[oaklander]

This is really a placeholder for Bill & Gene. I'm not at liberty to say what we have up our sleeve, but I can tell you that the CGF will be doing something about AB 962.

All hope is not lost. Do not move out of the state!!!

EDIT: see Gene's post at #35

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...3&postcount=35

[n2k]

Planned Counter strike, I love it.

[FordFreak]

Originally Posted by oaklander

All hope is not lost. Do not move out of the state!!!

That was my first thought. This is the last straw. If I'd have seen all the crap like this coming, I'd have never moved back here when I got out of the service. I hate the politics of my home state

[andrewj]

Well that's comforting

[AEC1]

I hope it is good. I own a home on the other coast, I am so ready to move....

[hill billy]

Originally Posted by FordFreak

That was my first thought. This is the last straw. If I'd have seen all the crap like this coming, I'd have never moved back here when I got out of the service. I hate my home state

I am with you. I hope CGF strikes hard. More money sent.

[Nodda Duma]

I'm very disappointed in this state right now. I am never buying a round of ammunition inside of California again. AB962 just guaranteed that the state never gets revenue from my ammunition purchases.

-Jason

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by oaklander

All hope is not lost. Do not move out of the state!!!

Holy cow, why would I move out of the state? I love this state.

The new law means I just have to visit outside the state to buy ammunition. But I can still come back.

Originally Posted by Nodda Duma

I'm very disappointed in this state right now. I am never buying a round of ammunition inside of California again. AB962 just guaranteed that the state never gets revenue from my ammunition purchases.

My plan too.

[MrSigmaDOT40]

i'm not buying the SS/Soviet fingerprint ammo either

[MrSigmaDOT40]

I also expect matches and shoots to take a massive kick in the nutz after this law kicks in, it won't even be fun to shoot here anymore. I will have to make out of state trips to sustain me while i'm saving and preping to move.

[Mitch]

It's not a bad law at all. It means I will visit my parents more often.

[Cal-Irish]

This is pathetic. I have lost a lot or faith in people. Logic and reason seem to have been completely brushd aside in California.

The state is sinking and the big wigs do nothing but pass petty bills...prior to this bill I had motr hope.

[yellowfin]

I wish I could hope for this action having personal consequences to those responsible for 962's passing.

[rkt88edmo]

"Thats it, we're moving out of state and would like to announce the Nevadaguns Foundation"

[PatriotnMore]

Once again, we are relegated to the position of reaction, and defense. The dog chasing its tail seems to be the norm for 2A crowd.

If we do not vote out those who are ruining this state financially, and constitutionally, you will see more and more of your freedoms, and money that rightfully belong to you, given to the state, of which, it is not theirs to take.

Vote out ALL the incumbents, send a message loud and clear.

[thempopresense]

can a FOIA request be submitted to see how many people called to oppose or support a specific bill? I would be interested to see the stats.

[oaklander]

What we have planned is much better than that. . .

Originally Posted by thempopresense

can a FOIA request be submitted to see how many people called to oppose or support a specific bill? I would be interested to see the stats.

[obeygiant]

Eagerly awaiting an action plan

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by thempopresense

can a FOIA request be submitted to see how many people called to oppose or support a specific bill? I would be interested to see the stats.

I think we all know what the stats are. It wasn't pro-ban people who were jamming the lines and ringing the phone off the hook.

I hope this is a lesson for political neophytes that grassroots action can only accomplish so much. Especially with term-limited offices, elected representatives needn't respond to organized and noisy public sentiment at all. I've seen it with my own eyes at city council meetings.

The only reliable way to work city councils, county boards and state legislatures is behind the scenes.

Phones and e-mails don't work.

[gd-bh]

Originally Posted by oaklander

What we have planned is much better than that. . .

I think given this defeat, that plan needs to be shared asap...If you want to retain credibility as an organization to those who matter most: your supporters, especially after a statement like that, quickly sharing a well conceived plan of action is critical.

[hill billy]

Originally Posted by gd-bh

I think given this defeat, that plan needs to be shared asap...If you want to retain credibility as an organization to those who matter most: your supporters, especially after a statement like that, quickly sharing a well conceived plan of action is critical.

So you would rather a plan be exposed, possibly giving those who would oppose it time and means to form a plan against it to satisfy your curiosity? I am as upset as everyone else but I am sure the CGF has earned enough respect that when they say they are going to do something, they ought to be believed.

[Cal-Irish]

Ill see this super plan when I believe it.

[dirtnap]

Originally Posted by Cal-Irish

Ill see this super plan when I believe it.

+10

[Blacktail 8541]

Originally Posted by FordFreak

That was my first thought. This is the last straw. If I'd have seen all the crap like this coming, I'd have never moved back here when I got out of the service. I hate the politics of my home state

This ^^^^^. I'm sorry I ever moved back to this state. But if the CGF can mount an effective counter strike it will give me good reason to open my wallet even more . This bill effects me very little personally, but it does effect a lot people that have no choice but to buy ammo or bullets.

[oaklander]

It's no big secret, Gene has alluded to it before. But it's not my place to share it, since I do not have approval from the rest of the board.

I just wanted to post SOMETHING so that people would know that we are on top of this.

[ltspongebob]

Originally Posted by Mitch

It's not a bad law at all. It means I will visit my parents more often.

It's a bad law and all. It means I will visit my parents more often.


Sponge

[freonr22]

So, to sum it up, Gene is an allusionist

[gd-bh]

Originally Posted by hill billy

So you would rather a plan be exposed, possibly giving those who would oppose it time and means to form a plan against it to satisfy your curiosity? I am as upset as everyone else but I am sure the CGF has earned enough respect that when they say they are going to do something, they ought to be believed.

No, what I'm saying is that if CGF is truly the force that we all wish it to be, they have already planned for this outcome, and should already be executing said plan. I have seen some awesome things from those who are leading this war, but given the exposure, the likelihood of defeat, and the lead time, it is not unreasonable that this should be happening.

My curiosity isn't the issue really, it's the credibility of the organization that wants to take the lead in the fight here in the peoples republik. I think the general readership is not going to be very tolerant of the "trust us, all in due time" approach to any encroachment on our 2A rights. My comment is simply that time is of the essence, and has nothing negative concerning the past good works of the fine people who work within GCF.

[oaklander]

We actually started this about a two months ago. But there is strategic advantage in not letting the whole world know what we are doing.

Originally Posted by gd-bh

No, what I'm saying is that if CGF is truly the force that we all wish it to be, they have already planned for this outcome, and should already be executing said plan. I have seen some awesome things from those who are leading this war, but given the exposure, the likelihood of defeat, and the lead time, it is not unreasonable that this should be happening.

My curiosity isn't the issue really, it's the credibility of the organization that wants to take the lead in the fight here in the peoples republik. I think the general readership is not going to be very tolerant of the "trust us, all in due time" approach to any encroachment on our 2A rights. My comment is simply that time is of the essence, and has nothing negative concerning the past good works of the fine people who work within GCF.

[hill billy]

Originally Posted by gd-bh

No, what I'm saying is that if CGF is truly the force that we all wish it to be, they have already planned for this outcome, and should already be executing said plan. I have seen some awesome things from those who are leading this war, but given the exposure, the likelihood of defeat, and the lead time, it is not unreasonable that this should be happening.

My curiosity isn't the issue really, it's the credibility of the organization that wants to take the lead in the fight here in the peoples republik. I think the general readership is not going to be very tolerant of the "trust us, all in due time" approach to any encroachment on our 2A rights. My comment is simply that time is of the essence, and has nothing negative concerning the past good works of the fine people who work within GCF.

I understand.

Man, I am pissed off this morning.

[ANDREWMENDEZ]

OAKLANDER, Should we start donating more or to somewhere else?

[oaklander]

I do not like to ask for donations. That being said, we can use the money - there is a fight brewing.

Originally Posted by ANDREWMENDEZ

OAKLANDER, Should we start donating more or to somewhere else?

[WokMaster1]

Gene for Governor!!!!


I knew it.

[hoffmang]

All,

The regulation of internet delivery of ammunition as drafted in AB-962 is preeempted by the Federal Aviation Administration Authorization Act of 1994.

AB-962 Regulates The Routes and Services of Common Carriers

AB-962 creates a misdemeanor in a proposed Penal Code §12318 for not following the appropriate steps for “delivery . . .of handgun ammunition”. The bill goes on to state that deliveries may “only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the deliverer . . . being provided bona fide evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee.” However, the bill exempts law enforcement agencies, sworn police officers, ammunition manufacture/importers, “handgun ammunition vendors” as defined in the statute, and certain firearms collectors. As such, common carriers will now have to make modifications to their rates and services in an attempt to ascertain whether delivering a package marked ORM-D to any given address is allowed, or is punishable as a crime.

This requirement on a common carrier’s service is particularly difficult for carriers where a retail establishment meets the definition of a “handgun ammunition vendor” under the act but is not otherwise a Federal Firearms Licensee. These retailers are exempted from the non-delivery requirement but there is no documentation proving that such a recipient is exempt. Many “big box” retailers in California sell ammunition but do not sell firearms .

Even if an alternate narrower statutory construction is followed, on the face of the proposed law, common carriers would have to attempt to obtain evidence of identity to comply with proposed Penal Code §12318(a), which is clearly a state law that has a substantial impact on a carrier’s service.

Regulation of the Routes or Services of Common Carriers is Federally Preempted

Federal preemption of the routes, rates, or services of common motor carriers is found in 49 U. S. C. §14501(c)(1):

(1) General rule. Except as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3), a State, political subdivision of a State, or political authority of 2 or more States may not enact or enforce a law, regulation, or other provision having the force and effect of law related to a price, route, or service of any motor carrier (other than a carrier affiliated with a direct air carrier covered by section 41713 (b)(4)) or any motor private carrier, broker, or freight forwarder with respect to the transportation of property.

Additional Federal preemption for common carriers was enacted in the Federal Aviation Administration Authorization Act of 1994 (“FAAAA”) and was codified in 49 U.S.C. § 41713:

§ 41713. Preemption of authority over prices, routes, and service

(a) Definition. In this section, “State” means a State, the District of Columbia, and a territory or possession of the United States.

(b) Preemption.
(1) Except as provided in this subsection, a State, political subdivision of a State, or political authority of at least 2 States may not enact or enforce a law, regulation, or other provision having the force and effect of law related to a price, route, or service of an air carrier that may provide air transportation under this subpart.
…
(4) Transportation by air carrier or carrier affiliated with a direct air carrier.—
(A) General rule.— Except as provided in subparagraph (B), a State, political subdivision of a State, or political authority of 2 or more States may not enact or enforce a law, regulation, or other provision having the force and effect of law related to a price, route, or service of an air carrier or carrier affiliated with a direct air carrier through common controlling ownership when such carrier is transporting property by aircraft or by motor vehicle (whether or not such property has had or will have a prior or subsequent air movement).

The Supreme Court Unanimously Ruled That Laws That Regulate Delivery By Common Carriers Are Preempted

In 2008, the Supreme Court ruled 9-0 that a Maine statute that placed limitations on the delivery of cigarettes was preempted by the FAAAA. That statute is very similar to the restrictions on delivery found in AB-962 .

In Rowe v. New Hampshire Motor Transport Association, 128 S. Ct. 989 (2008) the court found that a requirement for shippers to choose a special shipment method and that a carrier would be deemed to have knowledge that shipment had prohibited tobacco products in it were both preempted by Federal Law. Maine attempted to defend the regulation by claiming that there was a public health exception to the FAAAA. The court replied to that argument as follows:

Maine’s inability to find significant support for some kind of “public health” exception is not surprising. “Public health” does not define itself. Many products create “public health” risks of differing kind and degree. To accept Maine’s justification in respect to a rule regulating services would legitimate rules regulating routes or rates for similar public health reasons. And to allow Maine directly to regulate carrier services would permit other States to do the same. Given the number of States through which carriers travel, the number of products, the variety of potential adverse public health effects, the many different kinds of regulatory rules potentially available, and the difficulty of finding a legal criterion for separating permissible from impermissible public-health-oriented regulations, Congress is unlikely to have intended an implicit general “public health” exception broad enough to cover even the shipments at issue here.

(Id. at 997.)

There is not an equivalent “public safety” exception to the FAAAA to allow AB-962 either.

AB-962, as written, is preempted by the FAAAA.

We have already done initial planning regarding plaintiffs and counsel for this case. We have time as the law does not take effect until February of 2011.

-Gene

[devildog999]

All this crap in our state, not just gun stuff but everything, really makes we want to go to Colorado

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by hill billy

I understand.

Man, I am pissed off this morning.

Let it turn man, let it turn.


We all are angry as hell.

It is wrong to treat us like criminals.
It is wrong to limit where we buy ammo from.
It is wrong to LIE to people that this will stop crime.


This isn't over. Not by a longshot.

[8-Ball]

Originally Posted by devildog999

All this crap in our state, not just gun stuff but everything, really makes we want to go to Colorado

Colorado is right on the heels of California regarding 2A...

That state is moving at light speed toward liberalism...

[FortCourageArmory]

Gene,
You are this ammo vendor's hero. If I could vote for you for something , I sure would.

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by 8-Ball

Colorado is right on the heels of California regarding 2A...

That state is moving at light speed toward liberalism...

Yep

California poison bleeds into the rest of the nation.

Makes it even more important we fight it here, you can run, but it will follow you.