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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 12-27-2015, 3:22 PM
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Default PROP 1756 - Gavins Ballot Proposal - now gathering signatures

I tried looking up on Ballotpedia on the status of his ballot proposal. Does anyone have an update on the status of the ballot proposal other then its lacking money.

Thank you

//
// Status update: 12/31/2015 moved to 'may gather signatures'
//
// Librarian
//

Last edited by Librarian; 01-01-2016 at 12:34 PM..
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  #2  
Old 12-27-2015, 3:35 PM
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It's not a fast process. You have to get it cleared for circulation and then they have 150 days to get the signatures. If it's not going well they can revise the text and resubmit and that restarts the clock.

Generally people pay signature gatherers to collect the signatures and that's the big initial financial outlay. As I recall it's something like a million bucks unless you're proposing something really crazy then it might be more or you have a ton of volunteers when it might be less.
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  #3  
Old 12-27-2015, 3:43 PM
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I tried to volunteer for them but they do not get back to me.
I will try more after the holidays. Apparently DeLeon did not like him stealing his thunder and pulled people from this effort.
Maybe with some luck it won't get off the ground.
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Old 12-27-2015, 3:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
Maybe with some luck it won't get off the ground.
We can only hope, but this state can't seem to get enough arbitrary, capricious and ineffective gun control legislation.
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  #5  
Old 12-27-2015, 4:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
I tried to volunteer for them but they do not get back to me.
I will try more after the holidays. Apparently DeLeon did not like him stealing his thunder and pulled people from this effort.
Maybe with some luck it won't get off the ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jilted View Post
We can only hope, but this state can't seem to get enough arbitrary, capricious and ineffective gun control legislation.
the legislature will use what is on the ballot for next session. that is my prediction for what they want to do next year. as for anything else I have no idea.

I have a feeling that they are going to go full retard next year.
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
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contact the governor
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  #6  
Old 12-27-2015, 5:06 PM
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Still at the AG's office for vetting - http://www.oag.ca.gov/initiatives/active-measures
Quote:
15-0098
"The Safety for All Act of 2016"
Fiscal Impact Estimate Report
Proponent(s):
Gavin Newsom
Submitted for Title and Summary on October 27, 2015
Amendment submitted Dec 4.
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  #7  
Old 12-27-2015, 7:41 PM
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Default GN Init.

Question. Is there enough time to submit are own measure and still meet all of the deadlines if we bust our butts?
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  #8  
Old 12-27-2015, 7:46 PM
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kamala wants to be governor too, as does DeLeon. So I think neither will work to hard to get Gavin's grandstanding launched. Ironic that their grasping for power will be the thing that stops his grab.
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  #9  
Old 12-27-2015, 8:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
Question. Is there enough time to submit are own measure and still meet all of the deadlines if we bust our butts?
Sideways answer: we can't win, so there's no point.

Short explanation: the media hates guns, so all coverage would be both free and anti-gun. The media is also unwilling to accept pro-gun (pro-initiative) ads.

See the long explanation: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=156804
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2015, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Sideways answer: we can't win, so there's no point.

Short explanation: the media hates guns, so all coverage would be both free and anti-gun. The media is also unwilling to accept pro-gun (pro-initiative) ads.

See the long explanation: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=156804
So no help from an unbiased media in California? Will we ever get to toss the bullet button?

Smart people know the answer, dreamers don't.
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  #11  
Old 12-31-2015, 4:45 PM
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FPC release: https://www.fpcsadc.org/2015/12/31/n...-by-ag-harris/

Now Proposition 1756

http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/ballo...d-circulation/

Quote:
1756. (15-0098A1)
Firearms. Ammunition Sales. Initiative Statute.
Summary Date: 12/31/2015 | Circulation Deadline: 06/28/16 | Signatures Required: 365,880
Gavin Newsom c/o Thomas A. Willis and Margaret R. Prinzing (510) 346-6200

Prohibits possession of large-capacity ammunition magazines, and requires their disposal by sale to dealer, destruction, or removal from state. Requires most individuals to pass background check and obtain Department of Justice authorization to purchase ammunition. Requires most ammunition sales be made through licensed ammunition vendors and reported to Department of Justice. Requires lost or stolen firearms and ammunition be reported to law enforcement. Prohibits persons convicted of stealing a firearm from possessing firearms. Establishes new procedures for enforcing laws prohibiting firearm possession by felons and violent criminals. Requires Department of Justice to provide information about prohibited persons to federal National Instant Criminal Background Check System. Summary of estimate by Legislative Analyst and Director of Finance of fiscal impact on state and local government: Increased state costs in the tens of millions of dollars annually related to regulating ammunition sales, likely offset by various regulatory fees authorized by the measure. Increase in court and law enforcement costs, not likely to exceed the tens of millions of dollars annually, related to removing firearms from prohibited persons as part of court sentencing proceedings. These costs could be offset to some extent by fees authorized by the measure. Potential increase in state and local correctional costs, not likely to exceed the low millions of dollars annually, related to new and increased penalties. (15-0098.) (Full Text)
Full text link: http://www.oag.ca.gov/system/files/i...earms%29_0.pdf
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  #12  
Old 12-31-2015, 5:21 PM
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so do we think they will get enough signatures for this to move on?
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  #13  
Old 12-31-2015, 5:28 PM
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Shenanigans!!!! Sacramento is so far out touch from reality and what the avarage Californian goes through on daily. we struggle to provode for our families, get our kids through school and beyond to college, we fight hard to make our children decent American productive citizens.

We have two fronts, two threats we face the common criminal and Sacramento legislators who only find ways to take our rights and divide our community into three.... Criminals, Law Enforcement and the law abiding citizen.

Treason is what Sacramento cooks on a daily while we pay to make the t happen. It seems like California will make everyone into a felon at some point, even maybe my grandma.
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  #14  
Old 12-31-2015, 6:45 PM
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Default The detailed lowlights

Note there are many dates embedded - different provisions would take effect in different years should this pass.

Adds
Quote:
25250. (a) Commencing July 1, 2017, every person shall report the loss or theft of a firearm he or she
owns or possesses to a local law enforcement agency in the jurisdiction in which the theft or loss
occurred within five days of the time he or she knew or reasonably should have known that the
firearm had been stolen or lost.

25265. (a) Every person who violates Section 25250 is, for a first violation, guilty of an infraction
punishable by a fine not to exceed one hundred dollars ($100).
(b) Every person who violates Section 25250 is, for a second violation, guilty of an infraction,
punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000).
(c) Every person who violates Section 25250 is, for a third or subsequent violation, guilty of a
misdemeanor,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding six months, or by a fine not
to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
Adds prohibition on possession of large-cap mags to PC 32310
Quote:
(c) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in
Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing July 1, 2017,
any person in this state who possesses any large-capacity magazine, regardless of the date the
magazine was acquired, is guilty of an infraction punishable by a fine not to exceed one hundred
dollars ($100) per large-capacity magazine, or is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine
not to exceed one hundred dollars ($100) per large-capacity magazine, by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(d) Any person who may not lawfully possess a large-capacity magazine commencing July 1,
2017 shall, prior to July 1, 2017:
(I) Remove the large-capacity magazine from the state;
(2) Sell the large-capacity magazine to a licensed firearms dealer; or
(3) Surrender the large-capacity magazine to a law enforcement agency for destruction
Note the 'assault weapon like' language of (d).

Changes the definition of 'ammunition'
Quote:
16150. (a) As used in this part, except in subdivision (a) of Section 30305 and in
Section 30306, "ammunition" means one or more loaded cartridges consisting of a primed case,
propellant, and with one or more projectiles. "Ammunition" does not include blanks.
Creates 'ammunition vendors'
Quote:
16151. (a) As used in this part, commencing January 1, 2018, "ammunition vendor" means any
person, firm, corporation, or other business enterprise that holds a current ammunition vendor
license issued pursuant to Section 30385.
(b) Commencing January 1, 2018, a firearms dealer licensed pursuant to Sections 26700
to 26915, inclusive, shall automatically be deemed a licensed ammunition vendor
, provided the
dealer complies with the requirements of Articles 2 (commencing with Section 30300) and 3
(commencing with Section 30342) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4 of this part.
Bans ammo sales not through an 'ammunition vendor'
Quote:
30312. (a)(1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of
ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition
vendor.
(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall
deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction ...

ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through
other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the
ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section
Bans buying out of state and bringing back
Quote:
30314. (a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into
this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this
state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for
delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.
Ammunition sales to be reported like DROS
Quote:
30352. (a) Commencing July 1, 2019, an ammunition vendor shall not sell or
otherwise transfer ownership of any handgun ammunition without, at the time of delivery,
legibly recording the following information on a form to be prescribed by the Department of
Justice: ...
(b) Commencing July 1, 2019, an ammunition vendor shall electronically submit to the
Department the information required by subdivision (a) for all sales and transfers of ownership
of ammunition.
You really need to read all of section 4 --
Quote:
Article 4. Ammunition Purchase Authorizations

30370. (a)(l) Commencing on January 1, 2019, any person who is 18 years of age or older may
apply to the Department for an ammunition purchase authorization.
but
Quote:
(g) The Department may charge a reasonable fee not to exceed $50 per person for the issuance of
an ammunition purchase authorization or the issuance of a renewal authorization,
however, the
Department shall not set these fees any higher than necessary to recover the reasonable,
estimated costs to fund the ammunition authorization program provided for in this section and
Section 30352, including the enforcement of this program and maintenance of any data systems
associated with this program.
Ammunition sales to be treated just like firearm sales.

Expands the AP program authorization to get search warrants:
Quote:
Section 1524 of the Penal Code is amended to read:
1524. (a) A search warrant may be issued upon any of the following grounds:
...
(15) Beginning January 1, 2018, the property or things to be seized include a firearm that is
owned by, or in the possession of, or in the custody or control of, a person who is subject to the
prohibitions regarding firearms pursuant to Sections 29800 or 29805 of the Penal Code, and the
court has made a finding pursuant to Section 29810(c)(3) that the person has failed to relinquish
the firearm as required by law.
Prohibited persons get screwed on disposing of their firearms
Quote:
29810. (a)(l) Upon conviction of any offense that renders a person subject to Section 29800 or
Section 29805, the person shall relinquish all firearms he or she owns, possesses, or has under
his or her custody or control in the manner provided in this section.
...
(3) Using the Prohibited Persons Relinquishment Form, the defendant shall name a designee and
grant the designee power of attorney for the purpose of transferring or disposing of any firearms.
The designee shall be either a local law enforcement agency or a consenting third party who is
not prohibited from possessing firearms under state or federal law. The designee shall, within
the time periods specified in subdivisions (d) and (e), surrender the firearms to the control of a
local law enforcement agency, sell the firearms to a licensed firearms dealer, or transfer the
firearms for storage to a firearms dealer pursuant to Section 29830.
An actual Good Idea
Quote:
Section 490.2 of the Penal Code is amended to read:
(a) Notwithstanding Section 487 or any other provision of law defining grand theft, obtaining
any property by theft where the value of the money, labor, real or personal property taken does
not exceed nine hundred fifty dollars ($950) ...
( c) This section shall not apply to theft of a firearm.
And happy new year to you all
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Last edited by Librarian; 12-31-2015 at 8:31 PM..
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  #15  
Old 12-31-2015, 7:05 PM
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FGN
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Old 12-31-2015, 7:10 PM
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Default Just browsed through the bill.

Folks,


This would be bad news, Gavin went full retard. Prepare to turn in your standard capacity mags. Ammunition sales through licensed dealers, online or otherwise. No out of state purchases and being brought into commiefornia.
If those of you who are still on the fence about the NRA, SAF, etc. Better think again, folks we are in the fight of our lives. DeLeon, Skinner, and so on are going to pull out all of the stops. Expect the worst. A2
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Old 12-31-2015, 7:19 PM
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FPC seems to be taking point on this issue, https://www.fpcsadc.org
I'm contributing my maximum there unless there are other suggestions.
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Old 12-31-2015, 7:33 PM
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not following any of this if it gets passed.

i will hold onto any "large" capacity magazines i have, and I will go out of state and buy ammo and bring it back if i feel like it.

so unless they do want to turn the border checkpoints into what is Nazi era checkpoints where they strip search you, it won't stop anything. and there are routes around the border checkpoints anyways.
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Old 12-31-2015, 7:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
not following any of this if it gets passed.

i will hold onto any "large" capacity magazines i have, and I will go out of state and buy ammo and bring it back if i feel like it.

so unless they do want to turn the border checkpoints into what is Nazi era checkpoints where they strip search you, it won't stop anything. and there are routes around the border checkpoints anyways.
I always used to joke with my friends that the reason I drive a Prius is because it's my undercover car when I have to drive to San Fran ... it makes me look like a Democrat.

Maybe I can use it as an official CalGuns ammo bootlegger mobile, shuttling "illegal" ammo from other states to the Resistance in CA. Surely CHP would never think to search a Prius coming into a checkpoint for ammo.

I'll make sure to wear a beret and skinny jeans while sipping on coconut water, too.
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Old 12-31-2015, 7:49 PM
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Let's work to stop this before it gets onto the ballot.
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Old 12-31-2015, 7:51 PM
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Does it increase their costs if they are given lots of fake signatures/names/addresses by gun owners?
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Old 12-31-2015, 7:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
Does it increase their costs if they are given lots of fake signatures/names/addresses by gun owners?
I'm betting they figure to collect far more than the bare number of required signatures (which will be a straight percentage of turnout for a recent election - so no thanks to idiots who don't vote, the bar is set low), in order to cover invalid signatures. It doesn't matter whether those invalid signatures come from gun owners or not, but I imagine their costs will be high for this one.
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Old 12-31-2015, 8:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
Does it increase their costs if they are given lots of fake signatures/names/addresses by gun owners?
Someone said that they only check some signatures. So fake ones might not help us. Maybe if it's obvious over half are. Not sure.

ALL of us have to "volunteer" for this and show up, learn, observe, get info.
Even if it's to meet with two old ladies at Dennys! LOL
Infiltrate.

Submit or subvert time.

Let's see if they start responding to my pleas to help them.

I'm not advocating breaking the law, but if half their "volunteers" are freedom lovers, they will make for crappy volunteers. LOL


PM me when we start leaning details we don't want to share. I've started a private PM list.
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Old 12-31-2015, 8:10 PM
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Here's the qualification info for this:

Summary Date: 12/31/2015

Circulation Deadline: 06/28/16

Signatures Required: 365,880
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
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Old 12-31-2015, 8:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMCM16A2 View Post
Folks,


This would be bad news, Gavin went full retard. Prepare to turn in your standard capacity mags. Ammunition sales through licensed dealers, online or otherwise. No out of state purchases and being brought into commiefornia.
If those of you who are still on the fence about the NRA, SAF, etc. Better think again, folks we are in the fight of our lives. DeLeon, Skinner, and so on are going to pull out all of the stops. Expect the worst. A2
On the contrary, I will be making preparations to do exactly the opposite. Anyone want .22LR? Meet me in Sacramento on 10th Street in between "L" and "N" Streets the day this garbage is enacted. Bring media.
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Old 12-31-2015, 8:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Here's the qualification info for this:

Summary Date: 12/31/2015

Circulation Deadline: 06/28/16

Signatures Required: 365,880
Every day for 180 days they will have to collect 2033 signatures, minimum. (This isn't counting those tossed for not being verifiable.)
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Old 12-31-2015, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
Every day for 180 days they will have to collect 2033 signatures, minimum. (This isn't counting those tossed for not being verifiable.)
In 2012, the cost per required signature (CPRS) in CA was reported to be $4.07 - https://ballotpedia.org/2012_ballot_...ignature_costs

Assuming that remains constant, that's $1,489,141.

Tom Steyer can find that in his couch cushions. Bloomberg keeps that in the ash trays of his cars.
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  #28  
Old 12-31-2015, 9:03 PM
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So can we "hire" signature takers to take the day off?
Guessing many would just be hired idiots.
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Old 12-31-2015, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
So can we "hire" signature takers to take the day off?
Guessing many would just be hired idiots.
Around $14/hour, 8 hrs/day, say 90 days, about $10K each.

Don't know how many $4 signatures one might get in a day - probably depends on location. Say, on average, they get 25 per day, or $100. Looks like they'd need 80 gatherers or so to get 25/day for 180 days.

It's unskilled work; I don't think we could hire enough of the unemployed to keep the campaign from getting 100 or so.
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

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  #30  
Old 12-31-2015, 9:38 PM
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OK, so can anyone set up a table outside Target?
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Old 12-31-2015, 9:53 PM
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If one guy at the pier can get a bunch of idiots to sign a petition to rescind the 2nd Amendment, ol' Gavin will have his signatures by the end of next week.
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Old 12-31-2015, 10:44 PM
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Default PROP 1756 - Gavins Ballot Proposal - 12/31/15 may now start gathering signatures

//
// NSFW language in pictures/graphics is not permitted.
//
// Librarian
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Last edited by Librarian; 12-31-2015 at 10:54 PM..
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Old 01-01-2016, 2:06 AM
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Librarian = words of reason... Destroyer of Internet fantasy.

Look it up, it's true.
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Old 01-01-2016, 9:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
If one guy at the pier can get a bunch of idiots to sign a petition to rescind the 2nd Amendment, ol' Gavin will have his signatures by the end of next week.

Damn was that video disheartening. That pretty much summed up why this state is lost.
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Old 01-01-2016, 9:27 AM
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Why are WE not gathering signatures for the -"Recall Newsom" effort?
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ehline View Post
Why are WE not gathering signatures for the -"Recall Newsom" effort?
Okay. Get started. Hope you have something that resonates with his constituency that would convince them that he is a bad Lt Gov. By the way, you will need 1,177,576 signatures.
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Last edited by CitaDeL; 01-01-2016 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ehline View Post
Why are WE not gathering signatures for the -"Recall Newsom" effort?
Because there are too many leftists in this state that completely agree with Gavin. And there are too many on the right who don't give two ****s about 2A. I've got four friends that are all die-hard gun people with CCW's. None of them have joined any gun-rights groups, or contributed to trying to stem the flow of b.s. coming from Sacto. When they all lost their right to CCW on school grounds (two of them have kids), not a word other than "O.k." THIS is the mind set of the majority of gun owners in this state.
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:00 AM
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How are they going to enforce buying out of state and bringing back? Set up road blocks?
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:55 AM
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As part of my new year's resolution I am looking to make a donation to the effort to fight this. My question for the group is how is that best spent?

-An org that will fight the initiative during the election

OR

-A foundation determined to get it repealed by the courts after it passes?

I ask because, if the public-relations effort seems hopeless, it might not be best to send money that way. Newsome is smart to use the '16 election because the presidential ballot will get out the vote in a way that wouldn't work in an off-year. That's probably going to determine the outcome more than anything else.

Also, any "send it to me" answers will receive a cold stare and maybe a contemptuous eye roll.
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diverwcw View Post
How are they going to enforce buying out of state and bringing back? Set up road blocks?
Probably.



They'll ask you where are you coming from, and do you have any fruit, ammo, Republicans, or "high capacity" magazines in your car. If you look nervous they'll direct you to an area where your vehicle will be searched.

Eventually the highway crossing points entering California will look like this:



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