Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 02-12-2010, 10:16 PM
icefire icefire is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northwest California
Posts: 158
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default no conversion just to use AK mags..

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMCHARGER View Post
The Saiga wont use stock AK mags. You need to do a conversion on the Saiga and it aint cheap.
I think the Casar had the hole for the PG already there so you just attatch a pistol grip.
I was looking at the Casars and they look pretty well built, better that the Wasrs ive looked at.
No, you dont have to do a full conversion on a Saiga just to run AK mags, just add a Dinzag bullet guide $20, and file or dremel a couple of mm off the mag catch. Then any com-Bloc mag fits and works fine. The conversions for saigas are to move the trigger group back forward, not needed just to run AK mags...You can always get a Tapco stock with PG that will fit on a stock Saiga without conversion, too....like I have on mine.

Not sure how this bad info on Saiga still gets out, go to www.forum.saiga-12.com to learn everything that is true about saigas...
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-13-2010, 5:08 PM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 40,109
iTrader: 125 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyPacquiao01 View Post
I have the inter ordnance ioinc CASAR AK-47. I installed the tapco pistol grip and tried the hi-cap magazines and they fit just fine. I also removed the stock to install an adjustable m4 stock for the ak. But i have not yet fired the gun! Lol
I hope that you did not install +10 round mags with a PG installed. That would be a felony! Also, what type of mag lock did you install before you installed the PG? Did you get a NFA tax stamp before you manufactured an AOW? Or, are you just making it easy for the feds to prosicute you for violating Federal Laws?
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor


Offering low cost private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

Last edited by CSACANNONEER; 02-13-2010 at 7:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-13-2010, 6:28 PM
Z ME FLY's Avatar
Z ME FLY Z ME FLY is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: East Bay, CA
Posts: 6,219
iTrader: 92 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyPacquiao01 View Post
I have the inter ordnance ioinc CASAR AK-47. I installed the tapco pistol grip and tried the hi-cap magazines and they fit just fine. I also removed the stock to install an adjustable m4 stock for the ak. But i have not yet fired the gun! Lol
Wheres the stock on your ak? Is this a pistol? Oh is that a bipod or foregrip?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1 View Post
The virgin requires more work (don't they all )

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1 View Post
Z gets around. lol
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-13-2010, 6:34 PM
ZombieKiller's Avatar
ZombieKiller ZombieKiller is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: W35T C0457
Posts: 2,577
iTrader: 72 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyPacquiao01 View Post
I have the inter ordnance ioinc CASAR AK-47. I installed the tapco pistol grip and tried the hi-cap magazines and they fit just fine. I also removed the stock to install an adjustable m4 stock for the ak. But i have not yet fired the gun! Lol
Ya.....you might want to take that picture down Chief....not a good idea.
Read and learn before you "build."
__________________
"The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory...."
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-13-2010, 7:54 PM
welchy's Avatar
welchy welchy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Модесто
Posts: 1,259
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyPacquiao01 View Post
I have the inter ordnance ioinc CASAR AK-47. I installed the tapco pistol grip and tried the hi-cap magazines and they fit just fine. I also removed the stock to install an adjustable m4 stock for the ak. But i have not yet fired the gun! Lol
Troll.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-13-2010, 8:38 PM
Z ME FLY's Avatar
Z ME FLY Z ME FLY is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: East Bay, CA
Posts: 6,219
iTrader: 92 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
Ya.....you might want to take that picture down Chief....not a good idea.
Read and learn before you "build."
Okay so I wasn't the only one
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1 View Post
The virgin requires more work (don't they all )

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1 View Post
Z gets around. lol
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-15-2010, 8:52 AM
Z ME FLY's Avatar
Z ME FLY Z ME FLY is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: East Bay, CA
Posts: 6,219
iTrader: 92 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martinelliminimo View Post
I installed the tapco pistol grip and it looks great. I removed the stock because i'm waiting for the ak m4 adjustable stock.
Please take a look at our flowchart. YOU CANNOT have your AK without the stock even if you are waiting for another one. I am sure it doesn't pass the OAL.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1 View Post
The virgin requires more work (don't they all )

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1 View Post
Z gets around. lol
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-07-2010, 12:31 AM
griffudd's Avatar
griffudd griffudd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 9
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default IOINC CASAR--is it actually California Legal ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate74 View Post
Does anybody know if this particular rifle can have a PG added back onto it?
Regarding the IOINC Casar, I asked them in the store (at Turners) about the pistol grip and was given an emphatic "NO, that'll make it an illegal firearm."

However, I didn't ask them at the time if I put a bullet button on first, would it then be legal.

But if I understand California law correctly, certain receivers are banned from California, regardless of whether they have pistol grips or not. In other words, if the IOINC Casar is an "onlist" banned receiver, it is illegal regardless of whether it has a pistol grip or not, and regardless of whether it has a bullet button/magazine lock or not.

Thus, assuming my understanding of the law is correct, you could add a bullet button and then a pistol grip to this "legal" rifle and it would still be legal.

Well, I ordered one of these from Turners, and just today received it (An IOINC Casar 7.62 x 39 automatic rifle) from Turners--without the pistol grip or bullet button.

When I got it home and looked at it, it appeared that the model number on the receiver had been ground off. As a result, it's impossible to ascertain whether it's an illegal, on-list receiver or not.

Though Turner's claims this is CA-legal, I'm not sure that it actually is. Grinding off the model number of a previously illegal receiver seems....illegal.

In addition, the rifle is bent, causing the sight to be bent as well. I'm taking it back tomorrow due to the bent sight--and to see if all of these so-called "California-legal" receivers are legal--being made legal simply because they have the receiver identification ground off.

Last edited by griffudd; 05-07-2010 at 12:53 AM.. Reason: grammar
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 05-07-2010, 12:40 AM
69Mach1's Avatar
69Mach1 69Mach1 is offline
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles County
Posts: 14,867
iTrader: 397 / 100%
Default

It should still say IO Inc. CASAR and the serial number, correct? It's not listed as a CA AW in that case that's for sure. What do you mean "it's bent"? It's built off of a Romanian parts kit, and those are notorious for having "canted" front sight bases. PM me a pic of the markings and where they ground down if you like. They did gring the markings off of the front trunnion, which is fine, before they put it together.
__________________

69Mach1
munkeeboi
TURBOELKY
antix2
WTSGDYBBR
tujungatoes
jmpgnr24K
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 05-07-2010, 12:58 AM
bigthaiboy's Avatar
bigthaiboy bigthaiboy is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: LB
Posts: 4,803
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1 View Post
I can take a Romanian AK parts kit, build it on a US receiver, throw in some US parts and I too can say it's made in the US. That can mean anything...."US made", "made in the US".
I think what IO means is they are building their rifles from Romanian AK parts kits on US receivers, barrels and furniture, and calling them US made, since they are no longer ordering fully built rifles from Cugir in Romania any more (due to quality control issues). To call something US Made, not all the components are required to be made in the US.
__________________

Life can make you do many things, even kiss a man with a runny nose.

- Mihail Timofeevič Kalašnikov -
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 05-07-2010, 5:23 PM
griffudd's Avatar
griffudd griffudd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 9
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default IOINC Casar

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1 View Post
It should still say IO Inc. CASAR and the serial number, correct? It's not listed as a CA AW in that case that's for sure. What do you mean "it's bent"? It's built off of a Romanian parts kit, and those are notorious for having "canted" front sight bases. PM me a pic of the markings and where they ground down if you like. They did gring the markings off of the front trunnion, which is fine, before they put it together.
I've sent the rifle back due to the canted sight.

The most forward part of the receiver's underside is ground off. Immediately posterior to it is "7.62 x 39". Posterior to that it has IOinc, followed by the serial number (on the side closest to the trigger.)

I was told in the store that grinding off the model number of the receiver actually makes it legal.

Is that true?
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-07-2010, 5:47 PM
Ak47owner's Avatar
Ak47owner Ak47owner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Santa Clarita
Posts: 314
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

if you buy a ak, sell your sks's youll never shoot them agian if you do hahaha
__________________
"60 million gun owners didn't kill anybody today".

The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.
--Thomas Jefferson.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-08-2010, 12:39 PM
griffudd's Avatar
griffudd griffudd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 9
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Clarity

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1 View Post
It should still say IO Inc. CASAR and the serial number, correct? It's not listed as a CA AW in that case that's for sure.
I think I need to clarify what I was asking. The place on the receiver where the model number used to be was ground off. I was actually told this was originally an illegal receiver, but grinding off the model number made it California legal.

The model number may have originally been either of the 3 IOInc. banned models--AK-47, RPG, or M-97. But again, the original model number marking on the receiver has been ground off. And it has not been overwritten. There is simply a rough, ground off area where the model number used to be. It's the same on all of the "California-Legal" IOInc Casars.

However, on the left side of the front trunion (which is riveted to the receiver), it says something like "IO CASAR." (I don't remember the exact letters, since I've sent the rifle back to fix the canted sight.)

To my knowledge, the front trunion is not considered part of the receiver. If I'm right about that, then the IO CASAR marking on the trunion would be irrelevant to determining whether the receiver is California-legal or not.

My question is whether grinding off the model number of an illegal receiver makes it legal.

Does any one know?

Last edited by griffudd; 05-08-2010 at 12:44 PM.. Reason: missing word
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-08-2010, 1:03 PM
bigthaiboy's Avatar
bigthaiboy bigthaiboy is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: LB
Posts: 4,803
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

IO seem to have built the CASAR (CAlifornia Semi-Automatic Rifle) on their standard IO AK-47C receivers, for the CA market. As an importer and FFL07 manufacturer they can call and mark their receivers with whatever model designation they want, as long as that name / model #, and serial # are logged into their BATF records as such at the time of production.
__________________

Life can make you do many things, even kiss a man with a runny nose.

- Mihail Timofeevič Kalašnikov -
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-10-2010, 8:55 AM
griffudd's Avatar
griffudd griffudd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 9
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthaiboy View Post
IO seem to have built the CASAR (CAlifornia Semi-Automatic Rifle) on their standard IO AK-47C receivers, for the CA market. As an importer and FFL07 manufacturer they can call and mark their receivers with whatever model designation they want, as long as that name / model #, and serial # are logged into their BATF records as such at the time of production.
Bigthaiboy,

Thanks for your reponse. I suspected it must be something like that, considering how big an operation Turners' is.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-10-2010, 9:01 AM
69Mach1's Avatar
69Mach1 69Mach1 is offline
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles County
Posts: 14,867
iTrader: 397 / 100%
Default

IIRC, BATF considers the (AK) trunnion as part of the receiver when it's riveted on. Grinding off and remarking the front trunnion is not new. Most WASR AK's come that way.
__________________

69Mach1
munkeeboi
TURBOELKY
antix2
WTSGDYBBR
tujungatoes
jmpgnr24K
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-17-2010, 8:06 PM
Glock 22 Glock 22 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 14
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

So what would be the best choice now????????????? They have it for 569 at turners!

Call me a total NEWB but which one would be best from Henderson Industries??????? I live in Los Angeles County...
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-24-2010, 9:09 AM
Tisdel Tisdel is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 32
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Century GP-1975

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock 22 View Post
So what would be the best choice now????????????? They have it for 569 at turners!

Call me a total NEWB but which one would be best from Henderson Industries??????? I live in Los Angeles County...
Thanks
The least expensive from Henderson's is (or was) the Century GP 1975. The 1st one I bought from them had problems and I had to send it back. But Henderson replaced it almost immediately with another one, which seems to be working quite well.

The last I checked, however, they were out of Century GP 1975's.

But Henderson is very good about returns. They got a replacement rifle out to me before my 10-day waiting period had expired.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:38 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.