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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-09-2005, 4:23 AM
fred1814 fred1814 is offline
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I go to the range (Lytle creek) about 2 times a month. every time i go i through my guns and rifles on the bed of my truck. i also put my ammo in the bed in a couple of ammo boxes. i have a single cab s10 so i don’t have allot of room in the cab to put the ammo in the cab. someone told me that you have to transport the ammo separate from the guns. how can you transport your guns and ammo legally without getting in trouble. and if you get pulled over should you immediately tell the officer you have guns in the car and you were going or coming from the range. if you have a preban mag that holds more than 10 rds do the cops hassle you for it.



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just want to get some stuff clear
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Old 02-09-2005, 4:23 AM
fred1814 fred1814 is offline
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I go to the range (Lytle creek) about 2 times a month. every time i go i through my guns and rifles on the bed of my truck. i also put my ammo in the bed in a couple of ammo boxes. i have a single cab s10 so i don’t have allot of room in the cab to put the ammo in the cab. someone told me that you have to transport the ammo separate from the guns. how can you transport your guns and ammo legally without getting in trouble. and if you get pulled over should you immediately tell the officer you have guns in the car and you were going or coming from the range. if you have a preban mag that holds more than 10 rds do the cops hassle you for it.



thanks



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  #3  
Old 02-09-2005, 5:51 AM
imported_EOD Guy imported_EOD Guy is offline
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If the guns and the ammunition are in different cases or bags, they are seperate.
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  #4  
Old 02-09-2005, 6:40 AM
imported_DULLYJAY imported_DULLYJAY is offline
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No need to tell them you have firearms in the car. You can tell if they ask.(Being I have a dark tan all year round, it seems after they check L's & reg. the next is "Any guns or drugs in the car." ) I don't tell most the time.
I'm guessing you're pretty young so it might be a little fishy to see you with hi-cap mags.
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  #5  
Old 02-09-2005, 6:52 AM
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Basic transit guidelines:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> All weapons must be unloaded.
<LI> Handguns must be in locked cases.
<LI> California-defined assault weapons (AWs) must be in locked cases.
<LI> If you have AWs, it's a good idea to carry a copy or two of your registration paperwork with you. (Just in case cop's radio or DOJ computer has problems at the time.)
<LI> Keep ammo separate.
<LI> Don't have loaded magazines.
<LI> Hicap mags (that you legally own & acquired before 1/1/00 cutoff date) are fine: if everything else is OK you won't be hassled.[/list]
I would not volunteer info I have guns if pulled over. Let the cop ask. I would not lie though if asked (you could somehow be charged with impeding investigation, etc.) If asked if you have any illegal or questionable content, I'd just initially reply that "there are no illegal items in this vehicle."

(BTW, when I get pulled over I turn on the dome light and keep both my hands on top of the steering wheel, fingers splayed. When cop asks for ID, I tell him my wallet is in my right pants pocket and ask permission to extract it with just my right hand. This seems to comfort them/alleviate stress.)

Having a short haircut + being clean shaven really helps

Bill Wiese
San Jose
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  #6  
Old 02-09-2005, 9:48 AM
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There is no legal issue with having loaded magazines. As long as they aren't in the gun. I make sure magazines are ina seperate container.
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2005, 10:02 AM
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Theres no legal issue with having loaded mags seperate either, they just have to be unattached.

However, if your mags are unloaded and the ammo and mags are in seperate containers your gonna have alot less explaining to do.
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  #8  
Old 02-09-2005, 10:46 AM
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SilverBox,
There may be some case law somewhere. I can't remember where I heard it. It may just be a local law too. But somehow there's a chance a loaded mag can be treated as a loaded gun...

I'd LOVE to be proved right or wrong on this so it's not laying out there.


Bill W
San Jose
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  #9  
Old 02-09-2005, 11:26 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bwiese:
SilverBox,
There may be some case law somewhere. I can't remember where I heard it. It may just be a local law too. But somehow there's a chance a loaded mag can be treated as a loaded gun...

I'd LOVE to be proved right or wrong on this so it's not laying out there.


Bill W
San Jose <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right.

Loaded Magazine = Loaded Gun

but, speedy loaders for revolvers do not count.
since they are not part of the gun in original configuration.

Keep you mags un-loaded and you handguns in a backpack with a little luggage combo lock and you are to the letter of the law.

If you have a station wagon type car with no trunk - like a billion of SUV's out there, buy a cable bike lock and lock your back pack to your spare tire lug.

kosher in california
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  #10  
Old 02-09-2005, 11:49 AM
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Do not say that "loaded magazine = loaded gun" unless you can cite specific laws, ordinances, or case law. A loaded magazine does not equal a loaded gun. It equals a loaded magazine, unless you can cite a law to the contrary.

For the definition of a loaded handgun, see P.C. 12031(g).
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
12031.
(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be
deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the elements of lawfully transporting a handgun in your vehicle, see P.C. 12026.1. Note that this section says the gun must be in a locked container (or the trunk), but does not say the gun must be unloaded.


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  #11  
Old 02-09-2005, 2:23 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by San Francisco, 1911:
Do not say that "loaded magazine = loaded gun" unless you can cite specific laws, ordinances, or case law. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
IIRC there is a law that allows a prosecutor to define the possession of a filled mag and a firearm as a loaded weapon. Really it depends on the local prosecutor (City or county). Another feel good law designed to abate gang activity.
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2005, 11:44 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR># Handguns must be in locked cases.
# California-defined assault weapons (AWs) must be in locked cases. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember reading the law afew years ago and it stated a "Lockable" container for weapons not "Locked", Is it still the same wording?
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  #13  
Old 02-10-2005, 1:53 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ivanimal:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR># Handguns must be in locked cases.
# California-defined assault weapons (AWs) must be in locked cases. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember reading the law afew years ago and it stated a "Lockable" container for weapons not "Locked", Is it still the same wording? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The law for handguns is P.C. 12026.1 and they must be in LOCKED containers, or the trunk.
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  #14  
Old 02-10-2005, 3:08 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by toolman9000:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bwiese:
SilverBox,
There may be some case law somewhere. I can't remember where I heard it. It may just be a local law too. But somehow there's a chance a loaded mag can be treated as a loaded gun...

I'd LOVE to be proved right or wrong on this so it's not laying out there.


Bill W
San Jose <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right.

Loaded Magazine = Loaded Gun

but, speedy loaders for revolvers do not count.
since they are not part of the gun in original configuration.

Keep you mags un-loaded and you handguns in a backpack with a little luggage combo lock and you are to the letter of the law.

If you have a station wagon type car with no trunk - like a billion of SUV's out there, buy a cable bike lock and lock your back pack to your spare tire lug.

kosher in california <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are wrong.

The only provision in state penal code for loaded magazine (unattached but in possesion or in vehicle)=loaded gun is when you are in commision of a street gang type felony, see PC 12021.5

If your not commiting a felony and you have a loaded mag (unattached) and a unloaded handgun in a locked container or trunk, their is no state penal code (that I know of and I've read and reread em a zillion times) that says its illegal, there MAY be case or local law that says its illegal in your particular area. The Penal code that covers transport is 12031, and the definition for a loaded firearm is detailed in section (g) which San Francisco, 1911 has already cited.

If your in doubt carry your mags unloaded and ammo in a seperate locked container, as I've said before an officer looking thru you trunk is gonna be alot more comfortable if your transporting this way.
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Old 02-10-2005, 3:08 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SilverBox:
However, if your mags are unloaded and the ammo and mags are in seperate containers your gonna have alot less explaining to do. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And if you never had the temerity to actually (gasp!) have a gun and go to the range, you'd have even less 'splainin' to do.

If you're at the point where the police are searching your car and turning up firearms and ammo, you're long past the point where whether the magazines are loaded or not is going to have much difference one way or the other.
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Old 02-10-2005, 3:30 PM
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SilverBox...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The only provision in state penal code for loaded magazine (unattached but in possesion or in vehicle)=loaded gun is when you are in commision of a street gang type felony, see PC 12021.5 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you. That could well be the source of the "loaded mag = loaded gun" concept that has been spread around. I knew there was _some_ element of truth to it.

I feel better now.


Bill Wiese
San Jose
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Old 02-11-2005, 12:21 PM
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i still would not take a chance with the loaded mags even if they were seperate and locked.

its not worth the risk for me to take a chance and get mixed up in the legal system trying to defend myself.
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Old 02-12-2005, 9:30 PM
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this is not legal advice.


You're fine. You don't need to keep ammo separate, just out of the gun. See Penal Code 12031(g) -- a firearm is loaded when ammunition is attached in any manner to it. The loaded magazine = loaded gun exception applies to street gang offenses and miscellaneous others, such as having ammo and a firearm in your possession on the state capitol grounds.
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Old 02-16-2005, 1:21 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bwiese:


(BTW, when I get pulled over I turn on the dome light and keep both my hands on top of the steering wheel, fingers splayed. When cop asks for ID, I tell him my wallet is in my right pants pocket and ask permission to extract it with just my right hand. This seems to comfort them/alleviate stress.)
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lemme just add, if you have tinted windows and are carrying passengers, ROLL DOWN the windows and ask your passengers to put their hands in the open... even ask them to put them on the seat like a steering wheel.

a family member is a cop in a local PD and he says car stops are the most worrysome, next to domestic violence calls...

so if you can put them at ease to start things off, the stop might become a warning...
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Old 02-16-2005, 7:01 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DULLYJAY:
it seems after they check L's & reg. the next is "Any guns or drugs in the car." ) I don't tell most the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> That's racial profiling. I'm asian american. Of all the times I got pulled over here in California as well as in another state, I've never been asked a question like that.
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Old 02-16-2005, 1:42 PM
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Its not neccesarily racial profiling so long as that particular deparment or CHP station has it as a policy to ask everyone that. I wouldn't be suprised if the Oakland cops ask everyone that.
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