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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

View Poll Results: How much would you pay for Law Enforcement Credentials
$0 I don't want them at any price 380 15.34%
$100 308 12.43%
$500 730 29.47%
$1000 512 20.67%
$1500 102 4.12%
$2000 205 8.28%
$5000 127 5.13%
$10000 50 2.02%
$Whatever it takes I'll take out a second mortgage 63 2.54%
Voters: 2477. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2001  
Old 10-24-2011, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
Jan-April of 2013 iirc (don't quote me on that)


or did you mean 2012?
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  #2002  
Old 10-24-2011, 6:30 PM
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2013, Montana's legislature meets once every two years.

And frankly that's a good thing for us, even if it does seem a ways off.
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  #2003  
Old 10-24-2011, 6:31 PM
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Great work Ajax and everyone else! Keep it up Im thankful for all your efforts!
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  #2004  
Old 10-24-2011, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
2013, Montana's legislature meets once every two years.

And frankly that's a good thing for us, even if it does seem a ways off.
Bummer, I will probably be out of NYC by then.
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  #2005  
Old 10-24-2011, 6:39 PM
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Thanks cuda,

There are a lot of people putting in effort, resources, and absurd amounts of time to make this a reality, and I really want to stress that it's the unsung guys working dilligently in the background who are really making this happen.

And I know this seems like it's taking forever, but i like to think of it in the terms of the old proverb about the old bull and the young bull,

Right now we're "walking down"

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  #2006  
Old 10-24-2011, 7:37 PM
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For those of you who like to monitor such things, the fed ex tracking number is : 524420815020072
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  #2007  
Old 10-24-2011, 7:50 PM
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So let's assume that NPI hits at the same time that places like Santa Clara County go shall issue. (I will let the laughter die down on the second part.)
What do you see as some benefits for me to go with the NPI program? No roster? No magazine limit in my handgun?

If I was called upon to try for an LTC in SCC, would a denial get me frowned down on in the eyes of Montana and the NPI program?
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  #2008  
Old 10-24-2011, 7:51 PM
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So let's assume that NPI hits at the same time that places like Santa Clara County go shall issue. (I will let the laughter die down on the second part.)
What do you see as some benefits for me to go with the NPI program? No roster? No magazine limit in my handgun?

If I was called upon to try for an LTC in SCC, would a denial get me frowned down on in the eyes of Montana and the NPI program?
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"The Roster of Death; Criminals Can Have Any Gun They Want, YOU CAN'T! Now, DIE!"
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"Controlling crime by regulating guns is like controlling obesity by regulating the size of spoons." - Lou Gohmert (R) Congressman from Texas; Appeared on Fox News on 16 January 2011
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  #2009  
Old 10-24-2011, 8:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monticore View Post
So let's assume that NPI hits at the same time that places like Santa Clara County go shall issue. (I will let the laughter die down on the second part.)
What do you see as some benefits for me to go with the NPI program? No roster? No magazine limit in my handgun?

If I was called upon to try for an LTC in SCC, would a denial get me frowned down on in the eyes of Montana and the NPI program?


Your LTC from SCC won't let you carry in, for instance, NYC or DC or Chicago. The Montana program would. That's the biggest difference. You'll have 50-state carry.

As far as a denial from SCC hurting your chances under the Montana program ... it depends on the problem. In and of itself, no, a denial isn't a problem. The underlying reasons for the denial, however, may be a concern. If the LTC was denied because you put "self defense" as your good cause, then no. Not a problem. If the LTC was denied because you're a pederast (and I'm not saying you are, obviously! ) then, yeah, you'll have an issue. Montana (or any other state that adopts the NPI's model legislation) will conduct their own independent background check according to their own standards.
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  #2010  
Old 10-24-2011, 9:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ALSystems View Post
Yes, but I believe it goes further than that.

Take a look at the website for details:
http://www.ccwforall.com/

Look at the document section.
I'm sorry, but this is just confusing me even more, and raising even more questions than it answers.
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  #2011  
Old 10-24-2011, 9:26 PM
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it seemed simple to me. No roster, no mag limits, carry nationwide.
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  #2012  
Old 10-24-2011, 9:46 PM
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Roster and mag issues are not the primary focus as they hinge somewhat on CA interpretation and may not play out in an ideal fashion.

Let's keep the focus on carry, other perks may manifest but are not guaranteed.
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  #2013  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:25 PM
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Based on the update, looks like a bad idea. I am happy enough to have shall issue LTC. The text of the proposed law is a nightmare, especially when it gets into:
Quote:
general law enforcement duties, that require specialized skills, training, and qualifications, who may be required to train with a firearm, and who may carry a firearm while on assigned duty as provided in 7-32-239.
and
Quote:
investigation of violations of law, who may carry a firearm as provided in 7-32-241 and has arrest authority, as described in 46-6-209
When you get to discussing "other than general law enforcement duties" which include arrest authority and being armed while not under direct supervision/representation of the governing authority you head into dangerous waters.
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  #2014  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:44 PM
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Wow!! I just spent the last several hours reading this entire thread!! All my question have been answered.. I fully support this idea now... Need a few more buck in the donation ring.. I am in!!
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  #2015  
Old 10-24-2011, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Uriah02 View Post
Based on the update, looks like a bad idea. I am happy enough to have shall issue LTC. The text of the proposed law is a nightmare, especially when it gets into:

and


When you get to discussing "other than general law enforcement duties" which include arrest authority and being armed while not under direct supervision/representation of the governing authority you head into dangerous waters.
Must be nice living in Texas.
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  #2016  
Old 10-24-2011, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uriah02 View Post
Based on the update, looks like a bad idea. I am happy enough to have shall issue LTC. The text of the proposed law is a nightmare, especially when it gets into:

and


When you get to discussing "other than general law enforcement duties" which include arrest authority and being armed while not under direct supervision/representation of the governing authority you head into dangerous waters.
all citizens have arrest powers. We have just vacated these to police in modern time and court interpretation. You can still citizens arrest for a malicious act.

why does that line bother you?
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  #2017  
Old 10-25-2011, 6:43 AM
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Don't have too much money available at the moment, but I'm in. Small donation is sent.
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  #2018  
Old 10-25-2011, 6:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mag360 View Post
all citizens have arrest powers. We have just vacated these to police in modern time and court interpretation. You can still citizens arrest for a malicious act.

why does that line bother you?
I usually can get out of a citizens arrest yelling and screaming "Don't tase me Bro!"
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  #2019  
Old 10-25-2011, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
2013, Montana's legislature meets once every two years.

And frankly that's a good thing for us, even if it does seem a ways off.
Off topic, but I just got a big fat rubbery one fantasizing about a legislature that only meets every 2 years...
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  #2020  
Old 10-25-2011, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
Roster and mag issues are not the primary focus as they hinge somewhat on CA interpretation and may not play out in an ideal fashion.

Let's keep the focus on carry, other perks may manifest but are not guaranteed.
See, this is more of what I was figuring. Also, a big bonus appears to be NATION WIDE carry, as in no restrictions by lack of state reciprocity or non-issue issues.
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  #2021  
Old 10-25-2011, 5:00 PM
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$50 sent - Paypal in gift mode ended up having no fee!
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  #2022  
Old 10-25-2011, 5:16 PM
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What the heck is going on in here? I tried visiting the website but it needs a little more detail. So it looks like you guys are trying to create a LEO position in Montana for oppressed non-residents that wish to carry concealed? I hope I understood correctly. Sounds like an interesting plan.

Last edited by Brianguy; 10-25-2011 at 5:19 PM..
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  #2023  
Old 10-25-2011, 10:12 PM
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Quick update,

I cut the cashiers check for 3K, but haven't received final approval on the contract language (have to be very careful to CYA on this stuff) so it hasn't gone out yet.. should have it together and out tomorrow.
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  #2024  
Old 10-25-2011, 11:17 PM
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What the heck is going on in here? I tried visiting the website but it needs a little more detail. So it looks like you guys are trying to create a LEO position in Montana for oppressed non-residents that wish to carry concealed? I hope I understood correctly. Sounds like an interesting plan.
Geez, man! Can't you just go back and read the 2022 posts before yours, so you'll know what's going on?





Actually, don't bother. You pretty much got it right.......

.
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  #2025  
Old 10-25-2011, 11:45 PM
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Geez, man! Can't you just go back and read the 2022 posts before yours, so you'll know what's going on?





Actually, don't bother. You pretty much got it right.......

.
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  #2026  
Old 10-26-2011, 1:05 AM
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So the Montana legislator meets Jan-April 2013. That's just over a year from now. Not too bad. This is when they would vote on it right...so when would it become effective, January 2014? Or immediately after they vote? Just curious. I'm pretty excited and actually optimistic about this, just want to have realistic expectations on how long we have to wait.

Also, I'm assuming we would have to travel to Montana to sign up? I would love to have a reason to go there to spend a couple of weeks, really beautiful state and would be happy to spend money there supporting the local economy.
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  #2027  
Old 10-26-2011, 9:55 AM
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The way the plan is currently envisioned no travel to montana eould be required. (Although there is talk of optional training classes which may be made available for participants)

In theory if the legislatire votes this into reality and we have all the forms, admin structure, training materials etc. In place... then it could be available in 2013 f
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  #2028  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:27 PM
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Why not just join your local sheriffs Search and Rescue team?

The rest of this business is bogus and seemly.
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  #2029  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:34 PM
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Why not just join your local sheriffs Search and Rescue team?

The rest of this business is bogus and seemly.
Definition of seemly please?
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  #2030  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:49 PM
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Definition of seemly please?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/seemly

seem·ly (sml)
adj. seem·li·er, seem·li·est
1. Conforming to standards of conduct and good taste; suitable: seemly behavior.
2. Of pleasing appearance; handsome.
adv.
In a seemly manner; suitably.

I think he actually means unseemly...
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  #2031  
Old 10-26-2011, 1:03 PM
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Yeah, I think it was a failure of vocab as well. Maybe he got seemly and seedy mixed up ?

Orrrrr, he's just showing his ironic hipster support in a roundabout way?


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http://www.thefreedictionary.com/seemly

seem·ly (sml)
adj. seem·li·er, seem·li·est
1. Conforming to standards of conduct and good taste; suitable: seemly behavior.
2. Of pleasing appearance; handsome.
adv.
In a seemly manner; suitably.

I think he actually means unseemly...
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  #2032  
Old 10-26-2011, 1:07 PM
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Originally Posted by marcusrn View Post
Why not just join your local sheriffs Search and Rescue team?

The rest of this business is bogus and seemly.
Because, amongst other things, joining volunteer sheriff teams does not guarantee you a LTC/CCW. This especially so in the vary areas that it is hard to get an LTC in.
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  #2033  
Old 10-26-2011, 1:10 PM
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Why not just join your local sheriffs Search and Rescue team?
OMG WHY DIDN'T WE ALL THINK OF THIS???!!!

/sarcasm (for the humorously challenged).
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  #2034  
Old 10-27-2011, 1:44 AM
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Why not just join your local sheriffs Search and Rescue team?

The rest of this business is bogus and seemly.
I just knew if we waited long enough someone would come along that hasn't even read 10% of the thread and find the fatal flaw we've overlooked for the last two years. Thank you so much! Now we can all realize this is just a pipe dream and move on with our lives...


Seriously, I realize that reading this whole thread is a daunting task. 2,034 posts and counting, it is a lot. But some of us have read the whole thing, and it gets really old to have someone come along and post about something that was hashed out months or years ago as if they have all the answers after reading 2 or 3 posts. Maybe we could start a thread for all the people posting the negative stuff that's already been posted over and over again on this thread. Then maybe we would only have a thousand or so posts to read to get up to speed.

And before I forget, major thanks again to Ajax and everyone else that has taken this project this far. When finances allow I will be in for another donation.
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  #2035  
Old 10-27-2011, 8:54 AM
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I've kept up with this thread off and on since day one but somewhere in in all the updates I seam to have missed the cost to us, back to the title: what will I have to pay to have valid LEO credentials issued to me?
This is something I am interested in, as my county has some stupid policies about LTC and no one on Calguns seams to care about Nevada County enough to help me fight it (I'm just a grunt, I have no idea how to get it done on my own)
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  #2036  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by marcusrn View Post
Why not just join your local sheriffs Search and Rescue team?

The rest of this business is bogus and seemly.
I think as you hang out here a little longer you'll find that most folks here at CalGuns are more interested in fixing unconstitutional abuses by public officials in their "discretion" than they are in making political donations in order to obtain fundamental civil rights.
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  #2037  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:14 AM
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I've kept up with this thread off and on since day one but somewhere in in all the updates I seam to have missed the cost to us, back to the title: what will I have to pay to have valid LEO credentials issued to me?
This is something I am interested in, as my county has some stupid policies about LTC and no one on Calguns seams to care about Nevada County enough to help me fight it (I'm just a grunt, I have no idea how to get it done on my own)
I looked through the Nevada County thread and I didn't see any posts by you.
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  #2038  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:25 AM
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Why not just join your local sheriffs Search and Rescue team?
That doesn't give you a LTC in California and even if it did, a California LTC doesn't do any good when you're traveling in NY, IL, HI, etc. The local sheriff's S&R has nothing to do with this thread.

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Originally Posted by marcusrn View Post
The rest of this business is bogus and seemly.
You mean HR218 is bogus and smelly? If that's what you're saying then I could almost agree with you, because HR218 treats certain people as privileged class, something which is incompatible with American law. One way to fix that would be to make it possible for most ordinary people to be members of that class if they chose to, and that's what this is doing. All this is doing is opening up HR218 type of protection to a wider group of people. Maybe you think that only people who have been sprinkled with magical pixie dust have a right to HR218? Maybe there should be some farcical aquatic ceremony?



Maybe LEOs earned the right to carry a gun just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at them?
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Old 10-28-2011, 1:10 AM
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Ajax...is it really ccw you want...are a way to get around the NFA?
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Old 10-28-2011, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziegenbock View Post
Ajax...is it really ccw you want...are a way to get around the NFA?
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