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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 04-01-2005, 2:31 PM
StanOwen StanOwen is offline
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I have a few questions regarding the legality of transferring/selling firearms across state lines. I’m not sure if the following scenarios are governed by state or federal law:

1. If I owned a handgun legally in California, and wanted to either give it to a relative or sell it to another party in another state would it be legal for me to drive to this other state, and give the handgun to my relative or sell it to another person?

2. Same scenario as #1 except it’s a rifle.

3. Same scenario as #2 except it’s a shotgun.

4. Same scenario as #3 except it’s a legally owned and registered assault rifle.

I appreciate the help.
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2005, 3:02 PM
StanOwen StanOwen is offline
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Hi Bill,

I couldn't have expected or imagined a more informative response. Having read other posts of yours you do this board a great service.

I appreciate you taking the time to type all of that out.

Thank you.

Stan
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2005, 2:53 PM
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bwiese bwiese is offline
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Hi Stan...

With only rare exceptions, firearms simply can't be transferred across state line(s) without the intervention of at least one FFL dealer. Doesn't really matter if it's given as a gift, donated, sold, etc. This is Federal law. Even in states where paperless private party transfers in the back of a parking lot are legal between two locals, this still overrides.

Whether it's a handgun, rifle or shotgun is immaterial.

If you want Mr. X in state X to get one or more of your guns - by sale, gift, etc. - you've gotta run guns thru an FFL where Mr. X can have them 'papered', etc.

There's NO Federal definition of assault weapon now, since the 1994 Federal 'Crime Bill', with its Assault Weapon Ban, has now sunset in Sept. 2004 and is no longer in effect. An assault weapon is, Federally, regarded as a just a long gun or handgun, as appropriate.

The only 'assault weapon' or 50BMG rifle laws you'd be subject to are California's: if you are SHIPPING the AW or 50BMG rifle out of state (to a licensed dealer or mfgr, the only allowable destination) you must go thru a CA FFL who also holds a (rare!) Assault Weapons Dealer Permit or 50BMG Dealer Permit.

However, you are not prohibited from physically taking said AW or 50BMG rifle out of state yourself (driving, flying, etc.) and selling it at an FFL dealer there. When returning you should notify Calif. DOJ that you're no longer in possession of that AW, etc.

[If for some reason the AW was illegally possessed because it wasn't registered by you with Cal DOJ by 12/31/2000, you should carefully get it out of state (risky, due to traffic stop) or destroy its receiver - do NOT go thru a dealer w/AW permit. (You can surrender AWs without charges being filed, by setting up a prearranged dropoff at your local police/sheriff's office.) ]


Bill Wiese
San Jose
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  #4  
Old 04-04-2005, 8:55 AM
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bwiese bwiese is offline
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Wheelgunner Dan...

[I love wheelguns too! I want a S&W 627 8-shot 357 w/unfluted cylinder and 4" bbl. Big Ruger SA fan too.]

Yes, if you're shipping an AW (or 50BMG) out of state you've gotta go thru a CA FFL holding an AW (or 50BMG) permit.

<STRIKE> I only know that Evan's Gunsmithing Works has one - they're in SoCAL, maybe Orange County. They claim to be the ONLY licensed CA Assault Weapons dealer but dunno about smithing...</STRIKE>

UPDATED: Just checked with Calif DOJ AW person, "Judy". (Very nice, prompt callback. Folks, if you call Cal DOJ please be nice to the phone people.) She said could not give me the complete list of CA AW dealer permittee but would give contact info for a few in the Bay Area.

There are apparently a bit more than a dozen or so California FFLs holding AW permits. Whether they're all still in business, etc. or their FFLs are current, if these are the best phone #s with which to get hold of them, I dunno. And while these guys may not do gunsmithing they perhaps could ship your AW in/out of state. Call 'em. Anyway, for SF Bay Area:

<LI>CONCORD Impact Custom Arms, 925-672-6026
<LI>VALLEJO Joe's Gunshop, 707-552-5770
<LI>SAN LEANDRO (The) Trader's, 510-569-0555


Several comments relating to this are warranted, for general benefit of all readers here: <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> IIRC, there are apparently TWO dealer/smith permits in CA: one for Assault Weapons, and one for 50BMG rifles. It seems a CA AW permit doesn't work for 50BMG rifles, nor is the converse true either.

<LI> if your registered AW is a Type I 'by name' or Type II AR or AK 'series' weapon, the gun or receiver must, of course, be shipped out of state via FFL w/CA AW permit. [Of course, sanity indicates you would not convey an unregistered AW to a CA FFL w/AW permit as logging requirements might be very, um, entangling ]

<LI> if you have a Type III 'by features' AW (guns like FAL clones, HK clones - but not real FN-FALs or true HK 91/93/94s or CETMEs), removal of sufficient evil features (pistol grip, folding stock, flash hider, etc.) renders it into non-AW status even though it is registered as an AW. At that point it can be shipped like a regular firearm. I advise that the 'evil features' NOT be shipped out nor returned in the same container as that could be too close for comfort for some DAs. (Given the cosmetic features of some evil features, you probably don't even need to ship these out.)

Also in the above case, please EXPLICITLY ensure your out-of-state smith mails you your Type III AW back in non-assault weapon configuration, and that evil features (pistol grip, etc.) are shipped in a separate box. This is not just for your safety but his too - even though he's out of state, in theory he could be charged with illegal importation/transfer of AW in CA.

<LI> AR upper receivers do not require treatment as a firearm whatsoever. Lots of AR work can be done on upper section only - don't need to send in that whole gun. (And lowers can be worked on easily by end users.)

<LI> a FAL clone upper receiver is the firearm and must be shipped as one. Its lower receiver/trigger group is NOT the firearm and can be shipped as parts, stuffed under your truck's front seat, given to kindergarteners, etc.[/list]


Bill Wiese
San Jose
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Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

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No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2005, 3:15 PM
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Thanks for the nice words, Stan...

Sometimes I get a chance to do a reasonably decent posting btwn compile & test runs...

Bill
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Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
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  #6  
Old 04-08-2005, 8:45 PM
StanOwen StanOwen is offline
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
&lt;snip&gt;
...given to kindergarteners, etc.
&lt;/snip&gt;
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just spit out my scotch!
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  #7  
Old 04-01-2005, 2:31 PM
StanOwen StanOwen is offline
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I have a few questions regarding the legality of transferring/selling firearms across state lines. I’m not sure if the following scenarios are governed by state or federal law:

1. If I owned a handgun legally in California, and wanted to either give it to a relative or sell it to another party in another state would it be legal for me to drive to this other state, and give the handgun to my relative or sell it to another person?

2. Same scenario as #1 except it’s a rifle.

3. Same scenario as #2 except it’s a shotgun.

4. Same scenario as #3 except it’s a legally owned and registered assault rifle.

I appreciate the help.
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  #8  
Old 04-04-2005, 5:40 AM
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wheelgunner wheelgunner is offline
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Bill,

Do you know an FFL who has AW dealers Lic in SanFrancisco bay area?

I am asking because I need to ship my receiver out to bluegrass armory. I was not aware that I had to use FFL w/AW.

Dan
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