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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 11-15-2009, 2:09 AM
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Default Soft pt. vs. Hollow Point - .223/5.56

So i'm shopping for some zombie ammo if I should ever need it or in a SHTF situation to load up my AR with.

Whats the diff between a soft point, or a hollow point?

I'm looking at the hornady leo tap or the hornady barrier ammo?
Or anything else you guys think is quality ammo with good capabilites. And please tell why or why not I'd want a particular ammo.

Thanks in advance!
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2009, 3:37 AM
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soft point just has the tip exposed with the soft lead which expands but depending on surface how much it expands?

and hollow point is designed with the purpose of expanding upon impact due to the open cavity shape of the tip consistently and at any hard enough surface

at least that is what i am assuming?

i think with zombie ammo, FMJ might be fine due to the undead needing headshots more than devestating flesh wounds to stop them. and with FMJ you can get more penetration to kill more than 1 at a time due to the rotting flesh of the head area.
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
soft point just has the tip exposed with the soft lead which expands but depending on surface how much it expands?

and hollow point is designed with the purpose of expanding upon impact due to the open cavity shape of the tip consistently and at any hard enough surface

at least that is what i am assuming?

i think with zombie ammo, FMJ might be fine due to the undead needing headshots more than devestating flesh wounds to stop them. and with FMJ you can get more penetration to kill more than 1 at a time due to the rotting flesh of the head area.
See what happens when you ASSume

Soft points are the equivalent of hollow point pistol ammo. They expand upon contact.

The hollow point in rifle ammo is NOT for expansion(with the exception of the barnes TSX bullet) but is instead part of the manufacturing process to make a more consistent read: accurate bullet. They act similar to a FMJ(yaw and fragmentation) but they fragment better and are more consistent.
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:27 AM
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I asked in a class recently and was told LEOs typically running heavier weight bullets w soft points.
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:32 AM
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I know the HP rifle bullets unlike HP pistol bullets, are meant for accuracy rather than expansion

FMJ are prohibited for hunting, I was wondering if HP is legal for hunting or if you have to use soft points
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Old 11-15-2009, 11:36 AM
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hmmmm...interesting. So soft points, can anyone recommend a particular kind/brand etc? Im going with hornady for now then.
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Old 11-15-2009, 1:01 PM
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What some of you are not mentioning is the fact that all rifle hollow points are not just match bullets. Some are designed as hunting bullets, some as varmit bullets.
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Old 11-15-2009, 6:01 PM
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The cheapest bulk .223 will work fine for popping zombie heads, no worries!!
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Old 11-15-2009, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bigcalidave View Post
The cheapest bulk .223 will work fine for popping zombie heads, no worries!!
+1 they will do fine
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Old 11-15-2009, 7:57 PM
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I prefer balistic tips for Zombie ammo...
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Old 11-15-2009, 8:57 PM
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I prefer balistic tips for Zombie ammo...
i prefer hand grenades.....
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:15 PM
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Personally I think that moleltav cocktails will provide the most fun and are very cost effective ( $3 bucks a gallon, six bucks for a 12 pack of beer, gotta be longnecks, makes it sub 10 dollars for 12 zombie bombs, plus you get to drink the beer!)
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeddreamz View Post
hmmmm...interesting. So soft points, can anyone recommend a particular kind/brand etc? Im going with hornady for now then.
If you have enough dough to drop on a bunch of Hornady ammo, get some type of ballistic tip ammo. That will really F the S out of things. Hardcore.
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Old 11-15-2009, 11:34 PM
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Depends on what you are really thinking of using it for. If you live in an urban area and are thinking of self defense against a burglar, think soft point or ballistic tipped. If you live in the woods and are more worried about barrier penetration, go with the military variants or TAP barrier penetrator.

Hornday makes some excellent products. I have done extensive ballistic testing including barrier penetration (intermediate and tertiary) with most available products from federal, remington, hornday, PMC, CCI, winchester, etc... I can tell you that I am VERY impressed with the Hornday TAP ammo. I am NOT particularly impressed with some of the others out there.

The Hornday TAP barrier penetration ammo was distributed as a LE ammo on purpose. It does exactly what they say it will and I have personally fired it through fire doors while testing on the range. Hornday ammo is pretty expensive these days. That being said, their 62grn ballistic tipped TAP ammo is about as good as it gets and its what I have in loaded in my mags.

Hornady also started loading their premium bullets into nickle coated steel casings a few years ago for LE practice ammo. What is the quality difference between this and their standard product? Nothing other than the casing as far as I could tell after extensive shooting. I ran several thousand rounds out of an old department M16M4, my personal AR-15's and my custom mini's. No issues and it costs you about 2/3 what the premium stuff will.

Last edited by gunrun45; 11-15-2009 at 11:37 PM..
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Old 11-16-2009, 8:06 AM
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I watched Lock'd and Loaded on History a few weeks ago and they were comparing the AK and the AR, they showed the AR shooting into ballistics gel and the "expert" said that the front end of the 5.56 slows down faster than the back end causing the bullet to tumble and create a bigger wound channel. If that's the case I would think expansion is not an important factor. Which would make bullet weight retention and accuracy more important I would think.
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Old 11-16-2009, 8:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcholak View Post
I watched Lock'd and Loaded on History a few weeks ago and they were comparing the AK and the AR, they showed the AR shooting into ballistics gel and the "expert" said that the front end of the 5.56 slows down faster than the back end causing the bullet to tumble and create a bigger wound channel. If that's the case I would think expansion is not an important factor. Which would make bullet weight retention and accuracy more important I would think.
It's all dependent on the type of ammo and bullet design. There're more advanced designs in 223 ammo. However, there're a few AK (7.62x39) designs are very good for popping zombies.

Longer bullets will yaw on impact, but fragmentation is how they make the real death out of the zombies.
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Old 11-16-2009, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1988 View Post
It's all dependent on the type of ammo and bullet design. There're more advanced designs in 223 ammo. However, there're a few AK (7.62x39) designs are very good for popping zombies.

Longer bullets will yaw on impact, but fragmentation is how they make the real death out of the zombies.
5.45x39 should be decent then
fairly close to the 5.56 in velocity, yet a longer ballistically superior bullet
and you can get zillions of em for cheap
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Old 11-16-2009, 9:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky G View Post
5.45x39 should be decent then
fairly close to the 5.56 in velocity, yet a longer ballistically superior bullet
and you can get zillions of em for cheap
The heavier/longer 223, like 75/77 grain OTMs, are superior to the current designs of 5.45x39. They can yaw as well as fragment upon impact on soft targets.... until someone take the 5.45x39 to another level. I'd watch to see what Hornady would do to the 5.45 round. It's gonna be fun.
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Old 11-16-2009, 9:18 AM
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Hornady soft points are good for hunting
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Old 11-16-2009, 9:28 AM
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I load Winchester Ranger ammo.

http://www.winchester.com/lawenforce...%20Catalog.pdf
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Old 11-16-2009, 9:32 AM
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fmj for maximum penetration for your buck, 1 shot 2 zombies, line 'em up like Pancho Villa did. fancy ammo is just too pricey. WWB or AE
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:29 AM
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well from my experience, hours of "left 4 dead 2" i like the axe and ninja sword .. lol and for man weapon ak with laser and incendiary rounds.
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:29 AM
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so is this stuff legal for hunting in california where FMJ is not allowed?

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Old 11-16-2009, 9:28 PM
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Ammo Oracle has listed what's the best self-defense rounds in .223/5.56. However it goes by what type of barrel you'll be shooting from(I.E twist rate); and if you'll need barrier penetration or not.
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Old 11-17-2009, 2:42 AM
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Twist rate is 1/7 on all my ar's thus far. So I'd be looking at 60-78GR , mine won't have problems stabilizing them
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