The UOC thing..Enlighten me..

[oaklander]

Not this again.

We all kind of made our peace on the issue a few months ago. . .

[Vinz]

Originally Posted by Librarian

What? What'd I miss?

perhaps it was I that is missing something...

I maybe wrong.

vinz

[Vinz]

Originally Posted by oaklander

Not this again.

We all kind of made our peace on the issue a few months ago. . .

this is what I am talking about. We need info...big bill boards....blimps....guidence.


vinz

[Army]

a1c, trust me, Theseus knows ALL about UOC...and its consequences.

To the OP, we don't have the luxury of CCW, nor the convenience of living far enough out of town to carry loaded. Since California has decided that protecting yourself is a privilege to be doled out to the highest bidder, then we little people must comply with existing law.

That means UOC.

I UOC on a fairly regular basis, with 40 rounds at the ready for the 1911 in a Serpa. My personal and professional training keeps me condition orange whenever I am awake. My weapons training helps me to draw, drop the empty mag, and load in less than 3 seconds. It's nothing that anyone else can't do.

I have been stopped and "E" checked by local PD and Sheriff in other cities, but not my own...go figure. But, you know what? Are you sitting down? Ready?

Never had a MWAG call on me. Never had a panicked grandma. Never had any children self abort. Not one screaming mommy. Negative on grown men pissing their pants at the sight of me. I fail to recall any sirens screaming in for the major bust. Not one gang banger has tried to take my gun (on the contrary, they seem to want to call me "sir" a lot). While eating at one of my favorite sandwich shops, nobody assume the puking position in total fear (on the contrary, the owner usually gets his own sandwich and sits with me to shoot the BS). I've yet to witness any car wrecks due to fearful drivers swerving around me. Oh yes, butterflies alight upon my shoulders because I am so sweet.

Your assumptions are far-fetched, with no clear basis in reality. I'm not looking for trouble...trust me, I can find trouble really really fast...and trouble does not seem to be able to find me. I do not push anything down any LEO throat, other than to make sure THEY follow the same law I must. I don't care if they like it or not, same as I don't care what they think about my low-rider truck.

Geo feels we are "attention whores". Well, I feel he is some ignorant punk that should not venture too far from his mothers basement. See, I can be nasty too.

Calling attention to myself and my gun would be rather foolish, don't you think? I wouldn't smoke my tires just because I have a vehicle that can do it. I won't run around naked to show off my manhood...although the ladies would indeed pay attention

I will, however, go about my business in a normal and legal manner, making no special effort to be noticed..or to hide.

This is one of those "been there, done that" things. Unless you have packed in public, your opinion of ME doing so is rather moot. The LAW allows it, what you think means nothing.

[7x57]

Originally Posted by Librarian

What? What'd I miss?

What Librarian said. I had to go and find the main Theseus thread, thinking that Big News had happened while I was hunting. Nothing.

It's not fair to get our hopes up for Theseus like that.

Hah, always wanted to use that smiley.

7x57

[camsoup]

Here are some of my thoughts on OC...

Originally Posted by Swatguy10_15

So Ive read alot of posts pertaining to different aspects of this whole concept of UOC...What the purpose of this?

The fact that most people cant get a ccw in this state, and the fact that CA law requires us to carry unloaded when in incorporated areas. UOC is the only choice for most of us that want to be able to protect ourselves and can not obtain a CCW. Or have the strength to carry a police officer around on our back everwhere we go,

UOC may not be the best option, but it is the only option alot of people in CA have. Its still better than not having a firearm at all.

In my eyes this is moving backwards in an effort to retain and restore our 2nd amendment rights..NRA and Calguns seem to have plenty of good educated ideas as to what to do and how to help..I dont think Ive seen the endorsment for UOC..(Just because I havent seen it doesnt mean it doesnt exist, I know this)
Heres my thought(s).

While the NRA and Calguns have done wonderful things for us in CA, just because they don't endorse it, doesn't mean we shouldn't have the option of doing it, if we so choose.

Anytime a firearm is introduced into any situation,coffee at yuppiebucks, a book at B&N, anywhere..The situation has now become uncomfortable for John Q public. People will call 911, and as anyone whos involved in LE knows, people who call 911 dont always relay the facts..Simply carrying UOC can be quickly twisted into a "crazy man with a gun" 911 call..Now youve got all units running code to get there..No good can come of this..

I believe the good that come of this, is making John Q public and LE aware that what we choose to do is legal, and there is no reason to get all crazy and call in a MWAG call. OC is legal in Vermont and Arizona, do you know what the dispatchers do in those states when they receive a MWAG call??

They actually ask questions and obtain information before dispatching units at code 3, questions like, what is the man with the gun doing? the gun is in a holster? He is just sitting having lunch?

On top of that PUSHING UOC down the throat of the local LE agency creates an anti-gun attitude by both LE patrol and overhead..For instance a County Sheriff who is kinda midway as far as issuing CCW's. With the economy and officers having to be laid off,hes reconsidering his position and is toying with the idea of issuing more permits..Then he starts having to deal with his patrol guys being constantly called to "man with a gun" calls. Only to hear that the person carrying a gun is proclaiming theyre 2nd amendment right to carry that firearm....Irregardless that the presence of that weapon has caused a bunch of grief,some scared citizens and alot of wasted patrol time.Also noting that a code 3 response is DANGEROUS.

Again, this "typical" response you have laid out is not the only option for LE, THEY choose to respond in this fashion, it doesn't happen everywhere (AZ,VT etc) and it doesn't have to happen in this fashion here.

Also, just because I walk down the street UOCing doesn't mean I am PUSHING it down the throat of john q public or LE, if someone wants to perceive it has being shoved down their throat, that is all on them.

Well now that Sheriff has a great deal of anti-citizen with a gun resentment and essentially says "screw that!" to the increased issuance of Concealed weapons permits.

Most people don't even notice when I OC, let along show any type of anti-gun sentiment towards me.

Another factor..Carrying a firearm openly, without a badge is LOOKING for problems. Theres no if and or buts about it. When youre average citizen sees a gun, and no badge..Problem..Now the gang member WITH A LOADED weapon see's an opportunity to score another firearm...or...Now someone pissed because theyre kids saw it and are terrified..

The gangbanger doesn't know my weapon is empty, do you really think he is going to risk trying to steal my gun just because he sees it??...isn't it more likely that my gun will deter him from trying to do anything to me? If you were to CCW that same gangbanger with a LOADED gun as no idea your carrying, whats to stop him from trying to take your wallet, or anything else he wants from you?


I thought the 2nd amendment fight was one won by public support and legal battles..Not shoving the presence of a weapon down the publics throat. Especially in the larger cities..Alot of the public, arent necessarily anti-gun or pro gun..Society is such that if it doesnt personally affect someone,they usually dont care. Now it would seem those individuals would be leaned toward anti-gun because theyve been made to feel uncomfortable by the presence of a firearm in a public place.."I cant even go to yuppiebucks without seeing someone toting a gun!"
Now before some keyboard commando goes and tells me how much of a bas*** I am..Im simply trying to understand..Im open to all thoughts,educated input and such..Whats the concept behind UOC, what purpose is it seving in the fight to restore and keep our 2nd amendment rights?

If we don't exercise a right, can we really lay claim to even having it?

Do the benefits outweigh the negative attention? Im all about fighting to keep what little rights weve been left with..But Im about an educated effective fight, not a hip shoot reflex

Not everyone that participates in UOC is doing it for the fight, or to restore rights.

Yes I believe in the 2nd amendment and the fact we should be able to exercise it, but I also OC to protect me and mine. CA being may issue and the fact that they don't issue many CCW permits really leaves me with no other choice.

[MudCamper]

To the OP, if you honestly want to know why UOC (and Army's post wasn't enough, which I think it was) you can check out the following links.

http://www.californiaopencarry.org/faq.html#why
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-...-argument.html

[CitaDeL]

Originally Posted by Swatguy10_15

So Ive read alot of posts pertaining to different aspects of this whole concept of UOC...What the purpose of this?
In my eyes this is moving backwards in an effort to retain and restore our 2nd amendment rights..NRA and Calguns seem to have plenty of good educated ideas as to what to do and how to help..I dont think Ive seen the endorsment for UOC..(Just because I havent seen it doesnt mean it doesnt exist, I know this)
Heres my thought(s).

Anytime a firearm is introduced into any situation,coffee at yuppiebucks, a book at B&N, anywhere..The situation has now become uncomfortable for John Q public. People will call 911, and as anyone whos involved in LE knows, people who call 911 dont always relay the facts..Simply carrying UOC can be quickly twisted into a "crazy man with a gun" 911 call..Now youve got all units running code to get there..No good can come of this..
On top of that PUSHING UOC down the throat of the local LE agency creates an anti-gun attitude by both LE patrol and overhead..For instance a County Sheriff who is kinda midway as far as issuing CCW's. With the economy and officers having to be laid off,hes reconsidering his position and is toying with the idea of issuing more permits..Then he starts having to deal with his patrol guys being constantly called to "man with a gun" calls. Only to hear that the person carrying a gun is proclaiming theyre 2nd amendment right to carry that firearm..Irregardless that the presence of that weapon has caused a bunch of grief,some scared citizens and alot of wasted patrol time.Also noting that a code 3 response is DANGEROUS.
Well now that Sheriff has a great deal of anti-citizen with a gun resentment and essentially says "screw that!" to the increased issuance of Concealed weapons permits.
Another factor..Carrying a firearm openly, without a badge is LOOKING for problems. Theres no if and or buts about it. When youre average citizen sees a gun, and no badge..Problem..Now the gang member WITH A LOADED weapon see's an opportunity to score another firearm...or...Now someone pissed because theyre kids saw it and are terrified..
I thought the 2nd amendment fight was one won by public support and legal battles..Not shoving the presence of a weapon down the publics throat. Especially in the larger cities..Alot of the public, arent necessarily anti-gun or pro gun..Society is such that if it doesnt personally affect someone,they usually dont care. Now it would seem those individuals would be leaned toward anti-gun because theyve been made to feel uncomfortable by the presence of a firearm in a public place.."I cant even go to yuppiebucks without seeing someone toting a gun!"
Now before some keyboard commando goes and tells me how much of a bas*** I am..Im simply trying to understand..Im open to all thoughts,educated input and such..Whats the concept behind UOC, what purpose is it seving in the fight to restore and keep our 2nd amendment rights? Do the benefits outweigh the negative attention? Im all about fighting to keep what little rights weve been left with..But Im about an educated effective fight, not a hip shoot reflex

I began carrying exposed in 2006 to do two things; one-to practice the right to 'keep and bear' without the permission of the State and two- to challenge misconceptions about what was legal and how others would react to an ordinary person being visably armed.

I had researched the laws pertaining to the lawful possession and carry of firearms in California. I had consulted an attorney. And I had the example of those who carry loaded and exposed in dozens of States across the nation.

In the beginning I had zero support.

Upon mentioning open carry, I was told by gunnies not to even try it- some suggested I would be arrested or shot on sight by responding police. I got wary glances from range employees after asking about the legality and spoon fed FUD based on their own preferences to concealed carry. When the topic arose on a CCW forum an instructor and 'expert witness' suggested to his fans and students that if I open carried in public, that I was a 'good shoot'- that it would have been justifiable to shoot to kill me for merely walking up the street with a holstered firearm. After months of research and internal debate, I had to set aside the doubts that others built up in my mind.

So one day in August 2006, I went to get a sandwich while visably armed. It would take the police more than a year to respond. In this interceding time, I went on dozens of solo open carry excursions in various venues; everywhere from a crowded grocery store, to my bank, to pumping gas at a gas station, to eating at an outdoor hamburger stand. To my recollection there were only four instances where there was a reaction. The first three were that of curiosity, the forth resulted in detention by police that lasted for approximately 10 minutes. One person called 911. One.

In this year of living dangerously I had accomplished both my goals; I practiced my right unfettered by onerous regulation and I proved to gunnies that exposed carry would not result in an impromptu dirt taste test, an arrest, or death.

Things did change.

There were unintended consequences-

• Gunnies arent totally disqualifying OC as an option-the debate continues.
• A movement that 5 years ago would have been unthinkable, spawned cells of activists statewide.
• No fewer than 10 departmental and legal memos have been issued (outlining with varying degrees of accuracy) the legality of exposed carry in California. (This was particularly advantageous since the authorities were spreading the word for us by educating hundreds of peace officers.)
• It has been suggested that legislation has been forwarded to expand the gun-free school zone by 500 additional feet was instigated by OC activity. (And that there is more on the way.)
• My license to carry concealed was revoked for not toeing the issuing authorities line. (Giving me no other alternative than to do what they were attempting to disuade me from doing.)

As I see it, the usefulness of open carry in California will be unrealized until incorporation. I am convinced my activities were premature. However, with the 2nd incorporated, exposed carry will not only be a visable deterent to criminals, but also be a lever by which anti-gun bias and policy will be overturned.

[a1c]

Citadel or GunCamper, when you UOC, are your mags in a visible holster pocket as well? I have to admit you both made good points and changed my perception of the issue... At this point I'm almost thinking of trying UOC until I get my CCW license...

[Vinz]

Originally Posted by a1c

Citadel or GunCamper, when you UOC, are your mags in a visible holster pocket as well? I have to admit you both made good points and changed my perception of the issue... At this point I'm almost thinking of trying UOC until I get my CCW license...

please learn,know and follow the laws in your area. This very important.

vinz