. People living in the seam could browse either side of the dividing line, as could we all, the point is to make browsing/shopping less cumbersome. Living in OC, I could browse the NorCal forum knowing full well that anything I found would require a special trip or shipping if feasible for the item.

I went online and found the following California county lines map:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/states/california.gif

Just to throw it out there, lets say that "SoCal" would consist of south of and including Ventura, L.A., and San Bernardino counties. "NorCal" would consist of everything north of and including Santa Cruz, Santa Clara, Stanislaus, Tuolumne and Alpine counties. "Central Cal" would be everything in between. That would give SoCal the greater LA/OC and San Diego areas, NorCal the Bay Area and Sacramento/Stockton and Central Cal gets Fresno, Bakersfield, Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo as their major cities.
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Old 11-25-2009, 4:07 PM
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+ one for just putting the Major city in the Title. No software changes and you can scan through reall quick ( 40/page)
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Old 11-25-2009, 4:18 PM
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i agree that it should be split.. would make finding things much easier
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Old 11-25-2009, 4:19 PM
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There will be a new set of subforums based on the radial distance of the seller from Ivanimal.

I've purchased multiple items (including firearms) in OC/LA despite being in the SF area.

It is possible that geographical subforums will happen, but I don't see the need.
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Old 11-25-2009, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GrinderCB View Post
I went online and found the following California county lines map:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/states/california.gif

Just to throw it out there, lets say that "SoCal" would consist of south of and including Ventura, L.A., and San Bernardino counties. "NorCal" would consist of everything north of and including Santa Cruz, Santa Clara, Stanislaus, Tuolumne and Alpine counties. "Central Cal" would be everything in between. That would give SoCal the greater LA/OC and San Diego areas, NorCal the Bay Area and Sacramento/Stockton and Central Cal gets Fresno, Bakersfield, Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo as their major cities.
yep, so I am considered central, even though I work in LA county, nearest major city is in LA county, so I will search Socal subforum.

Great, except for those items in Bakersfield that I will never see. I am not going to sift through adds primarily in fresno area to try and find the ones in Bakersfield.

How this: WTS Glock 22 $350, Palmdale. Pretty simple, Palmdale is either acceptable driving distance for the item or not. No searching one forum for a normal item, and having to search all if you want something a little more rare.
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