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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 11-10-2009, 8:37 AM
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Default Who says a pistol style grasp is needed.

Heres a picture of a person some might know. Hes running his rifle on the left side. Notice his grip it is the same as running a featureless grip left or right. Who says you cant run a rifle without a pistol style grasp. I get tons of questions on running the rifle and felt this picture showed that if you know how to shoot the thumb does not matter.
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  #2  
Old 11-10-2009, 8:39 AM
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you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done
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  #3  
Old 11-10-2009, 8:54 AM
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Does he have two flashlights on his rifle? I have heard of Back up iron sights but.........
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Old 11-10-2009, 8:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry47 View Post
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done
Make sure that you'd do it on a good day....
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Old 11-10-2009, 9:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry47 View Post
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done
Be sure to verify the gender prior to sucking on the nipple.....
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Old 11-10-2009, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry47 View Post
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done
Speaking from experience? If not, how do you know it's not the best way to do it?
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  #7  
Old 11-10-2009, 9:07 AM
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But he also has a beard that could stop a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick. Therefore, he doesn't need no stinkin' thumb to use his AR. Us mere mortals do.
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2009, 9:09 AM
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A pistol grip is more ergonomic than a traditional rifle stock (i.e. M14). This translates to cleaner/straighter trigger pull, due in part that you aren't cocking the wrist/hand to deal with a traditional stock.

As far as the thumb not being around the grip, not sure why the guy in the photo is doing that with a semi.

I do it with my R5 bolt gun, though. But that's only for rapid fire stages (NRA HP "Across the Course". I just use the thumbstud built into the strong side of the rifle chassis to rest my thumb on, which gives me leverage in the bolt operation. Plus, my rapid fire strings are smoother when I don't wrap my thumb around the pistol grip (less time/effort between bolt operations).

The second video below has a better angle of my trigger hand where you can see how my thumb rests on the strong side.



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  #9  
Old 11-10-2009, 9:13 AM
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That looks like Chris. Even looks like his last name on the collar. And, that looks like his gun too. Did I win?
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2009, 9:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry47 View Post
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done
it CAN be done?? really?



sorry...

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  #11  
Old 11-10-2009, 9:16 AM
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ocabj I run my bolt gun the same way with thumb on the same side . I fell it allows for faster follow up shots and does not casue me to cant the rifle . In order the engage the safety on an ar15 without an ambi slector you have to use this style grasp.
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2009, 9:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duraglock View Post
ocabj I run my bolt gun the same way with thumb on the same side as . I fell it allows for faster follow up shots and does not casue me to cant the rifle . In order the engage the safety on an ar15 without an ambi slector you have to use this style grasp.
How funny, I run my bolt actions the same way. I thought I was the only freak who did this.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2009, 9:29 AM
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Isn't our opposable thumb one of the great advantages of the human race? Why would I hold my rifle with a less secure monkey grip especially on a grip that was designed for a "pistol" style hold. On the other hand he might've been snapped in this pic as he was going for the safety.

Last edited by 4thSBCT; 11-10-2009 at 9:32 AM..
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2009, 9:33 AM
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I always though that the pistol grip was designed so you can spray fire from the hip.
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2009, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry47 View Post
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done
Just make sure it's a cow not a bull.......I see lots of bull around this place
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  #16  
Old 11-10-2009, 9:38 AM
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Well that guy obviously doesn't know what he's doing... the rifle is on the wrong shoulder.
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  #17  
Old 11-10-2009, 10:17 AM
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I don't know if my body has been reprogrammed by the CA OLL laws but when transitioning to or from support side I often wind up with thumb on the same side as trigger finger, even on my pistol-gripped AWs.

I think it has to do with the grip hand-off. Two thumbs on the backstrap doesn't really work. However if you do the Suarez "Macarena" transition you don't have that issue.
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  #18  
Old 11-10-2009, 10:20 AM
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Handled several rifles equiped with Duraglock's grip - Much more ergo than the MMG grip -
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  #19  
Old 11-10-2009, 10:23 AM
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That's not a fair comparison - we all know that left handed shooters are naturally more gifted than those folks who shoot off the wrong side, right?
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  #20  
Old 11-10-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DREADNOUGHT78 View Post
Does he have two flashlights on his rifle? I have heard of Back up iron sights but.........
One is IR the other is LED.



He only grasps the rifle like that after the transition to support side, to work the safety. Its also quicker even if he is running an ambi to just fire like that VS. taking the little bit of extra time to completely wrap around after the transition.

Duh!
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  #21  
Old 11-10-2009, 12:16 PM
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Jeez... Y'all are so dang closed-minded. If he shoots better or more efficiently that way let him do it. Doesn't mean you have to adopt that style. Shooting is about finding what works best and most efficiently for you after you receive basic guidelines to form a base on. Not about doing every little thing by the book, because not everything works the same for everybody.
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  #22  
Old 11-10-2009, 1:03 PM
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This guy obviously has no clue what he's doing. I bet he's never taken a carbine class before this pic was taken. I'll second Technique's comment, looks like he transitioned to weak side and got on target quickly. Moving the thumb for a few shots is pointless, especially if Costa isn't running an ambi safety.

I love how half the people don't recognize/know who this is a pic of. The pic does show that a non-pistol grip is doable, great ad campaign duraglock.
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  #23  
Old 11-10-2009, 1:15 PM
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I bet mag changes suck like that...

He might be shooting it like that for the moment, but as a few above me posted it's not a way to run a rifle the entire time.

Still, I do prefer to run gripless on most of my rifles and just deal with it to use my pre bans.
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Old 11-10-2009, 1:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by till44 View Post
This guy obviously has no clue what he's doing. I bet he's never taken a carbine class before this pic was taken. I'll second Technique's comment, looks like he transitioned to weak side and got on target quickly. Moving the thumb for a few shots is pointless, especially if Costa isn't running an ambi safety.

I love how half the people don't recognize/know who this is a pic of. The pic does show that a non-pistol grip is doable, great ad campaign duraglock.

absolutely, tech and till are correct. it's fine to do a quick reaction side transition with hand off the grip like that, but you would be hard pressed to do most other tactical manipulations under stress without the use of your thumb. great twist of the pic, duraglock.
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  #25  
Old 11-10-2009, 2:15 PM
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Heres some vid from the Bay Area Rifle Challenge 09
Rifle was an ak with featureless grip wrap. Pac what type of manipulations would a thumb wrapped grip help with im drawing a blank. Yeah I figured some people would see right away who the shooter was. He is in a transition but it was a nice clear picture of how a thumb wrapped grip is not need to pull the trigger and engage targets left or right side.


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  #26  
Old 11-10-2009, 2:46 PM
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i'm talking about clearing double feeds on the move, one handed transitions, one handed reloads, etc... all that ninjatastic stuff magpul dynamics teaches. i'm not saying it's not possible with a thumbless, but it's far easier with a traditional grip. you need every advantage when you're in a fight so why limit yourself? train as you would fight.

i'm sure thumbless gripping is fine for bench shooting and even 3-gun competitions. i'm not knocking your product one bit when i say this, but remember the only reason we need to get into products such as your own or the MMG or the myriad bullet buttons for that matter, is that CA gun laws suck and they hate us. you'll never see real world operators use a thumbless set up when the original rifle is designed with a pistol grip. there's a reason for that - they aren't civies that live in CA. haha

that being said, if i ever did build a featurless in the future, i would go with your system in a heartbeat.
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  #27  
Old 11-10-2009, 3:04 PM
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Pac for sure a true pistol style grip/hicap mag is best but within the limits of ca like you said train as you fight or compete and for me thats the grip wrap/preban mags. For me Im sticking to featureless so when I do work overseas Im not looking for my bullet button tool.
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Last edited by duraglock; 11-10-2009 at 3:12 PM.. Reason: sp
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  #28  
Old 11-10-2009, 3:09 PM
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Default Who says a pistol style grasp is needed...

For starters, all branches of the armed services. As bad as monsterman & other versions are on the AR, they're abysmal on the FAL.

-hanko
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  #29  
Old 11-10-2009, 3:14 PM
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But she’s such a good lookin’ heffer!

I'm a bullet button guy because I find keeping the rifle secure in my hands more important. I added the freelock improved button for trips outside CA.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 11-10-2009 at 3:17 PM..
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  #30  
Old 11-10-2009, 3:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtec44 View Post
Be sure to verify the gender prior to sucking on the nipple.....
Werd!

.
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  #31  
Old 11-10-2009, 3:53 PM
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Quote:
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One is IR the other is LED.
What IR light is that?
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Old 11-10-2009, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
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What IR light is that?
Surefire defenders...Last I recall, one had an IR filter on it (red lens). I could be mistaken.

EDIT: yes, its still the same from last I saw...the top has the IR cover.
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Old 11-10-2009, 4:28 PM
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I've been holding my AR-15 and practicing inserting the magazine.

I've been holding it in a way where my hand does not wrap around the grip, as if I were using a featureless grip.

I am inserting the magazine just as quick as I do the proper way.

Not the best way, but it works pretty well.

I am getting a solar tactical grip slip and will keep my BB.

I will switch configurations when I feel like it.

I have a midlength and A2 stock, which looks and feels nice.
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Old 11-10-2009, 4:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry47 View Post
you could also suck a cow's nipple for milk. it's not the best way to do it, but it can be done


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Old 11-10-2009, 5:06 PM
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Hey Duraglock, need some more photographic proof of this?

How about this fella, he might know a thing or two as well. Where's his thumb?





Travis had also transitioned to his support side when I took these pics.
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Old 11-10-2009, 5:42 PM
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Its not possible to run a gun like that.
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Old 11-10-2009, 5:45 PM
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This thread has convinced me! I am going to go take the bullet button off my AR and put a MMG on it. After all, with the bulk of the weight support by the forward pistol grip while it's being pulled into the body, and the collapsable stock adjusted for a rigid hold I won't need my strong hand for support...

...wait...

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Old 11-10-2009, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoWeird View Post
This thread has convinced me! I am going to go take the bullet button off my AR and put a MMG on it. After all, with the bulk of the weight support by the forward pistol grip while it's being pulled into the body, and the collapsable stock adjusted for a rigid hold I won't need my strong hand for support...

...wait...

True. But when you need to reload really quick, all you do is press a button...

...wait...

...grab your tool stick it in a hole to make for a slow and clumsy reload.

Both have their good parts.

IMO, featureless is better for quick magazine changing and tactical shooting.

BBs are better for bench resting.

I will be getting a grip slip and keep my BB and enjoy the best of both worlds.

IMO, that is the way to go.
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  #39  
Old 11-10-2009, 6:00 PM
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,,,

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Old 11-10-2009, 6:10 PM
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I read this whole thread, and figured I ought to post something, pistol grips on AR's seem to be (to me) a non issue, I enjoy wrapping my thumb around, it does not feel natural any other way, of course after 35 years why change from the way the rifle was meant to be used. Fast mag changes, so what,
if I haven't hit it with the first 3 rounds, I might as well go home.
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"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws" From Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
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