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CGSSA Range Cleanups Schedule dates and time to clean up outdoor ranges. If we don't who will?

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  #41  
Old 11-05-2009, 6:03 PM
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According to the letter JK4three quoted:

"Orosco will be open for shooting this Saturday."
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  #42  
Old 11-06-2009, 12:57 PM
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I can see where this one is going. Thanks to all the inconsiderate people who left their trash out there, we'll very likely lose one of the last public shooting areas in san diego now.

This makes it all the more important for those of us who *do* go out there on even an infrequent basis to bring home more trash than we came with. The inconsiderate asshats will always be there, but the more responsible of us need to pick up the slack trash for those who are too lazy to do so.

As an added bonus, you drive *right past* the Ramona landfill on the way in/out. Convenient, innit? Consider the $30 you spend to dump a load of shooting range waste a usage fee for the area. Even if everyone with a truck did this *once* per season, it'd be a whole lot better off.

And for all you who leave your trash out there (and you know who you are):

CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELVES, YOU SLOBS.

</rant>

*sigh*
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  #43  
Old 11-06-2009, 1:18 PM
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Yeah....this is the line that's going to kill this place-

Further, I want you all to know that the Forest Service goes into this management review with no bias towards or against the use of the area for shooting.

You know damn well, it's going to play a part in the outcome..
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  #44  
Old 11-06-2009, 1:21 PM
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Default Maybe it's not so bad...

Based on the Ranger's verbiage, it sounds as if she has a good feeling about us taking on the cleanup. She's in the ol' Government bind. If she lets us go out there and someone (remember, this is Kalifornia) decides to sue over the OSHA violation, her head and position on the ladder of success may suffer. I wouldn't tell her to do something with such repercussions.

But it does sound like she isn't against us. And, in the meantime, it wouldn't hurt to haul something out every time we go in.

John
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  #45  
Old 11-06-2009, 5:11 PM
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Littlejohn -

I had a conversation with the Ranger and I posted her cancelation notice. I think her action to cancel the cleanup was unwarrented. There have been many successful cleanups, including Orosco in the past, and she alone decided to cancel with less than a week to go. She said she could have issued a warning and had us sign a waver, but decided against this. So, we as adults, were not given the option.

Additionally she said Orosco will be reviewed, likely in January, for an expensive contracted cleanup (her words) including bringing in topsoil to cover the existing soil and maybe a pay to shoot set up like San Bernadino. To me this more likely means closure.

Bottom line, we could have made a difference, yet we were not give the chance, by one persons decision (Kalifornia style). Read any motive here? Anyone want to debate the chance of lead poisoning from a one day cleanup - damn near zero for an adult.

Call, write and complain.
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  #46  
Old 11-06-2009, 7:03 PM
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Wow, was somebody advocating doing lead reclamation during the cleanup? I find the language of this letter somewhat troubling. Once they determine that they need to "Manage" the area better, then they can say they don't have the budget to do so. Since they can't afford the manpower, the only alternative will be to close the site. Doesn't look good from my point of view.
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  #47  
Old 11-06-2009, 7:57 PM
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My feeling is that Orosco is basically done within the next year.

It definitely wasn't a place I go to shoot, only went once and that was enough for me - but as it's still one of the few open areas available here, it'll be a shame to lose it.
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  #48  
Old 11-06-2009, 8:06 PM
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Us Calgunners can be a resourceful lot as seen by the AB585/SB962 efforts. This should be no different. I have access to dust masks, respirators, tyvek suits, etc. I'm sure that there are others on this forum that have the same or simular resources and training. We can make this happen with the right planning. Lead particulates aren't particularly small and are easily protected against.
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  #49  
Old 11-07-2009, 6:11 AM
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Im stil going......to shoot....and ill pick up some trash by my own free will.
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  #50  
Old 11-07-2009, 10:16 AM
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JK4Three and taloft, my thinking is similar.

First, let me share my utter disgust and complete lack of surprise that this ruinous combination of approaches (top-down/nanny state, absurd over-reaction to "threats" from brief exposure to certain toxic items) has pre-empted effective action by responsible citizens.

Second, it's hard to see, in today's surreal America and beyond-surreal CA, that this doesn't mean closure.

Given the idiotic premises, what's the escape from this chain:

* too toxic to walk around and pick up trash with gloves, must be too toxic to walk around shooting

* too dangerous to let citizens clean it up for free

* no money to contract for a wildly over-cautious clean-up

* therefore, must close the area

Just to cap it off, how outrageous is it that despite the willingness of Americans to step up and get something done (see PurpleK's great post above), the idiocy of some users (those trashing the place) and the collapse of common sense and other qualities in public administration will likely doom yet another small amenity to the SD community?
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  #51  
Old 11-07-2009, 1:40 PM
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Quote:
the District is undertaking a management review of Orosco Ridge Target Shooting Area as we do feel that it needs to be better managed.
Translation - We will determine that the best way to manage this area is to shut it down!
Quote:
Unfortunately, we cannot simply provide masks to mitigate exposure as this would be a violation of OSHA requirements.
This is BS - the O in OSHA stands for "Occupational" No one is doing this as part of their occupation. I love the way our government agencies like to play loose and fancy with the laws when it helps them. Just try it when it will help you and see how that goes. She could easily have her staff draft an informed consent/hold harmless type of waiver with some realistic basic guidlines for cleaning up safely. She doesn't want all of these "gunnies" to look good and proactive when she closes the area.
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  #52  
Old 11-07-2009, 2:33 PM
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If we don't tell them that we're doing a clean up, and we don't ask them to provide a dumpster, and we just happen to show up with a few pick-up trucks, and we do a bit of cleaning up they'll be none the wiser.
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  #53  
Old 11-07-2009, 7:39 PM
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I say clean it or have it closed... So can you blame the antis for us tearing up the landscape... I just posted a rant about this... CLEAN fast as you can so it stays open.

Just show up with bags and people and do it... No guns so they never know you were there. When they come to "review" they are like "huh weird it is good, all gone huh nothing to see here"
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  #54  
Old 11-07-2009, 8:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seesm View Post
I say clean it or have it closed... So can you blame the antis for us tearing up the landscape... I just posted a rant about this... CLEAN fast as you can so it stays open.

Just show up with bags and people and do it... No guns so they never know you were there. When they come to "review" they are like "huh weird it is good, all gone huh nothing to see here"
"Stealth Mode"
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  #55  
Old 11-08-2009, 9:32 AM
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I'm new to shooting, first year I've bought a gun, first year at Orosco. To me this is worth a letter to Forestry Service supervisors. This cleanup was initiated in the summer and could have drawn over +50 volunteers who could have loaded out a couple hundred pounds each. We got canceled with less than a week to go and never got the chance to make a significant difference. The reasons were "Osha" (which doesn't apply) and "Health and Safety" (addressable by a simple waiver). We did not need FS help, just a day of closure and a couple of dumpsters. FWIW I will find out who to write to and post it on Calguns. It would be good for everyone else to do the same, also bring out more trash and I would suggest a sign at the gate: "Orosco Will Close If Trash Is Not Packed Out".
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  #56  
Old 11-08-2009, 9:40 AM
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Jk4Three - I like your approach. I'll certainly add my own letter when you ID the appropriate addressee.

Also, I've not yet been to Orosco (the clean-up was going to be my introduction), but does the layout and terrain allow for an "informal" clean-up to take place? That is, a day on which a large number of us clean up specific areas in an organized way, without fear of being the line of fire for those using their bullet-launchers? If so, we could "stealth" clean the place, sector by sector.

I also endorse the sign idea. Of course it will be peppered with bullet holes in no time, correct? By the same idiots who are the problem here to begin with.

Aside from this, some others above have suggested something that is similar to what scuba divers do in some heavily-dived and abused reef areas. They pursue their recreation, while at the same time bringing up/out any trash they find. Seems that approach - bring out three large trash bags every time you visit, add nothing yourself to the mess - should have an effect, if 90% of people take that route. I'm not familiar with the mess out there - paper/cardboard/plastic trash sounds easy, but I'm not sure about machinery, heavier wood items, etc.

Maybe a slight tweak on the sign idea would be "Please Take Two Bags and Pack Out Your Trash Plus Somebody Else's to Keep Orsosco Open" with a couple of boxes of large trash bags left there in a plastic trash can for people to use. Perhaps impractical for lots of reasons - just trying to come up with solutions here.
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  #57  
Old 11-08-2009, 7:13 PM
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Sorry for the unavoidable late response.

I think it's a great idea to try to clean up Orosco Ridge on our own. I mentioned the signage issue to the BLM and was told it would be discussed.

In the meantime, I will keep in touch with Joan Friedlander and try to let her know how we at CGs feel about keeping Orosco Ridge open.

Thanks, Karl
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  #58  
Old 11-08-2009, 8:51 PM
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[QUOTE=loather;3324809]
And for all you who leave your trash out there (and you know who you are):

CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELVES, YOU SLOBS.

</rant>

Amen to that. I'm tired of seeing things that shouldn't even be out there: bowling pins, propane tanks, TVs, computers. You go through all that trouble to haul it up there to shoot at it and you don't even have the common courtesy of picking it back up and throwing it away? Idiots.
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  #59  
Old 11-08-2009, 9:32 PM
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Wented up there to shoot today, Area where we shot at was a mess, shotgun shell everywhere, what's so hard about raking the shell in a pile and put it in a bag?? before we left, we picked about 5 bag of shotgun shell and some wood.
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  #60  
Old 11-09-2009, 10:53 AM
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Went out today. First time there. It was a mess. A great area to shoot though. I took out 2 30gal trash bags, and a trash bin weighing about 200 lbs of computers and monitors. This stuff is gonna kill this place. Not only is there a lead problem but computers have mercury in them I believe. I felt like I was doing a good deed, but honestly I barely made a dent in the site I was parked at. This place needs what I did, about 50 times a day, for months.
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  #61  
Old 11-13-2009, 4:25 PM
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Is there a way a bunch of us could just get together and do it with out the involvement of the FS. I mean if we all meet there before the place even opened up one morning and we all drove up and took up a bunch of spots we could just load up and be gone.

Any other ideas?
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  #62  
Old 11-13-2009, 5:27 PM
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I may go out there tomorrow morning to shoot some .22 and try out my new shotgun. If I go I'll spend some time cleaning up what I can get in a reasonable time and fit into the trunk of my car.
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  #63  
Old 11-14-2009, 7:05 PM
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1) There's got to be some kind of forum where we can speak up about this. Public comment periods, etc. We need to find out who is talking about Orosco Ridge and when, and then spread the word to get as many of us as possible to attend, or send letters.

2) If an "unofficial" cleanup is planned, someone please post to the SDShooting list. I'd want to know about it.
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  #64  
Old 11-14-2009, 10:57 PM
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SD shooting list?
link please
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  #65  
Old 11-15-2009, 6:32 PM
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count me in, but my schedule is weird. I can only go up there on Mondays and wednesdays. I don't want to be there on a weekend anyway. I hear it gets crowded. If you drive a truck, just bring a few garbage bags with you. It really doesn't take long to fill a couple bags. There is soooo much trash.
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Old 11-16-2009, 1:59 PM
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Question:

What is the best approach to help cleanup the range? Should we try small cleanup crews with guys and pickup trucks? Or do we want to try and get a big cleaning party going? Assuming we can get calguns supporters involved, what kind of equipment would we need? 10 or 40 yard container?

Can we realistically make a dent against the hundreds of idiots that cart in all the trash but refuse to cart it out? I agree we need to do something. Kitchen creek was a lot of fun until they closed it down. I'd love to post something explaining the situation, but the damn idiots would probably just shoot the damn sign.
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  #67  
Old 11-17-2009, 9:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CmpsdNoMore View Post
SD shooting list?
link please
Not sure if this is what you're looking for but here you go:

http://shooting.forsandiego.com/Ranges.html#orsa
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Old 11-17-2009, 9:26 AM
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We try to pack out some trash whenever we go to a range, but we almost never have room for much in our smallish SUV. Once we pack our stuff- chairs, targets, tables etc, there is room for a couple of large trash bags.

Sounds like this place needs a dump truck or a couple of commercial size dumpsters.

Unfortunately, if there are a lot of monitors and such, the rules have changed about dumping them. Perhaps the landfill has the facilities to handle it.
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  #69  
Old 11-19-2009, 5:14 PM
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Problem is we need Ranger support to close the range to shooting for the day, or even half day. I get nervous just changing my targets let alone walking around with a bag and a rake with bullets flying. Also, having a dumpster provided by the forest service is nice too.

I'm going to write a letter. I'll post a copy later and provide contact addresses if anyone else wants to do the same. A sign at the gate to Orosco could help some too.
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Old 12-11-2009, 1:32 PM
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Hope there is movement on this. I'd make the drive down.
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  #71  
Old 12-15-2009, 10:22 AM
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I will talk to the ranger next time i see her, the lady i have seen there seems to be nice but a little slow. I just wish they would open up the dump right there and i could make a couple of trips since it is so close.
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  #72  
Old 12-21-2009, 2:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Getoffthecomputer View Post
Went out today. First time there. It was a mess. A great area to shoot though. I took out 2 30gal trash bags, and a trash bin weighing about 200 lbs of computers and monitors. This stuff is gonna kill this place. Not only is there a lead problem but computers have mercury in them I believe. I felt like I was doing a good deed, but honestly I barely made a dent in the site I was parked at. This place needs what I did, about 50 times a day, for months.
Thanks for the great effort!!! Mercury and lead, just like asbestos are naturally occuring elements. Just don't eat the dirt or debri and you should be fine.
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  #73  
Old 12-23-2009, 6:29 PM
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Any Update on this? I'm willing to volunteer some time to get this area cleaned up.... Why not just set up a meet-up and "Occupy" One of the shooting area's/chutes and clean it up. One area at a time and eventually we can get it all cleaned.
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  #74  
Old 12-23-2009, 7:18 PM
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I was up there last Friday and was amazed at how horrible it looked. I took out three huge trash bags of stuff in my SUV. I want to get my f250 with 8' bed up there with some help from fellow hobbyists and see if I can fill it up with trash. If I can get up there in the next two weeks over the holidays with the truck I will let people know on this board so I can get some assistance.
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  #75  
Old 12-23-2009, 7:38 PM
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Monday or Tuesdays I'm Available ciscollector, let me know if your going to go. Hopefully more people would be willing to commit and we can get "Unofficial Clean Up going" maybe have a BBQ and clean up party. Like i said 1 shooting chute at a time and it will get cleaned for the time being. I will even leave a little sign, "Cleaned by your Friends @ Calguns.net" (Who cares if they shoot the sign.)
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  #76  
Old 12-23-2009, 10:10 PM
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having a clean up meet sound good!! give me a week or 2 in notice and I can gather a few friend and join the cleaning party.
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