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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-19-2017, 3:52 AM
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Default 2017 AB1471 - Travis Allen - Firearms: silencers

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...01720180AB1471

AB 1471 - Travis Allen. Firearms: silencers.

Existing law generally makes it a felony for any person, firm, or corporation to possess a silencer within this state. Existing law exempts from that prohibition the sale to, purchase by, or possession by certain law enforcement agencies of a silencer for use in the discharge of their official duties, or possession by peace officers employed by those law enforcement agencies.

This bill would make the crime of possessing a silencer inapplicable to the sale to, purchase by, or possession by the Department of the California Highway Patrol, the Department of Fish and Wildlife, and the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, the possession by peace officers employed by those agencies, or the sale or other transfer in interstate or foreign commerce by registered dealers or manufacturers when the sale or other transfer is in accordance with federal law.
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Old 02-19-2017, 5:17 AM
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So ANOTHER LE carve out?
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Old 02-19-2017, 5:25 AM
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So ANOTHER LE carve out?
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Old 02-19-2017, 6:14 AM
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The legislature sees our boys in blue as a protected class that enjoy more liberties than regular citizens.
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Old 02-19-2017, 6:16 AM
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So ANOTHER LE carve out?
Yupper!

And we will hear silence from the LEO community.
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Old 02-19-2017, 6:20 AM
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And we will hear silence from the LEO community.
Nice!


Added: We civilians will continue to be suppressed...
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Old 02-19-2017, 7:17 AM
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this is getting ridiculous with the LE exemptions laws
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Old 02-19-2017, 9:23 AM
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The recourse is for all of us to become volunteer police officers.
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Old 02-19-2017, 9:31 AM
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this is getting ridiculous with the LE exemptions laws
It's infuriating.

They're trying to get LE support for maintaining the suppressor ban in CA, in anticipation that the rest of the country lifts the ban soon.

These legislators are so transparent, that it's becoming insulting.

Hopefully this is just an early version that gets revised later to exempt everyone else, since this guy is supposed to be on our side.
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Old 02-19-2017, 9:48 AM
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The legislature sees our boys in blue as a protected class that enjoy more liberties than regular citizens.
They have to have their army well equipped for when we peasants revolt against their tyranny.
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Old 02-19-2017, 10:17 AM
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The last part looks like more than just LE to me.


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Old 02-19-2017, 10:43 AM
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The last part looks like more than just LE to me.


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This part?

(d) The sale or other transfer of silencers in interstate or foreign commerce by dealers or manufacturers described in subdivision (c) when the sale or other transfer is in accordance with federal law.

Sounds like like a pretty narrow exemption. Basically it authorizes dealers and manufacturers to buy and sell suppressors to/from anywhere besides CA. Still doesn't help us.


I know the authors mean well, but honestly this bill does more harm than good. The authors probably are thinking "baby steps are better than nothing", but in this case I think they'd be wrong. If this passes, it makes statewide legalization of suppressors even more difficult to achieve than before.
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Old 02-19-2017, 1:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
This part?

(d) The sale or other transfer of silencers in interstate or foreign commerce by dealers or manufacturers described in subdivision (c) when the sale or other transfer is in accordance with federal law.

Sounds like like a pretty narrow exemption. Basically it authorizes dealers and manufacturers to buy and sell suppressors to/from anywhere besides CA. Still doesn't help us.


I know the authors mean well, but honestly this bill does more harm than good. The authors probably are thinking "baby steps are better than nothing", but in this case I think they'd be wrong. If this passes, it makes statewide legalization of suppressors even more difficult to achieve than before.
Or possibly easier on 14th Amendment "Equal Protection" grounds. All LE exemptions for "Civilian Police" are blatantly Unconstitutional. But like all things Pro 2A in CrapOfornia. That would require a law suit and 15 yrs of waiting.
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Old 02-19-2017, 1:29 PM
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Or possibly easier on 14th Amendment "Equal Protection" grounds. All LE exemptions for "Civilian Police" are blatantly Unconstitutional. But like all things Pro 2A in CrapOfornia. That would require a law suit and 15 yrs of waiting.
It's too small of a difference to really add much to that argument. If that argument doesn't already work for all the other stuff LE can have that we can't, then adding suppressors to that list isn't going to change much. Roster handguns is a far more blatant infringement, and the courts haven't even agreed with us about that yet.
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Old 02-19-2017, 4:14 PM
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All this law does is add CHP, CDCR, and Fish and Wildlife to the exception that already exists for police and sheriffs. It only allows possession of silencers owned by the agency by their full time employees. It does not allow personal ownership for those employees.

This bill doesn't really change much.
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Old 02-19-2017, 7:52 PM
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This is incredibly aggravating. I think the politicians realize that the LEO community is the only group that can can make a real difference so they are just trying keep them happy. And it's working. I like to think that as a law abiding citizen we are on the same side as law enforcement, but as they keep accepting these carve outs and keep mostly silent on the issue I have been getting more of a "us vs them" mentality lately.
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  #17  
Old 02-20-2017, 5:46 AM
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Originally Posted by humboldt_7.62 View Post
This is incredibly aggravating. I think the politicians realize that the LEO community is the only group that can can make a real difference so they are just trying keep them happy. And it's working. I like to think that as a law abiding citizen we are on the same side as law enforcement, but as they keep accepting these carve outs and keep mostly silent on the issue I have been getting more of a "us vs them" mentality lately.


They are probably counting on them for protection when Kalifornia secede from the union, as they realized the National Guards are filled with Trump supporters. Liberals are in for a rude awakening.


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Old 02-20-2017, 6:16 AM
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They have to have their army well equipped for when we peasants revolt against their tyranny.
You're out of your mind if you think the majority of coppers like myself are going to stand with the government in tyranny. We will all be standing right beside you.
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Old 02-20-2017, 9:19 AM
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You're out of your mind if you think the majority of coppers like myself are going to stand with the government in tyranny. We will all be standing right beside you.
What are you waiting for? Your own unions are supporting tyranny right now. Get "everyone" else to "stand" behind us TODAY and influence your your union(s) TODAY.
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:25 AM
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You're out of your mind if you think the majority of coppers like myself are going to stand with the government in tyranny. We will all be standing right beside you.
Yet you are still an "(unjust) law enforcement officer," right?

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Old 02-20-2017, 10:35 AM
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If the police unions had any integrity, they would reject this shameless ploy and openly campaign against it.
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Old 02-21-2017, 10:30 AM
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If the police unions had any integrity, they would reject this shameless ploy and openly campaign against it.
Indeed.

But that is about as likely as Deleon ordering his own illegal family deported.
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:00 AM
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Indeed.

But that is about as likely as Deleon ordering his own illegal family deported.
The name on his birth certificate isn’t Kevin de León.

(Snip)

On his birth certificate and voter rolls... the 50-year-old politician is Kevin Alexander Leon.


Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-...#storylink=cpy
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:01 AM
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What a wanker.
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:05 AM
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What a wanker.
It's no different than when Barry Obama decided that the name everyone called him by didn't make him sound enough like a persecuted minority, so he went back to Barack when he started a political career to gain favor with his constituents.

But it should surprise nobody to hear that politicians have a tendency to be manipulative and misleading.
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Old 02-22-2017, 5:00 AM
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You're out of your mind if you think the majority of coppers like myself are going to stand with the government in tyranny. We will all be standing right beside you.
WARNING: "Johnsta=DOJ plant!.

No police officer in the US ever uses the term "coppers".

Nice try pal, but I have been around longer then you have.

Your trolling days are OVER with here, pal. Be gone with you and your
54 posts.
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Old 02-22-2017, 5:42 AM
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LE unions getting carve outs and thabk yous from democrats for supporting them last year.
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Old 02-22-2017, 8:49 AM
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Couldn't a ground be found that if it's okay for police to have X, we can have X, as neither police or civilian are military, and that if X is approved to defend the streets, it should be approved to defend the home?
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Old 02-22-2017, 9:09 AM
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Couldn't a ground be found that if it's okay for police to have X, we can have X, as neither police or civilian are military, and that if X is approved to defend the streets, it should be approved to defend the home?
Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Why, exactly, do they want LE to have suppressors? It isn't so that they can carry out top-secret ninja-style assassinations like in the movies - it's so that in the event they have to use their weapon without hearing protection, they won't damage their hearing. But for some reason when WE want suppressors, now suddenly it has nothing to do with our saving our hearing - it has to be because we all want to carry out top-secret ninja-style assassinations like in the movies
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Old 02-22-2017, 9:12 AM
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Couldn't a ground be found that if it's okay for police to have X, we can have X, as neither police or civilian are military, and that if X is approved to defend the streets, it should be approved to defend the home?
Couldn't it be found, that all of our gun laws in CA are nonsense, if we had non-idiot majority voters and career criminals in the state legislature?

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Old 02-22-2017, 9:34 AM
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Couldn't it be found, that all of our gun laws in CA are nonsense, if we had non-idiot majority voters and career criminals in the state legislature?

A.W.D.
At this point it's too late to worry about idiot voters and career criminal legislators, with so many laws, I'm pretty sure the only thing we can do is repeal, which means finding a basis for challenge, and pushing up to SCOTUS. Let Trump and ICE deport what's the basis for DeLeon's power, let DHs build the wall. The rest should predictably destroy themselves.

I think it's pretty clear that police are not mil, and if more laws enabling police to use X, less of a defense against us trying to do the same.

I find it highly ironic, that police SBRs, and Supressors, will be used to to enforce the law against groups with progressive flair. Please, let them use tanks and air strikes also.
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Old 02-24-2017, 4:47 AM
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LE unions getting carve outs and thabk yous from democrats for supporting them last year.
Of course the Dems are going to support the police. Who do you think they will be sending to seize your registered "AW"s when the complete ban on semi-auto's begin? The police are not here to protect you. They only enforce
the laws, even if those laws are against the Constitution, they all swore an oath to uphold and protect.

Q: Why do so many police and sheriffs departments need MRAPS these days?

It might be in a couple of years, or 10 years, but make no mistake: they do indeed want your firearms and your ammunition as well. After all, they dont care about the Constitution and have openly spoken so in Sacramento.

You people need to re-read Patrick Henry's speech to know why kind of enemy you are fighting:

https://www.history.org/almanack/lif...ics/giveme.cfm

This is how tyranny begins. You simply need to draw a line in the sand that, if crossed, leads to a new freedom, if you choose to do so. Its all up to you.

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Old 02-24-2017, 8:24 AM
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Of course the Dems are going to support the police. Who do you think they will be sending to seize your registered "AW"s when the complete ban on semi-auto's begin? The police are not here to protect you. They only enforce
the laws, even if those laws are against the Constitution, they all swore an oath to uphold and protect.

Q: Why do so many police and sheriffs departments need MRAPS these days?

It might be in a couple of years, or 10 years, but make no mistake: they do indeed want your firearms and your ammunition as well. After all, they dont care about the Constitution and have openly spoken so in Sacramento.

You people need to re-read Patrick Henry's speech to know why kind of enemy you are fighting:

https://www.history.org/almanack/lif...ics/giveme.cfm

This is how tyranny begins. You simply need to draw a line in the sand that, if crossed, leads to a new freedom, if you choose to do so. Its all up to you.
Talk about painting with a broad brush... most LEO are good people and ARE doing their job to keep their community safe. Some are bad apples, sure. Like in any other line of work. You watch way too much youtube. Go outdoors, the weather is great right now.
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Old 02-24-2017, 9:28 AM
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Default Wouldn't it be hilarious...

Wouldn't it be a hoot if all these new special-case LEO-only bills got all sorts of support, and then right before going to the final vote, the wording was changed to remove the LEO-only parts (or to extend them outside of LEO-only)? And it opened all these things up to the general citizenry as a result?

Sorry, forgot I was in Kalifornia there just for a bit not frickin' likely
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Old 02-24-2017, 11:44 AM
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Talk about painting with a broad brush... most LEO are good people and ARE doing their job to keep their community safe. Some are bad apples, sure. Like in any other line of work. You watch way too much youtube. Go outdoors, the weather is great right now.
You can choose to suck up to LE if you wish too. I am much older then you are, and I have seen just how corrupt much of law enforcement really is with my own eyes, becuase I grew up in a time when there were NO cellphones or Internet.

When they come a' knocking down your door, get back to me on that C&G'ed.

Its a proven fact that the police are under NO obligation to protect you, yet they can carry a piece in CA whenever and wherever they want to and the same goes for their kinfolk, who can easily obtain a carry-permit, while many citizens cannot.

The police only have one duty: to enforce the laws, and they DO chose to enforce one's that they themselves have broken, like a pack of hypocrites.
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Old 02-24-2017, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by humboldt_7.62 View Post
This is incredibly aggravating. I think the politicians realize that the LEO community is the only group that can can make a real difference so they are just trying keep them happy. And it's working. I like to think that as a law abiding citizen we are on the same side as law enforcement, but as they keep accepting these carve outs and keep mostly silent on the issue I have been getting more of a "us vs them" mentality lately.
As well you should, sir. That's exactly right. It really is an "us vs. them" mentality with LE.

Sure, there are good LE officers out there, but year after year it has become worse, and not just in California either.

The problem you have in CA is that Sacramento keeps right passing unjust and unconstitutional laws, which these CITIZENS enforce, since they have no skin in the game and are exempt from these laws.
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Old 02-24-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by oilcanhenry View Post
You can choose to suck up to LE if you wish too. I am much older then you are, and I have seen just how corrupt much of law enforcement really is with my own eyes, becuase I grew up in a time when there were NO cellphones or Internet.

When they come a' knocking down your door, get back to me on that C&G'ed.

Its a proven fact that the police are under NO obligation to protect you, yet they can carry a piece in CA whenever and wherever they want to and the same goes for their kinfolk, who can easily obtain a carry-permit, while many citizens cannot.

The police only have one duty: to enforce the laws, and they DO chose to enforce one's that they themselves have broken, like a pack of hypocrites.
To be fair, law enforcement during my 34 years of life has been completely different than what law enforcement was like during your first 34 years of life. So I'm not really sure how age plays into it, since your experience of LE from 40+ years ago is hardly relevant to the world we live in now. I would say that you have the upper hand because you got to watch that transformation first-hand while I only heard about it 2nd-hand, but evidently you don't believe such a transformation ever even occurred, which I believe is a minority fringe opinion.

You make it sound as if every single LEO there is, wants nothing more than to control us and punish everyone. That's just and no amount of playing the age card is going to convince me otherwise, sorry.

Additionally, I largely agree with you on your OTHER points. LEO's should NOT be more powerful than normal citizens, and should not get special treatment and special access to stuff we can't get. On that, we absolutely agree. But I also happen to have nothing but good things to say about the LEO's that I have met.

Sounds to me like you had one bad run-in with an LEO (or maybe many bad run-ins) at some point in your life, and it soured you against all LEO's. Whether or not you admit that in here, you know I'm right about that.
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Old 02-24-2017, 1:13 PM
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Why, exactly, do they want LE to have suppressors?
The LEOs are going to be the Democraps state militia during the Calexit civil war.
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Old 02-24-2017, 2:30 PM
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To be fair, law enforcement during my 34 years of life has been completely different than what law enforcement was like during your first 34 years of life. So I'm not really sure how age plays into it, since your experience of LE from 40+ years ago is hardly relevant to the world we live in now. I would say that you have the upper hand because you got to watch that transformation first-hand while I only heard about it 2nd-hand, but evidently you don't believe such a transformation ever even occurred, which I believe is a minority fringe opinion.

You make it sound as if every single LEO there is, wants nothing more than to control us and punish everyone. That's just and no amount of playing the age card is going to convince me otherwise, sorry.

Additionally, I largely agree with you on your OTHER points. LEO's should NOT be more powerful than normal citizens, and should not get special treatment and special access to stuff we can't get. On that, we absolutely agree. But I also happen to have nothing but good things to say about the LEO's that I have met.

Sounds to me like you had one bad run-in with an LEO (or maybe many bad run-ins) at some point in your life, and it soured you against all LEO's. Whether or not you admit that in here, you know I'm right about that.
Well, dismissing me with your remark about spending too much time on Youtube and getting out and enjoying the weather, didn't help your case with me all that much. but I'll let that slide since you dont know me at all.

I'd say we need to have a polite conversation, don't you agree? I think we can agree that Sacramento has pushed gun-control to the very limits, if all the gun and ammo control laws Gov. Brown signed are approved by the OAL.

Now back to the subject at hand. Yes, I am old enough to be your father, so I have seen the police change over time, that is true enough.

I can remember when there were NO SWAT teams and when I was a lad the only machine-gun that some LE had was a Thompson submachine gun back at the station-house. Six-shot pistols were commom, not the 19 round Glocks were commonplace, although the venerable .357 Magnum was pretty common.

Now, even park rangers who were previously unarmed for the most part, carry an AR-15 or a Mini-14 on the rack and most police or sheriff deputies have full-auto M-16's or M-4's.

As for my experiences with the cops, yes I have had many incidents and encounters with them, since I was a truck driver for most all of my working life, both self-employed and working for others.

At this point, please don't assume that I am some dumb driver as so many people do. My IQ is 140, but I loved driving anything and I was and still am a professional driver. It's what I do best and when you love what you do, you don't really "work" a day in your life.

Back to topic: I used to work night-shifts delivering items into places (gangland/ghettoes) that even the police _feared_ to go, without three squad cars with two cops per car, going well over the speed limit, bumper to bumper, even over the speed bumps, while I was out there all alone.

They were afraid that some gang-members might shoot them with an illegal AK that NO gun-law at all would have stopped them from carrying, since they are already felons and any legal machine-guns need a BATF tax stamp to own.

Of course, in CA even that is illegal to do, so I left one day for the SOJ. I still have kinfolk and property there, which is why I am here on Calguns. I was born and raised in California. It used to be a really nice state, but not anymore, it isn't. 39 million folk, and how many illegals living there now?

I have never called upon, nor thought LE was ever there to protect me, personally. When the stuff hits the fan, the cops are minutes, not seconds away, and they are not beholding to protect anyone, just enforce laws and protect the public _in general_, not in person.

"To protect and serve" on the sides of their patrol vehicles is a really, really bad joke, IMO.

You understand all of this, I would hope. And perhaps you understand where I am coming from now. No, I don't hate LE, but I know my history quite well.

One day they will indeed be coming for your firearms, no matter how much you try to comply with the unconstitutional laws that they push, all in the name of safety, as always.
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Old 02-24-2017, 2:44 PM
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The legislature sees our boys in blue as a protected class that enjoy more liberties than regular citizens.
FIFY

The legislature pays off the boys in blue to ensure they support and enforce the trampling of rights for "less than equals".
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