Federal Lawsuit filed against Ohio town for Open Carry detention.

[hoffmang]

This one should be amusing. OC works in states with an RKBA in the state constitution.

-Gene

[Telperion]

Works even better when the state supreme court explicitly ruled the state RKBA clause protected open carry.

[greg36f]

I have to say that although I have no desire to open carry, I support anyone’s right to do so.

Having said that, I feel that a lot of people that open carry; do so simply for the attention. Yes, it is your right, but you also KNOW that most people (including many police officers) have never seen this before and you KNOW that it is going to cause a commotion until open carry is prevalent.

At this point as an open carrier, you are on the cutting edge. You should expect the extra attention and hassle of being that person. Yes, there will be people (including police) that need to be educated. Yes, you may get guns pointed at you the first few times a police agency encounters one of you. Yes, at times (at least for now) it is going to be a huge hassle.

What bothers me is all the whining a lot of open carry guys do. You put yourself in that position to be "on the cutting edge".......You wanted the attention, well,,,You got it.......In this video, this guy was obviously one of the first in the area to open carry......Yep, big surprise, he got a gun pointed at him and the cops were not sure what was going on...... Sounds to me that it was a fairly quick detention (what 8 minutes long?), he got his gun back and he was sent on his way........If he had just shut the heck up during the take down, waited for the situation to stabilize and explained himself when things calmed down, it probably would have been a 6 minute detention. No one took his recorder or even objected to being taped.

Nate, I know that you have been doing this for a while and you have taken some lumps, but it seems to me that you are constantly looking for the next fight or at least celebrating when conflict arises. If you had a perfect encounter with law enforcement, you would go looking for a negative one. Or at least call dispatch looking for conflict related to the last perfect stop. I ‘m sure you are a hard working, dedicated guy and that you believe in this cause, but you seem to enjoy the conflict and attention a little too much…..

[Maestro Pistolero]

I have to say that although I have no desire to open carry, I support anyone’s right to do so.

Having said that, I feel that a lot of people that open carry; do so simply for the attention.

Of course. That is the whole point. But whether attention is gotten for the OC'r as an individual, or for the exercise of the right itself is largely irrelevant, assuming that the OC'r conducts him or herself in an informed, controlled, non-provocative way to whatever extent possible.

As a rule, I don't engage in OC'ing for all the usual reasons (and I now live in Nevada, where LOC is legal) but I must admit that the movement is accomplishing many of it objectives, namely a more informed police force, and to a lesser extent, a desensitized population. The latter will take a bit more time, but IMO is an inevitable result of skilled, knowledgable, and cool-headed OC'rs putting their collective rear-ends on the line for the right.

Like it or not, it's mostly working. A quick search will reveal LE dept. memos that have resulted in definitive changes in policy, and to some extent, attitude. Public opinion on the RKBA is at an all-time high in any recent history. It's very hard to argue with that kind of success.

While unfortunate (maybe) cases like Theseus' have the potential to set back the RTKBA, they also hae the potential to advance and clarify the right from a legal standpoint.

I'm not advocating UOC here, just pointing out some observations. I think the advice of CG's to hold off on UOC while key milestones are set in place is sound, wise, and prudent.

My 2 cents.

[Manic Moran]

"Is this America or Nazi Germany?" !?

What a plonker.

In fairness, the first words out of the female cop's mouth are good ones. "Exercise your right to remain silent". That is excellent advice. She screwed up later, granted.

NTM

[Carnivore]

Originally Posted by greg36f

What bothers me is all the whining a lot of open carry guys do. You put yourself in that position to be "on the cutting edge".......You wanted the attention, well,,,You got it.......In this video, this guy was obviously one of the first in the area to open carry......Yep, big surprise, he got a gun pointed at him and the cops were not sure what was going on.

What bothers me is a police force that ISN'T INFORMED!!! walking around with green hair is going to get you attention. You expect that the general population is going to look, gawk etc but when the police draw their guns an put you on the ground for having it, give me a break. I back law enforcement for doing their job. Part of that job SHOULD be knowing the law. To bad we excuse them at all for not knowing it. This isn't tech support for Dell we are talking about.

[Liberty1]

Originally Posted by greg36f

Having said that, I feel...

Welcome to CGN!

For a more expansive view of the reasons people choose exposed arms please read this: http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-...-argument.html

And rather then rehash the OC vs CC debate in this thread, I would ask that those inclined toward such exertions save our energy until after we have won "bear" in the courts. One would then hope that the manner of bearing will be left up to at least some level of personal choice, hopefully in the style of Arizona, when we can then argue situational tactics (I look forward to the debate later). For now I support no UOC in Ca. for political and legal reasons.

[Kid Stanislaus]

Originally Posted by JBird33

Good for him. Nothing worse than LEOs like that. There really should be some more stringent prerequisites to being LEO as far as I'm concerned.

Like maybe a requirement that they take an IQ test and score at least 100?

[Kid Stanislaus]

Originally Posted by Carnivore

What bothers me is a police force that ISN'T INFORMED!!! walking around with green hair is going to get you attention. You expect that the general population is going to look, gawk etc but when the police draw their guns an put you on the ground for having it, give me a break. I back law enforcement for doing their job. Part of that job SHOULD be knowing the law.

In a court of law you or I would be told that ignorance of the law is no excuse but when an LEO shows up in court ignorance of the law suddenly becomes fashionable!

[Liberty1]

Originally Posted by Kid Stanislaus

Like maybe a requirement that they take an IQ test and score at least 100?

Be nice...those two Officers and their dept. will get their due. Lets not drive away officers who are on the fence on this issue with our wit.

But considering OC has been a clear Court protected Ohio constitutional right since about 2004 there is no excuse for their behavior (and the fact that Terry v Ohio came from OHIO!).

I actually expect CA LE to adjust rather quickly and professionally once "bear" is more established. We shall see....