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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 04-12-2005, 4:58 PM
pipskicks pipskicks is offline
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I have seen many people talk about how the .50 cal has never been used in a crime in either CAlifornia or the whole United States, does anyone have the actual data for this?

I am writing an opinion article in my school newspaper, this is why I ask...
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Old 04-13-2005, 7:50 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cg:
Just think, have you heard of anyone ever being killed by a .50 bmg? There is your answer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm, yes.
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Old 04-13-2005, 7:46 PM
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Those spent round were probably from the Federal agents themselves.
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Old 04-12-2005, 9:07 PM
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Just think, have you heard of anyone ever being killed by a .50 bmg? There is your answer.
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Old 04-12-2005, 9:29 PM
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Well there isn't any information because there hasn't been any recorded case of a .50 caliber BMG rifle used in any crime or instance. None what so ever. Here's a couple quotes that might help you make up your decision, remember I never said it, they did.

"They can pierce the skin of an aircraft," said Daniel R. Vice, a lawyer with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, a central supporter of the law. "It could be used to shoot down an airplane. And we certainly don't want to wait until a terrorist buys one before we ban it."

Any kind of round can basically pierce the skin of an aircraft. Besides a single bullet hole won't destroy the plane and if I am correct the single hole won't cause a huge disruption like you see in movies. That is complete BS.

Also just to think about this, imagine how many rounds of .50 cal it took for a fighter plane in WWII to bring down another plane. It would take at least a couple hundred rounds, not to mention explosive and incendiary rounds are illegal for civilian use in the U.S., also not to mention how difficult (in fact impossible) to shoot down a moving plane with a single shot .50 caliber. If you don't believe me, do some research around it. Firearms experts tend to be more knowledgable than politicians and lobbyists.
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Old 04-13-2005, 10:20 AM
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I've always seem to hear "a 50 cal was used in Waco Texas".

This is so untrue. No 50 cal rifle was ever recovered in the rubble of Waco, just some spent rounds. The rifle must have magically disappeared.
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Old 04-15-2005, 8:58 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pipskicks:
I have seen many people talk about how the .50 cal has never been used in a crime in either CAlifornia or the whole United States, does anyone have the actual data for this?

I am writing an opinion article in my school newspaper, this is why I ask... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just curious... which way will your bias lean? You said it was an opinion piece, right?
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Old 04-13-2005, 7:27 AM
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And, broadening the spectrum, there's probably been one or two uses of something like a Desert Eagle in .50AE...

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Old 04-15-2005, 10:10 AM
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OK, after quite a few searches, I was able to find references to two distinct crimes, during the course of which, a .50 caliber weapon was actually fired. In one case, it didn't cause any reported damage.

But in the attack on an armored car in Chamblee Georgia, a .50 was used as the principle weapon to assault the armored car. Funny thing too, the guy charged was a local SWAT cop, gone bad. The very SWAT cop who'd instigated having his unit buy the very .50 weapon that was used in the crime. Ironic isn't it. Cop uses duty weapon illegally.
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Old 04-15-2005, 9:02 AM
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I've been doing some research on this issue, and while I find it amusing, it doesn't surprise me.

The GAO report tries to answer the question "Are .50 caliber semiautomatic rifles associated with criminal activity?", yet it doesn't. It uses guilt by association to imply that possession of .50 caliber rifles is a problem even if they're not actually used in a crime. This is equivalent to saying cars are a "problem" because most criminals possess one.

The report concludes "We have established a nexus to terrorist
groups, outlaw motorcycle gangs, international drug cartels, domestic drug dealers, religious cults, militia groups, potential assassins, and violent criminals." Wow! To make such a conclusion based on only 18 cases is certainly a stretch. And motorcycle gangs! How do motorcycle gang members tote .50 around on a motorcycle? On a sling? In a scabbard?

The most handwringing criticism of .50s that I've seen is the claim they can be used to shoot down commercial airliners. One wonders how they've come to this conclusion. Many WWII fighters were armed with 4-8 .50 caliber Browning machine guns, and it still took multiple passes and several second bursts to bring down large bombers, which are the rough equivalent of a modern airliner. To expect a terrorist to shoot down an airliner travelling at several hundred miles an hour with a single-shot .50 is about equivalent to winning the lottery.

Assuming a terrorist is lucky enough to hit a plane, causing a crash is far from a foregone conclusion. Anyone who believes otherwise has probably seen too many movies where a single shot inside a plane causes explosive decompression and sucks half the passengers through the gaping hole before the plane crashes in a ball of fire. The truth is, a single (or even several) .50" hole in the fuselage of a modern airliner is easily compensated for by the plane's cabin pressure control system. Explosive decompression is a myth.
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Old 04-15-2005, 9:21 AM
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There are 2 examples of it actually being fired on this web-site.

They list about a dozen "crimes" but as mentioned before, most of them are like, they found one amongst the effects of the criminal.

But they do list 2 where they allege the crimial shot it.

I haven't corroborated it yet.

http://www.vpc.org/snipercrime.htm
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Old 04-15-2005, 12:05 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The very SWAT cop who'd instigated having his unit buy the very .50 weapon that was used in the crime. Ironic isn't it. Cop uses duty weapon illegally. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, very ironic. A cop gone bad was also involved in the only known case of a registered machine gun used in a crime since the NFA was passed 70 years ago.
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Old 04-12-2005, 11:39 PM
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Actually, I think 50's have been used 3 or 4 times in crime. Usually not the primary weapon involved. If I'm not mistaken, that Colorado (did I get the state right) tractor dude had a .50 BMG in the tractor but didn't actually fire it.
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Old 04-14-2005, 9:54 AM
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See if you can locate the following document:

“Weaponry: .50 Caliber Rifle Crime”, Report no. OSI-99-15R, revised Oct. 21, 2001, published by the General Accounting Office, which can be found here.

According to this report, there have been 18 cases of .50's used in crime. Most of these cases are bogus in that the .50 was found during subsequent searches, but not actually fired. The only case cited where a .50 was allegedly fired was the Waco incident.
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Old 04-12-2005, 4:58 PM
pipskicks pipskicks is offline
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I have seen many people talk about how the .50 cal has never been used in a crime in either CAlifornia or the whole United States, does anyone have the actual data for this?

I am writing an opinion article in my school newspaper, this is why I ask...
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  #16  
Old 04-14-2005, 1:20 PM
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Durring the Waco incident I remember hearing that one of the reasons the BATF obtained a warrant was the transfer of a Browning M2 across State lines without the right paperwork/tax being paid.
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Old 04-13-2005, 9:18 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Technical Ted:
By a civilian with a semi-auto or bolt action .50 BMG rifle </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not by a civilian.
Most were actually M2 50 BMG Machine guns.
A few with the Barretts as well.
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